I have played a game with a player ran law system (Darkages) and I was apart of that law system for about 2 years, and even had to hand down and carry out a Capital Punishment sentence to a player once.
But that is that and this is this.
This type of system typically only works well in RP Heavy games, where RP is almost a requirement. Riot had a system where players got to judge other players, and they got rid of that system, It was not the best thing.
Having players judge each other, which some will most certainty be toxic or judgmental against some aspects, in an Non-RP Environment, Is asking for a problem in most cases.
Player ran law systems, is a very nice idea, but it only works well in very very very select cases. and it is not with out its flaws and its own problems.
just to clarify something befor i start replying i was in no way effected with what happened with the last case of “hunt trolling” nor created the post out of any kind of anger or “THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED NOW”
i have felt sense the CoC was released that the name and shame part was a little too ambiguous and the surge of greafing kind of just reminded me of it
and im not saying it shod be its just with how smail the dev team is unless people shame without nameing like whats going on with the hunt thread i bet it would be weeks if not months before something happened to the given players i have seen several case’s where mob rule has atlest appeared to speed up the reporting process
the thing what that is its already happening i know of atlest 2 servers that have name and shame (like seactions) and the thing is with the community this smell when you force people to take that stuff underground it gives the “forged” evidence even more power cuz there is no one to fact check it
if say im leading a hunt and take screenshots to make it look like x player was griefing sure thats a bad thing but then if i go and post it here people who where at the hunt would then reply and say “no that player did not do that it was x”
but now if i post that info in a server where people generally trust me and maybe where not on the hunt they may believe it and now it starts to spread that x player is a greafer
now im willing to admit im not for just straight up saying anything goes that’s why i titled the thread rework and not remove
i just feel something has to change cuz has it stands right now more troll/greaf threads are starting to pop up then normal ones with people just haveing to censor themselves
yea it was more to emphasize the point that we cant even technically say something like that warning people of a shop that maybe using scammy tactics.
im going to say this knowing there is a chance it could come back to bite me via a even tighter name and shame change but after looking around i do see that other MMO’s have a “name and shame” rule but boundless is unique in terms of its a building game with a smail group of core builders if someone takes a picture of my building and removes all the “names” unless i build in a remote area eveyone knows its my build the fact there is no name in the name and shame is just a formality like a cop ordering a “coffee” at a bar when eveyone knows its really a shot of whiskey
Just because you may not name and shame in official channels does not prevent you from informing your own guild and associates discreetly. Emphasis on discreetly, and note that you may be held responsible for any harassment perpetrated by your own indiscretions.
What is ambiguous about it? it seems fairly clear to me, and for the most part, standard for the type of forums I am used to.
I will draw your attention to the word Defamatory, Which name and shaming happens to be defamation when it happens before conviction, which in this case would mean, before a dev punishes a player, We are not able to get absolute proof of a crime, and since things can be forged or taken out of context or misunderstood, the devs are the only ones that can get absolute proof, also the devs are the ones allowed to judge the proof, we are not, so name and shaming of any kind before the devs agree and confirm the report, is defamation.
This is also redundantly covered by the word libellous in that statement,
Then there is the word Abusive, Name and shaming is Harassment which in turn is Abusive.
I think this makes it pretty clear and not ambiguous at all.
This I feel is conjecture due to confirmation bias, We don’t have access to all the reports that have been made and how fast they are actually reviewed and reports can be reviewed with out a punishment being deemed as needed, and due to the lack of a ticket system It can be hard for the public to try to keep track of their own reports. So you are most likely only seeing a very small part of the data.
yes, and I know EVE online allows it as well, but that is up to the game designers to decide how they want punishments to happen, The devs clearly want full control over it and want to take the more standard approach. because it is not with out its faults and it can create other problems.
Or they take the screenshot as fact the moment they see it and the damage happens, when that person is innocent. also anyone can also claim that, that player did not do that, and that it was X. Players do not have access to log files, and it is a known fact that humans can make bad witnesses to crimes and fail to remember everything or remember things incorrectly.
This is the type of situation the devs and most other game designers do not want to have happening, it is open to abuse.
You cannot rework this, as Name and shaming is a type harassment, You want to Legalize a type Harassment? Forge a screenshot of someone you don’t like, or find some way to get a screenshot that can be misunderstood by the public when the right lie is told with it, and now you are given a pass to harass them by trying to damage their reputation and make them feel unwanted to play the game? Really? This is much more harmful to innocent players then it is to the guilty ones.
Any rework that allows even conditional name and shaming opens up the door to types of harassment. People like drama and people like to jump the gun about Drama.
Yes something needs to change, I told you where the problem is and therefore what needs to change in my 1st rebuttal. The Fact there is no Player Behavior Specialist, And The Fact there is no Ticket System for reports.
What doesn’t need to change, is giving the general public more ways to create disinformation about players either on purpose or by mistake. and enabling a „Legal“ way to harass that player in a very specific
This is an example of Naming, It is not an example of Name and Shaming. simply taking a picture of someone or something is not Name and shaming unless that picture and/or statement actually contains something to shame the player about.
yea tbh im going to give up on this point in retrospect the rule would prob never change anyway so its just trying to tell the sun to stop setting
idk maybe it would just be best for me to write off the 60$ i spent on this game contact steam and have them remove it from my Library and see what i need to do to have my forum account on here deleted
just give it some time man. it’s frustrating I know but this stuff takes time. I would be surprised if this issue was just left hanging.
I have seen more than a few rotten apples just disappear. did they quit or were they baned? I don’t know but they ain’t here no more… and all it took was took time.
I already pointed out the two main problems that need to be fixed. I do not support giving players loopholes in the system to harass other players or start witch hunts, when there are better ways, much better ways, it can be handled, by a professional.
Two things to that, can you for the benefit of a non-native speaker point out to me what part about his post you felt were rude? Because they didn’t seem to be rude to me but I might be misunderstanding something, so I would like the chance to learn.
And second as far as I understood the conversation was about the rule to not name and shame and not on how to combat trolls or griefers in game.
I don’t really care if the game had 20 players or 200,000 players.
Maybe not to you but that doesn’t mean harassment is not happening, just because you don’t see it, or people are not loud enough on the forums for it to look like a problem for you.
Can you prove to me that there have been absolutely no harassment reports made in the last, month or so? You cannot. So stating that harassment is non existent is invalid.
Also in my 1st rebuttal, I have also pointed out how even if you were allowed to name and shame, it would do little to nothing about the regen problem, as even knowing before hand who is creating the problem will not stop them from creating a problem, only a dev can put a stop to that. so name and shaming them is kind of pointless to start with, since you do seem to be referring to the Regen bomb problem.
I mean, I agree with you that the name and shame rules gives too much power to the trolls and that it should be allowed to name and shame if you have clear video proof.
But Trundamere was quite respectful in their arguments, (even if I tend to disagree with them). Not really sure what angle your going at here. Just because you disagree with them doesn’t make them “rude”