Q&A: Crafting

nope ^^ early armor looks real bad.

if they have no stats for what i need it them

you destroy the economy economy even if you hate no demand, if an item is not used there is no demand.
how you will keep up economy if no one is using the items because they will save it ?
you can use the same argument for and against it, depending on the view. everything has its advantages and disadvantages.

you cant only say if a item broken and you cant repair it, that this promote the economy.

the disadvantage is that people save often their weapons/armor/etc. and that we need to grinding all the time to make a new weapon. a casual player has as example not the time to build every few days a new weapon & armor.


correct :smile:


this idea is nice, and has the effect that people get encouraged to level their profession

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This is also something I wondered. As far as I understand it, you could walk around naked except for the stat rings and still be as good as someone with a full armor.
Which means the priority to get armor is for most people very low.

I think this is not what they want. They want to have people specializing in weapon and armor crafting so thereā€™s a supply of these things. Then the casual player can just buy what they need to replace instead of having to make it themselves.

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IĀ“m just afraid that that this will render cosmetic wearables completely useless.
Weapons->need (a lot) materials -> get you a benefit
Wearables-> need materials-> no benefit

So who would bother wasting his/her precious materials for cosmetic stuff instead of keeping a stock of good weapons?


IĀ“m with @Saint_X here as I also think that complete destruction of equipment would encourage players to save their equipment which could rather cripple the economy than fueling it.
IĀ“m sticking to it: Please make the base weapon indestructible and only let the attached mods wear out since IĀ“m already now annoyed by the thought of constantly carrying around 2-3 different melee + ranged weapons as back up (just like in Minecraft).

@olliepurkiss
Could you tell us what have youĀ“ve planned for the typical lifespan of a wearable/weapon? Would be quite interesting to know whether we are talking about hours, days or weeks.

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?


Yup totally horribleā€¦

Pretyfying your stuff, non stat armor is probably going to hold longer than the rings and such.

But the item breaking reates the demand? If an item never broke there would be demand at first htat would quickly dwindle into nothing as no players would need a new weapon or armor.

By making so that the items you get from using the item has a higher value than the item itself, fighting a Titan for example would probably be impossible with no armor and gear, meaning that people would use it for that, getting materials by hunting wild animals would be close to impossible without the right weapons so you would use it for that. Do you stop in mincraft somethimes and think ā€œmaybe I should not waste my expensive diamond pickaxe on gathering stoneā€? most people donā€™t because the staggering amount of 1562 stone is often worth the time it takes to collect 3 diamonds anyway.

People will use their items because it gives a possetive economic outcome.

Well apaarently I can and back it up with arguments even

Now we have been given no timeframe of the amount of time it would take to make an armor or a weapons.

We havenā€™t even been given a timefram of the amount of time it would take it to break, it could take a full week.

Furthermore the casual and hardcore player would need to use the same percentage of time reparing their stuff, as the hardcore players would destroy it faster.

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At the moment you only need gear aka rings for the stats. Armor would be useless in a fight with anything.

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Yeah that was what I meant, it is hard to remeber using hte correct terms :wink:

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I think that a lot of the details we are speculating on are yet to be revealed, and I think things will work out better than we may think based on this limited information. A lot of concerns being raised here can be addressed well enough with simple fine tuning of durability values relative to the value of the crafting components. This is a game centered around gathering and trading, after all. I donā€™t think materials will be so hard to come by that people just stop consuming armor or weapons.

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still the same question, for what i need a armor with no stats. they hold longer ? i need no armor who has only higher durability

  • new player needs new weaopons/armor
  • new characters need new weapons/armor
  • trying something new(instead range gameplay try melee as examnple), need new weapons/armor
  • you need new & better weapons

in guild wars i have 3 or 4 diffrent weapons still because other stats, there are many reasons why player needs new weapons not only because durability

i never play minecraft, but i play guild wars. and yes i stopped mining often because thisy because i had not so much money over.

which argument

thats true, here we need more information.

i love hardcore gaming, but i hate it if i must grinding 5-6 day`s a week that i can play 1 day still because the durability. i love grinding some days but not i it more time as the rest of the game.

correct, but if we need only the rings why we should build than a armor, some people will no repair to promote the economy. but if we do not need armor brings exactly the contrary, we prevent the economy it instead of promoting

thats correct, the information we had are limited

i think/hope that not all is easy to get, if all easy we had a game for only casual player like guild wars 2, but we need a game for hardcore and casual player. i like the hardcore raid mode in wow. we need a inducement for the hardcore gamer, and these are normally rare drops, and i think it is bad if the rare drop is broken after 1 week because the durability

The armor gives the players who are interested in looking good the possibilty to look good, if you are not relaly focused on that using rings will be enough, did you even read the acociated dev log?

And when you have one of each weapon type what then? There is nothing more to buy, in Guild wars as well as any other MMORPG you constantly get new wepons and armor because the ones you have become useless it is basically the saem thing.

Dudeā€¦

Which is why I said that it can be balanced a bit lter in the same bloody comment.

It is an estethic item, something you make/gather because you like how it looks, basicalyl the same as collecting and buing dyes in GW2

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Sorry but i gotta say that this doesnĀ“t relate to B<.
Most of the gear in Guild Wars is either a boss drop or sold by a vendor, crafting&trading is negligible (ascended stuff is account bound anyway). This is the exact opposite of what B< is going to be)

ThatĀ“s also one of my biggest concerns. That B< degenerates into a giant grindfest just to be able to have a decent equipment at all times.

Already looking forward to the hilarious sight of dozens of naked players raiding a titan :smile:

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You should really start to read everything and then comment on something.
The way you do it at the moment looks like you really just focus on the text in the quote even if the thing you have to say about that particular part is explained a line or two further down the same post.

Or you say something to an answer which was already about the thing you meant you had to say and you make the conversation go in a circle.

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I think that would be a problem if it happened but I am quite sure that is not what they are going for at all, so I am not really worried about it ^.^

Also everything grind related can be ā€œungrindedā€ with balancing stuff.

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I imagine that itĀ“s going to be quite hard to find a balance between making weapons feel valuable while also keeping the amount of grinding down. Especially since keeping the required amount of materials low could result in inflation of materials.


Another big question regarding durability is whatĀ“s going to drain durability.
Will everything drain durability or will only dying drain durability (death penalty)?

Personally IĀ“d favor if only dying would drain durability. This way you would have at least some influence on it by playing carefully.

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I think weapons, like rings, actually have stats ā€¦ itā€™s just other wearables that wonā€™t have any.

Likewise, Iā€™m now wondering if it will just be items with stats that will have durability. To me it makes no sense to have non-stat wearables break, as theyā€™re purely cosmetic. If they break, people wont bother making them in future.

The keyword here being Almost everything.

Certainly if they ever wanted to create real-money purchasable wearables (not saying that they will), it would make sense to not let wearables wear out.


Honestly, I think I would actually prefer the opposite - it feels more real to have things wear out through actual use. I know comparatively we donā€™t die and come back in real life, so thereā€™s nothing to base the durability penalty on, but the death in game should be penalty enough, as you would spawn back at wherever your home was and would need to get back to where you were. If dropping any items on death is going to be in the final game, that would be a big penalty imo


On a different note, Iā€™m really liking the sound of this part - It sounds like there will be lots to experiment with, all the way through progression!

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I think there might be a misconception present.
With the quoted paragraph I wanted to say that itĀ“s going to hard to accomplish the ā€œDamn I finally finished that awesome weaponā€ feeling while also preventing B< from turning into a grinding game.

I donĀ“t think that high realism is a goal of this game.

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Making the weapons last roughly 10 times longer than they take to make would do that? (Not putting in machine porcessing time)

Iā€™m late to this party here ā€¦ sorry if i bring up old things :smiley:

I like this idea. maybe some parts of a weapon have an other durability than others and the ā€œunbrokenā€ ones could be reused. in other question iā€™m interested on is, if i upgrade a weapon (put some other item on/in it) will it lower or raise the over-all durability ? eg. sword (100 durability) + fire-ore (90 durability) is the outcome a fire-sword (95 durability) or a sword with fire damage (100 durability) or a burning sword (90 durability) ?

completely agree with you here. a lot of this discussion is pure speculation.

when did i said this ? never ā€¦ most of all gw2 armors look like trash. only some T3 culture armors and the ascended + infused fractal back-pack looks fine.

As @Vastar said [quote=ā€œVastar, post:30, topic:4087ā€]
Already looking forward to the hilarious sight of dozens of naked players raiding a titan :smile:
[/quote]
and iā€™m sure this will most likely be normality of wearables break and have no effect at all.

it does not matter at all if i have the economy if i donā€™t care and use my resources for other stuff. your time and your resources are goods that can be spend much better than by making an armor ā€¦ go out and seed new crops, mine a tunnel and gather resources and so on. on the long sights itā€™s a multiplicand and you harm your progression if you make armor so this will be extremely late ā€œend-game-contentā€ if you reached everything else or if you are board like hell i think. if you craft an armor in prior phases of the game you have a drawback against others because you spend / waste resources and time on an item that has no effect.

@olliepurkiss: an other question is ā€œhow do we ā€˜storeā€™ progression at allā€ ? We canā€™t store progression with items because theyā€™ll break. Is the progression store the beacon size or the buildings + machineryā€™s we create ?

i accapt it. in this case iā€™d support vanity skins if they break too.

but i wonā€™t accept that. if you take the lazy way for a vanity skin it should break as fast as all other skins. some invest time and others invest money ($) but the result of the investment should be the same.

i see a problem with the system of breaking items in this case (iā€™m not against breaking items, but itā€™s bothering me in this situation). if everything breaks and if you are in really hard locations / worlds where you canā€™t longer keep up what happens to you ? your armor breaks, you run out of resources and if you have bad luck you canā€™t return to lighter areas because even the step out of your door kills you. i had plenty of situations (in the current sandbox game) where i had my home-spot on an awkward position and i died as i was building ā€¦ i canā€™t even reach the ground or my items without dying ā€¦ this took a lot of time to make it work so that i reached the ground save and without leaving a large puddle of blood.

thatā€™s how i understood it too.

you are right, thatā€™s why i like the idea at all but i see problems at some points like i mentioned before.

iā€™m sure this would be a game-breaker for most of the players. i hope theyā€™ll find a ā€œbalanceā€.

maybe a death could reduce durability ā€œfasterā€ than normal use (eg. instant -10%) but i donā€™t like to see my teammates ā€œrun-awayā€ in boss fights only because they scare to lose their items.

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Sorry that didnā€™t come of clear, the comment was about all armor that does not provide stats not just payshop types :slight_smile:

That is a good point though that problem is more with the system of stuff breaking than the loop itself. ^.^

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Oh okay, so you mean ā€œthe stats break but the skin remainā€ ? Thatā€™s ok if the skins have a higher lifetime than the stats.

iā€™ll correct the wrong wording.

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