Rework the name and shame rule

i get this is a looooong shot but i feel the rule really needs tweaking i get the point of it to prevent witch hunts and innocent players getting caught up but has it stands right now it just seems to be there to protect griefers and prevent the player base form trying to deal with them for instance i would not hand sell a stack of regen bombs if i know it was someone who 9/10 was going to run off to a hunt with them.

maybe rework the rule so you cant name and shame without proof so saying x player is a hunt grefer without proof thread lock but posting screen shots or video would be fine

or at the varly lest tighten up the language on the rule has it stands its a lawyer’s dream cuz its so Ambiguously worded that i cant even say

“dont buy form x players shop he sells warn tools for full price!” without getting mod bonked

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Record the video of who is doing something intentional like that so their name is visible and PM James directly with the video for him alone. That should at least start getting visibility to the issue on the developer side and still keep it within the rule.

the thing that is most online games policy is they dont discuss what happens with the report you send so i could say send in a report and for all i know james just toss’s the report in the trash, gives the guy another warning or temp/perma bans him… meanwhile the person run’s around and keeps doing what he is doing unchecked and under the radar cuz we can only name and shame him on private servers

and if its something like overpricing or selling worn tools that’s 100% within the rules

Yeah I hear you… I cannot comment on if they will ban or not because I just don’t know. I know people have been banned from the game but all we can do is wait and see… All I know is that “more information” is helpful instead of nothing right now.

I did PM James personally with a note about this because it isn’t right and they need to address something around it ASAP and try to get into Farming as far as I am concerned.

I thought worn tools automatically get discounted through the system. I put a machine up that was worn and it cut my asking price.

I used to play Neverwinter… that game has so many trolls… at any rate we had a guild leader FB page where leaders could give fair warning. I know I personally appreciated it as a leader. I know it’s against CoC here… but on FB is another story and I personally would be all for it.

I have one or two I would put on the list.

there are sometimes cases where both parties are at fault, so be careful. Anger is often associated with an event

must also pay attention to those who play the police in Boundless. Without taking into account what has really happened, they will take sides with the person they know … and that can only engender even more anger and problem.(sometimes they are not white themselves) Nobody is more important than another here … and people should believe that they have enough power to do this without creating more problem

The best thing is to have someone who deals with these problems … the devs. To have a neutral opinion, but also to know if people are really bad. Nothing excuses bad faith, but there are two sides to a medal. If you really care about the health of the game and the quality of the community, let the devs make the decision

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One of the few comments that are absolutely fantastic! You can not describe this problem better!

Especially when the iron elite gathers together, a witch hunt can quickly backfire! Almost everyone knows something like this from any other multiplayer!

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This can be forged.

And as it should be. Rather or not someone gets banned from the game, is not information you are entitled to, unless that person wants to make it public, such information can be used to harass the player.

I disagree with this, James will get to it when he haves time, It might take longer then you would like, but that is the situation with the amount of staff they have. It is highly suggested you follow up with james in a DM about it after awhile.

The problem is not the fact that you are not allowed to name and shame, that haves nothing to do with it, the problem is, It is lack of staff to deal with the reports in a timely manor. We do not have a player behavior specialist whos function is to deal with this kind of administrative thing full time or as their top priority.

Then there is the reporting system its self, Boundless should take a page out of Riots book about such things and have a Ticket system, that makes it clear the status of the report, as it stands right now, it requires you to manually pester james about it, and if you don’t, then it can feel like your report is just going into the void.

Being allowed to Name and Shame will not fix the problem, it will create other problems

Lets suppose something for a moment,

You used to be a hunt leader, so I will use you as an example

Let us suppose that I have just had it with the way you ran hunts, and I wanted to create a problem.
What is name and shaming going to do? You can not stop me from coming on your hunts, There is no party system, I can follow you and your group around and regen stuff, regardless if you want me there or not. You can not kick me out of the group. It is a public hunt that anyone can find. So knowing before hand that i might be out to create a problem, Is not going to stop me from creating the problem.

What will stop me from creating a problem, is when James eventually punishes me for it. You yourself can not, not even with name and shaming.

Then there is the fact that Screenshots and yes even video can be forged, So at the end of the day, you need a GM to verify log files before a punishment can be put out, by wanting to name and shame, you are trying to bypass that verification step, and take the punishment into your own hands by harassing the player by publicly name and shaming them. Yes naming and shaming is harassment, which is why most games do not allow it.

Bottom line from me is,

Naming and shaming will not stop someone from creating a problem, if they want to create a problem, They will, and they most likely don’t care what happens to their reputation in the process and that is assuming they don’t try to mask it, which is another thing that can happen.

Naming and shaming can create the problems of people taking punishment into their own hands before all of the facts are indeed verified, and trying to start witch hunts, and forging things for the purpose of defamation

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Didn’t someone say they’re removing Regen bombs due to griefing?

Probably a bad example because the price for worn tools is automatically scaled down.

Although, it doesn’t apply to slingbow/bomb augments.

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I hope this is mistranslated :wink:

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I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to but in Quebec we have an expression that says “do not be white like snow” “ne pas être blanc comme neige” that refers to someone who is not entirely clean. if that’s what you understood, there is no mistake… otherwise yes

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i once saw a game where if you did something wrong(many reports) you get send to a in-game trial and other high rep people can subscribe to be called for jury duty and appoint some punishes if they choose to

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I have played a game with a player ran law system (Darkages) and I was apart of that law system for about 2 years, and even had to hand down and carry out a Capital Punishment sentence to a player once.

But that is that and this is this.

This type of system typically only works well in RP Heavy games, where RP is almost a requirement. Riot had a system where players got to judge other players, and they got rid of that system, It was not the best thing.

Having players judge each other, which some will most certainty be toxic or judgmental against some aspects, in an Non-RP Environment, Is asking for a problem in most cases.

Player ran law systems, is a very nice idea, but it only works well in very very very select cases. and it is not with out its flaws and its own problems.

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guess all ya can do then is wait for more staff

as long as it’s neutral… but I’m not sure of the “very representative” people though…

I can not really comment on that, I do not know that

but briefly with the information you give me, I do not think it would be a good thing in Boundless

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just to clarify something befor i start replying i was in no way effected with what happened with the last case of “hunt trolling” nor created the post out of any kind of anger or “THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED NOW”

i have felt sense the CoC was released that the name and shame part was a little too ambiguous and the surge of greafing kind of just reminded me of it

and im not saying it shod be its just with how smail the dev team is unless people shame without nameing like whats going on with the hunt thread i bet it would be weeks if not months before something happened to the given players i have seen several case’s where mob rule has atlest appeared to speed up the reporting process

the thing what that is its already happening i know of atlest 2 servers that have name and shame (like seactions) and the thing is with the community this smell when you force people to take that stuff underground it gives the “forged” evidence even more power cuz there is no one to fact check it

if say im leading a hunt and take screenshots to make it look like x player was griefing sure thats a bad thing but then if i go and post it here people who where at the hunt would then reply and say “no that player did not do that it was x”

but now if i post that info in a server where people generally trust me and maybe where not on the hunt they may believe it and now it starts to spread that x player is a greafer

now im willing to admit im not for just straight up saying anything goes that’s why i titled the thread rework and not remove

i just feel something has to change cuz has it stands right now more troll/greaf threads are starting to pop up then normal ones with people just haveing to censor themselves

yea it was more to emphasize the point that we cant even technically say something like that warning people of a shop that maybe using scammy tactics.


general post

im going to say this knowing there is a chance it could come back to bite me via a even tighter name and shame change but after looking around i do see that other MMO’s have a “name and shame” rule but boundless is unique in terms of its a building game with a smail group of core builders if someone takes a picture of my building and removes all the “names” unless i build in a remote area eveyone knows its my build the fact there is no name in the name and shame is just a formality like a cop ordering a “coffee” at a bar when eveyone knows its really a shot of whiskey

Just because you may not name and shame in official channels does not prevent you from informing your own guild and associates discreetly. Emphasis on discreetly, and note that you may be held responsible for any harassment perpetrated by your own indiscretions.

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What is ambiguous about it? it seems fairly clear to me, and for the most part, standard for the type of forums I am used to.

I will draw your attention to the word Defamatory, Which name and shaming happens to be defamation when it happens before conviction, which in this case would mean, before a dev punishes a player, We are not able to get absolute proof of a crime, and since things can be forged or taken out of context or misunderstood, the devs are the only ones that can get absolute proof, also the devs are the ones allowed to judge the proof, we are not, so name and shaming of any kind before the devs agree and confirm the report, is defamation.

This is also redundantly covered by the word libellous in that statement,

Then there is the word Abusive, Name and shaming is Harassment which in turn is Abusive.

I think this makes it pretty clear and not ambiguous at all.

This I feel is conjecture due to confirmation bias, We don’t have access to all the reports that have been made and how fast they are actually reviewed and reports can be reviewed with out a punishment being deemed as needed, and due to the lack of a ticket system It can be hard for the public to try to keep track of their own reports. So you are most likely only seeing a very small part of the data.

yes, and I know EVE online allows it as well, but that is up to the game designers to decide how they want punishments to happen, The devs clearly want full control over it and want to take the more standard approach. because it is not with out its faults and it can create other problems.

Or they take the screenshot as fact the moment they see it and the damage happens, when that person is innocent. also anyone can also claim that, that player did not do that, and that it was X. Players do not have access to log files, and it is a known fact that humans can make bad witnesses to crimes and fail to remember everything or remember things incorrectly.

This is the type of situation the devs and most other game designers do not want to have happening, it is open to abuse.

You cannot rework this, as Name and shaming is a type harassment, You want to Legalize a type Harassment? Forge a screenshot of someone you don’t like, or find some way to get a screenshot that can be misunderstood by the public when the right lie is told with it, and now you are given a pass to harass them by trying to damage their reputation and make them feel unwanted to play the game? Really? This is much more harmful to innocent players then it is to the guilty ones.

Any rework that allows even conditional name and shaming opens up the door to types of harassment. People like drama and people like to jump the gun about Drama.

Yes something needs to change, I told you where the problem is and therefore what needs to change in my 1st rebuttal. The Fact there is no Player Behavior Specialist, And The Fact there is no Ticket System for reports.

What doesn’t need to change, is giving the general public more ways to create disinformation about players either on purpose or by mistake. and enabling a „Legal“ way to harass that player in a very specific

This is an example of Naming, It is not an example of Name and Shaming. simply taking a picture of someone or something is not Name and shaming unless that picture and/or statement actually contains something to shame the player about.

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