Quality Crafting Materials

[KuroKuma]

2 Things, first it’s really interesting that you both called me to negotiate between you xD I really feel honored^^
second, it’s great to see that you could resolve the whole issue without my help^^ Shows that we have a good community.

[Zouls]

I have learned that only the founders can see my way of thinking since you are used to dealing me with being arrogant, rude and honest.

[Heurazio]

@Zouls

I have learned that only the founders can see my way of thinking

Quite sure i’m here as long as you are (but i don’t felt the need to talk a lot the last months … but now things are going forward, so i think it’s time to break the silence) but that’s nothing we should argue about

[Zouls]

@Heurazio

but that’s nothing we should argue about

Nonsense, people should argue about everything, start up their brains with a train of thought, i have found the best suggestions to be those which are made when people are in a heated argument.

[Vastar]

@Havok40k

is simply too grindy

I have too agree with you, although I would not use “grindy”.
In my opinion it is just unintuitive and impractical. As the game is now your inventory is already overfilled with all the different colours of blocks/seeds etc. if the devs would now add different ore rarities to all the different ores we are (probably) going to get mining and crafting would become nothing but a mess.
If the devs would just add a small chance to drop a higher tiered ore it would almost have the same effect but would just need the devs to slightly change some loot tables.

[Heurazio]

I think this should not be a great deal. I don’t expect that they create skins for every item, but stat’s are only numerical values that can be read from a database in no time.

i also think, beacuse B< is a sandbox, it would be cool if we have lots of oportunities with different marerials and not only 5 types and 10 weapons. i think there should be a wide varity of materials and items to craft to catch the sandbox (creating, expoloring) spirit.

the “mess” you mentioned will hopefully be pased with the next update (chests).

[Vastar]

You might have gotten me wrong.
I also hope for a wide variety of materials.
I just don’t think a variety of one material is necessary.

I´d consider having 4 different types of the same ore still as a mess.

[Heurazio]

Yep, ok i got you wrong.

[Thorbjorn42gbf]

We had a talk about different aporoaches to inventory management at some point right?

That should help the problem with multiple different ores.

[Zouls]

Expanding your inventory

This has been discussed a few times on the old forums but i dont think we have anything here. so the discussion is if we should be able to expand our inventory, and if yes then how. first arguments for. we need a standard inventory size that works for everybody, but a miner might need more space for materials while a blacksmith might need more space for equipment, so it would suck if they were limited Against: They should be limited because then people have to live with what they have (bes…

It was also discussed if different colors should stack,and in the end it seemed that the majority wanted that to happen, so i just expected the different rarities to stack if you wanted them to, but even if it didnt, i dont think there should be much of a problem, i think it would actually be better if it didnt stack, makes you think more about what you pick up, however as was mentioned you most likely wont move around with as much stuff as you do now, when we get chests.

[Kalthazar]

I don’t think so.

You’d need to have acquired the skill, and enough resources to do it. On the one hand there would be pride that you’ve brought your character to that ability, on the other hand it would painful to do it, meaning it would make said “epic” sword more valuable, and drive the economy… you wouldn’t sell the sword for a few blocks of meat, it’d COST.

This would also make finding “epic” iron ore, a treasure. It would be like walking in a dlild and finding a gold nugget. Just by itself it would be valuable because it can be used to make an “epic” item without the same skill.

Take away the ability to craft an epic item from common stock, (remove skill requirements, and the resource costs) and you suddenly just have an incredibly rare item (Perhaps even a loadstone: If rare enough other placers may seek you out simply to take it…) and the game suddenly looses depth and just becomes another slugfest to be king-of-the-hill.

[Kalthazar]

@Zouls

the way i read it was that you could directly put in x amount of common ore to make an epic sword instead of having to turn the common ore into uncommon into rare into epic. saying that you should be able to make it with an increased amount, i like the idea of refining the ore with a penalty, i dont like the idea of just using x amount of more common iron ore to make an epic sword (even though they might theoretically the same, for me it just seems less intimidating to say ‘‘you need to use 5 epic ore’’ than it does to say ‘‘you need to use common 5000 iron ore’’)

I didn’t get into the specifics too much as I’m not coding the system… However, to give what I said a bit more meat:
I was thinking… " Okay what makes ‘common ore’ common, as opposed to epic?" To me, I go back to real world examples: the ore bears less of the desired mineral and more impurities… (no need to get into that in-game). However, it does put a framework around the issue and a means to try and model it in a game system.

To convert common ore into epic ingots (you need the epic material to craft an epic item), you’d need:

• know-how (crafting levels)
• a capable process (high quality furnace?)
• lots of the raw material (more common ore to make an epic ingot (20:1?)
• and also more smelting fuel.
• and if the game created slag in the smelting process you’d need to clean the furnace (tend it)

All this means that while anyone “could” convert common ore into epic ingots, it is quite involved and is much easier to simply use epic ore.

Want to make it harder? increase the levels required to convert between each quality type and/or require fine grained skills like “refining” and “forging” and “weapon crafting”, rather than simply “crafting”.

How involved the developers want to make it really ends on the “fun factor” (what the user wants), and balancing.

I don’t have a clear picture of the advancement model to be used, so this is all purely hypothetical, but I think it sufficiently illustrates my point.

Personally, while I found gold, and diamond weapons silly in MC (not to mention the sapphire and obsidian weapons in mods). It didn’t matter that much. The search for diamonds was made worth it by the durability of the weapon (your point). The advancement system didn’t have much depth, but if it did and you could purchase the skills to convert large quantities of dirt (or stone) into a few ingots, it’ve given you something to do with all that junk, and make mining in and of itself less of a chore (even if you did have to cut down more trees).

Thankfully Boundless isn’t MC. and I’m looking forward to depth in the advancement system, and an economy, as well as the appeal of the open-ended “do what you will” sandbox. Crafting an epic weapon should be just one more thing you can do, if you want to put the effort in, not the creation of an all-powerful artifact: that should be reserved for the treasure hunters of the Oort.

I think “material quality” will add flavour and depth, but shouldn’t become a means to an end.

[Kalthazar]

@Heurazio

that’s all fine and not the point i’m talking about

i don’t see the need for an extra penalty (the upper limit should be a good converting factor). sorry if i skip the lower qulities for simplicity, i have them in mind.

This is why I like to go back to the Real World for examples:

Lets take a mineral (Iron or titanium). What makes its ore common, uncommon, rare, or epic?
common: say 5% mineral content
uncommon: say 20%
rare: 60% or 70%
epic: near pure.

Now how often would you encounter them? common 80% of the time, uncommon 15%, rare 4%, epic 1%.

Now take your common ore that you find 80% of the time, will it take 99 blocks to convert to 1 block of epic? no it shouldn’t, It would still only take 20 to make a pure ingot.

Therefore the conversion ratio definitely has little to do with the “chance to encounter” it.

However, for balance purposes, it may make more sense to increase to conversion requirement to give an “epic find” more valuable.

EDIT: I wasn’t “defiant” about the ratio though reading what auto-correct did to the sentence was “definitely” entertaining…

[Vencedor]

I’m just going to put this out there. If anything in this game is up to luck I quit. I’ve learnt from WoW, D3, GW2, LoL and real life that I have no luck what so ever.

[Kalthazar]

@Havok40k

is simply too grindy

@Vastar

I have too agree with you, although I would not use “grindy”.In my opinion it is just unintuitive and impractical. As the game is now your inventory is already overfilled with all the different colours of blocks/seeds etc. if the devs would now add different ore rarities to all the different ores we are (probably) going to get mining and crafting would become nothing but a mess.If the devs would just add a small chance to drop a higher tiered ore it would almost have the same effect but would just need the devs to slightly change some loot tables.

Good points all. If done wrong it could become just another layer of detail that adds nothing but tedium. On the other hand I still think there is merit to it if balanced properly.

I’m still hoping for things like wagons, or float platforms, and chests to extend inventory and transportation.

And even without it, while mining for ore if I come across a rare ore, I’d take it/them and leave the 35 common ores in a chest crafted on site until later (maybe, depending upon the risk of loss). Still there is the question of coding time vs benefit.

Still I think it would be neat if balanced and added for flavour. Searching for that perfect tree that would yield wood slightly more durable…

I think it would add depth, but because the benefit is relatively minor, it’d be optional to “quest for it” and therefore not “a grind” or tedious. Most folks would just grab wood, and craft stuff…

However, an artisan may want to “quest for it”, so that they can sell their wares as higher quality and demand more for them. Depends upon how RPG one wants to get… Said artisan may offer a quest to others to buy rare wood for a worthy price to someone who needs the cash… again depends upon the games economic mechanics to determine if it would make sense.