When people here say “You can just trade” to avoid unenjoyable systems or processes they’re missing the point that I want to enjoy the crafting too. Just buying something is, for me, a bland and unfulfilling experience. Making something is enjoyable. Asking for a change in system so it can meet both user group’s needs is not unreasonable I think. To do otherwise is just make portions of the fun of the game inaccessible to some. It could be both.
The trouble with the argument that you’re not forced to use it is that a lot of not only power but also other properties are now locked in the forge process. All base gem slingbows poot out at a paltry range. You can’t AOE, etc. etc.
So I refute that it can be avoided. Yes, if you want to have a bad grapple range and terrible shot arc forever, you can avoid it. But then the game is pretty sucky.
Edit: Also I think the progression curve to get equivalent to e.g. a sapphire grapple and ruby bow of old is out of whack. If you ever get there with the right boons, you’re so much further into an additional ingredient and crafting process. When I think about 1.0 and how long it’ll be before I can use a grapple as I could in 192 I get a bit blue (bad pun intended).
This is the same path Trove went down. I think there’s a fair chance Boundless is gonna have F2P transactions (they already announced the virtual currency “Cubits”) where you can pay real money to ensure you get the specific upgrade you want.
Then people gonna be like, “It’s to encourage trading!” as an excuse.
With the $40 price tag, and setting up the game with virtual currency, I think the game may slowly add more and more RNG, and more and more typical MMO-gambling items to help those with money not need to grind as much.
I’d absolutely agree with you if items didn’t have durability. Or if you could repair items. But to be honest, the only reason what you’re saying is true is because it has been built TO BE true. If the durability modifying boons didn’t make such a drastic impact on item health, I don’t think this would be the same discussion.
In this case, it’s less about what I am doing, and more about what I’d like to get out of the system, this is mostly focused around the below quote. Although it’s also worth asking: If you’ve never used all of your vigour, they you presumably wouldn’t have a problem with this as a way to use less?
Some people may enjoy gambling with their time and resources in the hopes that they’ll get lucky and get what they want. I understand that, and I’m not suggesting that that option should be removed. What my suggestion does is that for those like me who absolutely abhor the gambling aspect of item creation (Especially when done in this way were you have round after round of crossing your fingers and hoping), it says 'You can keep investing materials to stack buffs until you can be more sure you get what you want.
That way, everyone can play the way they want, and you still have stability to limit overall product of the forging process to make sure you can’t make the one item to rule them all.
TL:DR:
Boundless is a subscription-free MMO which means you buy the game at a fixed price and can then play the game forever without having to spend a penny more. They are going to be supporting Boundless for years to come, adding new features and content regularly, and along with the cost of running the servers, this means they will have ongoing bills to pay and so require ways of making money through the game.
That wasn’t what I meant, but thank you for the links and explanation.
My point was, “Cubits” are likely going to find themselves used more and more in the game to Pay-To-Progress faster and faster. I think eventually there’s a risk Boundless is gonna start looking like a F2P game, and I think the RNG of the Forge, which is what my original comment was about, is a perfect example of that.
There’s one big, standard reason why you’d make a Forge give RNG stats, it’s to lower the chances of the person getting what they want, thus enticing them to spend more time and money on the game to increase their odds at getting what they want.
This is standard F2P-Whale techniques and slightly disturbing to see implemented in Boundless already.
To be honest I was just playing devils advocate, I actually would rather not want more randomness. I was just trying to hi light a point regarding balance within ‘professions’. I’m sure most people on here are sick and tired of my questions etc to do with the forge. I still haven’t got around to actually using the forge as I’m still in the process of making what I can only guess are a useful set of ingredients to use. Personally I have never liked slot machines and from what I can see it seems that that essentially is what the forge is … you have x amount of spins based on certain factors and then it’s a case of trying to hold or nudge certain reels in the hope that you will get the outcome that you are hoping for. I’m not interested in making over the top, overpowered weapons or tools just ones that are fit for the purpose and consistently reproducible. I promise I won’t say anymore on the subject until I’ve at least had a go at it. …
Gambling/business is risk vs reward. Providing a way to always win does not appease both camps as that effectively quantifies the risk. We already have tons of deterministic mechanics in the game - why not let those who enjoy some risk have one that isn’t so locked in?
Clearly we’re on different sides of this - please understand that should they add a way to guarantee the reward that would also remove the fun of the risk. No way to please everyone here…
Agreed- No risk of failure makes success feel shallow. It also allows for the possibility of some truely powerful but rare enhancements. Crafting that hammer with the legendary enhancements would feel sooo good
If I forgo using the forge, then I am making a decision to be good with less. Instead of having a tool that can clear a 3x3 slot which I was able to do with certainty before, now I settle for clearing one block at a time. Unless I am willing to gamble or spend coin, that is my option. Personally, I do not like that being my option.
The issue I have with this is the existence of diamond hammers in the prior release did not seem to create any issues that I am aware of. You could use brews and food to increase durability and skills to increase hitting speed. So why is this a problem to have certainly with the forge versus randomness? I must be missing something.
Agreed, we are on different sides of opinion on this. While I don’t agree there is no middle ground that can work for everyone, I do think the differences in our viewpoints would prevent us both from accepting it as a ‘better’ solution. For example, I believe that if the materials to add tiers to the buffs that would help move towards guaranteeing success were rare or expensive enough, there would be plenty of scope for the enjoyment of risk vs reward of those people who don’t want to spend them all. But that’s just me.
If providing a way around being obliged to participate in this kind of interaction keeps people from enjoying gambling (or if they chose not to gamble because they had other options), then in my opinion they didn’t REALLY enjoy the gambling aspect that much in the first place.
Oh, totally. Crafting that super awesome hammer via a gambling system will be an amazing feeling. But perhaps less so will be the part where you’ve no reasonable way to replace it, so you spend forever saving it for the moment where it is ‘worth it’ to actually use it. That may not be how you’d feel about it, but it’s certainly how I would.
Ultimately, I believe there is a place for Gambling in games, but that gambling should be ‘for fun’ and not part of a core game mechanic. The forge has definitely become a core game mechanic with other unique attributes being removed from higher tier tools. I’d have absolutely no issue with there being some kind of functionality that lets you gamble your coins, cubits, resources (or whatever) for the ‘chance’ of getting more of what you invested back.
This is the issue with having certainty when using the forge… everyone would have this… there would be no other hammers in the game (and likely no land left)
Is that an issue to do with the forge having a degree of certainty or that the forge currently can make over powered tools? … not trolling, just asking
