Skill Trees v2

Devlog
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I know this is a fairly contentious point (A single character being able/or not to fill out all the skill trees), but if the reason for people to be limited as to what they can achieve on a single character is that there’s an over-arching desire to prevent people from becoming totally self-sufficient…

Why does the current thinking have us be allowed multiple characters, which we can use to become totally self-sufficient?

In fact, in light of the proposed changes as to how we’ll earn experience (through missions as opposed to through actions), it’s now arguably easier to have a single player do all of the things via multiple characters than it would be to carry on earning experience to fill out all the trees on a single character, as each new character will (presumably) have access to all the non-repeatable missions, and not have to wait for dailies/weeklies for further character development.

If there really is a strong desire to have people seriously consider their skills, pick what suits them and end up with something that is unique(ish) and particular to them, they system needs to prevent them from doing it all anyway. Otherwise, I imagine people will just find the ‘best build for a miner’ and make one of those, and then the ‘best build for a craft’ and make one of those, etc etc.

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I think it’s the opposite, Boundless doesn’t want to limit solo players, but it does want benefits to working as a team.

It’s going to be easier with a team/guild having one person of each spec to go on a mission, but with enough time and effort a solo player can have them all as well, just nowhere near as fast as a team.

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I think perhaps I’ve not been clear. I totally agree that in all scenarios, it will and should be significantly easier to fill a single role, and participate as a team member. That’s great. It encourages team play, and makes you interact with other people at the start of the game.

But as any single player progresses on into the game, if they want to do more things then they are going to cultivate alts. With time and effort, any solo players will be able to do everything that any other solo player can do, just by logging off and logging in a new character.

I think what I’m getting at, is that if the goal is to ensure that people work together and build a thriving economy, then the currently suggested workings are only a short term solution while people get up their alt family up and running. After that point, how will it end up being different from every other MMO I’ve played where you have your army of crafting alts?. You just craft what you need because it’s cheaper. The only real economy is based around the people who have played long enough and have enough money to take the shortcut of buying raw materials instead of going out and gathering it with their gathering alt(s).

If on the other hand, it is an important feature that given enough time any player CAN do everything, why is there such a strong focus on making that one person log on and off to do all the things they want, instead of just having a single character that can (most likely with more work than assembling a team of alts) fill out all the trees?

Honestly, maybe I just don’t get it. I genuinely think maybe I’m missing some key piece of evidence or logical argument that would put all the pieces together for me.

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I would also prefer to avoid allowing alts of every flavor, but I would like to be able to clear all of my skill points and reallocate them on a minimal cool down. An hour cd and a hundred coin to change specs seems reasonable to me. Maybe limit the number of times per day one can respec, or incrementally increase the cost in a 24 hour period, something to discourage abuse.

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:’( no one liked my souls idea

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@Jiivita because you can master literally everything to the Nth degree.
@AnnieGYG finding meme-ier ways to lay on passive aggressive doesnt make you more clever or your lack of reasoning and ability to understand less. gg for trying i guess. ive spent over a grand on wf, spending 35.00 during a steam sale doesnt give me some magical form of entitlement that i think i need to express through insults. again, gg. e for effort i guess. if something doesnt seem fair or right or seems redundant and unneeded, and it affects my ability to enjoy the game, i will mention it. im not a yess man appologist brown knight who is going to just dev-please my way to being a forum moderator. not my style.
ill tell you how i feel and why and try my best to help others understand, something you dont seem intent on even trying to accomplish. for this reason, this has been my last acknowledgement of your replies/presence here.
@marrash is the only one who sorta gets it from what im reading.

as for micro transactions, i wasnt referring to buying more than one copy of the game, i was referring to buying stuff within the game as a work around for players who dont want to do the alt farming and best build Unavoidable End Result characters that the game is headed for, and was in regard to unlocking the skill tree limit of x amount of skill points applied per character (alt).

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i did appreciate it, but it was a little complex and jumbled.

i understood it as being something similar to a certification/book of knowledge. where you can find/craft/compile bits of knowledge that amount to owning a specific skill set benefit. some more useful or efficient than others.

i think its an interesting idea, and would definitely give players a reason to explore. something i had been aiming for with my secret shops.

i didnt overlook your concept, but i was preoccupied trying to help others understand my feelings and ideals about the game and where theyre going in regard to the skill trees.

perhaps it was the use of ‘souls’ and not ‘book’ or ‘gem’ or ‘rune’ or w/e that readers didnt gravitate to

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Used the term soul just because multiple games call it that, so I figured it would be the most familiar.

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I feel I must interject here as this debate is getting quite heated and a lot of personal insults flying around…

Likewise others are doing the same (albeit sometimes not getting their own points across in a manner respectful to all parties involved in the discussion). My apologies for not interjecting sooner.

This is the kind of personal insult I was talking about. Just because someone is a forum moderator, it doesn’t give their thoughts/opinions on what they do and do not like in Boundless any more/less weight than yours. Please stop trying to label people to devalue their opinions.

This goes for everyone on here … discuss TOPICS, not PEOPLE… and be respectful of others opinions, even if they don’t align with your own. Personally I loathe having to trawl through a stupid slanging match, just to pick out the actual tid-bits of information about the subject at hand.

…and speaking of the subject at hand…

@T4LCOMX - I can see your point here… having a bunch of alt accounts, where you can still to do all the things, seems like a silly idea - it’s essentially the same as being able to do everything on one account … and a lot of the time involved in getting either an army of alts or a main character to the stage where they can do everything, is basically just down to balance. (Something I think the devs will have many a meeting about!)

But…

Let me suggest a scenario which may add some weight to the reasoning behind one character shouldn’t be able to do everything (hopefully you’ll continue reading)…

Ok… for whatever reason, you’ve joined a group of people (yeah, yeah, I know you prefer to play solo) to take down a titan so you can reap some juicy rewards (a-ha! Something worth joining a team for!)…

As it stands, each person within that group is probably going to have slightly different skills, one person may be more proficient in throwing bombs, another better with the lance, others with the slingbow, even a miner may be able to beat a tunnel through some soft titan flesh quicker than others (you get the gist) etc… with those differences, they will complement each other, at that particular time in the game, for that particular battle, and they’re more likely to play as a more cohesive team because they have to rely on each other.

I feel that (and this is my personal opinion as a fellow player of Boundless), if you allow everyone to max out everything (even if it does take a year to do), you’ll somewhat stagnate that previous team based combat, as it’ll become less cohesive - everyone can do everything… so in that particular moment, when you battle a titan or attack a temple (if they’re still going to be a thing), people will try and do everything, and that then becomes boring.

Player differences may also not only be of benefit in the battle, but in the reaping of rewards afterwards - potentially there could be certain rewards gained from downing a titan, that only a master miner can attain (i.e. a titan heart), or that a master lancer can decipher and make usable (i.e. a protector weapon). And obviously, I would hope that if any of those were real things, they would be done in such a way that they could then be sold on to others as well. This is more of a suggestion as opposed to anything that is planned, so don’t quote me on anything in this paragraph!

As some background about my own play style … I am more of a solo player as well - I don’t mind playing with others, but I generally prefer to do my own thing a lot of the time and I can’t usually commit to things like raid times and what-not (I have a job, and don’t need another one :wink: ),

In conclusion, I do understand the desire to do everything yourself, as I want to be able to as well… I just don’t think we should be able to do it all at the same time.

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I just want to give this message, and not with the intent of personally hurting or offending someone, as I feel like it’s an attitude we should all take towards further discussing this and other topics: Just because he doesn’t agree with your views and opinions, doesn’t mean he doesn’t get your views and opinions, understanding and agreeing are two different things.

Now on to the topic of skill tress. I wanted to quote some important pieces of information I’ve read

This to me pretty much sums up to me the touchy topics in the skill trees. I hope everyone agrees, that many things are still not certain until we try it, and we might be surprised positively or negatively.

I must recognize I’ve not been my better version while discussing in the forums, at least not always, so first of all, sorry. Just because some of my ideas and opinions align with the devs, I’m not a yes man.

Personally I have nothing against been able to master all the skills, and just been able to use a certain limit at a time, and then swapping the skill set for others that are convenient for another situation; or just been limited to a number of skills, and then having to opt for an alternate character. What’s important here, is finding the right balance, so that it can’t be abused. I truly don’t mind one or the other. Both have their pros and cons, let’s just find which aligns and makes happy the devs and the community as a whole, at least the majority.

Games have always had tasks meant for a group of players, and that’s how I think it should be. Still many things and most of the things, should be manageable solo. I sometimes want to do something by myself, and others I want to have fun with a group of people, I want to believe that’s how it is for most.

As @stretchious said, limiting one to a number of skills at a time, will grant the team, and importance to how it’s composed, and not just having x number of players that do the same thing to beat a titan.

I will always have fun building and mining, but sometimes I’ll want to go hunting, and been the most efficient you can be at it, is appealing, I just don’t think you should be able to do everything to the best possible form all at the same time. Just as you need to plan ahead what you’ll do with crafting times, you’ll need to plan ahead the skill sets with what you’re about to do, like going to kill a titan with a group. Example: your friends are lacking a healer, so you take the role of healer and prepare your skillset in advance.

If this system makes it into the game, this makes having a “maxed out” friend help you killing titans, not something easy, as he wouldn’t be able to do everything, and you’ll need to contribute with a certain role.

I want to conclude saying: Not because something isn’t your cup of tea, it means that it’s bad. Just means that you favor something else. As we live in a society, not everyone is gonna be happy with all the decisions, but we should try to at least be respectful, with I have to say shamefully, that I haven’t always been respectful.

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I think it’s exciting to experience any MMO on different races with different skill sets and different weapons (maybe different elements), it’s very important to the longevity of the game.

I also 100% agree with having an array of skills ready to go for just the example Dzchan said, a titan kill - there’s no healers so you can switch to the alt immediately and not have to spend the time reallocating all your skill points & trawling through cupboards full of elemental weapons/tool to get the right one.

I prefer this method of being double or triple skilled or more on 1 character rather than I assume the old intended method of being tied down to just “trader” or just “miner” or just “builder” or just “attacker”. I think people can really build this new method to suit their playstyle, be it builder/miner, or explorer/miner or explorer/attacker - without being totally OP in everything.

Plus this method makes it easier to introduce new skill sets in the future - ie, farming, or animal husbandry.

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That sounds aweful targeted buddy, mind clarifying who you’re throwing shade at here? I’m starting to wonder if this topic might be more productive if you where muted from it. Because where I’m from, them fightin’ words.

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@Havok40k It says @ me so it’s aimed at me, triggered by my funny dev cartoon post I guess? maybe because I understand the devs struggle with this skill tree stuff and I agree with them taking this route and it’s pretty much the same what every single popular MMO does, maybe it’s seen that I am pushing for moderator as I agree? Couldn’t be father from the truth since I’ve been there already in another EA game, and I strongly disagree with the trading without a planetary auction house. Guess the difference is if I don’t agree I post a suggestion, I don’t say, “bye, see you, I quit this game”.

Maybe I shouldn’t have posted this because people who brought Boundless on Steam aren’t entitled to an opinion as they haven’t paid enough… that was a great insult to 90% of the forum.

Guess it’s up to you guys if you want to clean this thread up.

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Already working to get this back on track. That being said, I won’t tolerate attacks toward the leaders in any way. This is purely volunteer work because we love this game and community so much. We do take our responsibility seriously.

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I vote to close this topic. Think points have made and most of us had enough of it.
Maybe a mod can distillate the essence of what been said without the side tracks on this subject
Thank you

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Ok.

I’ve closed this thread for now. There are varying opinions here, the consensus is that most players are happy to have more than one character that they can use to specialise into certain areas/skills etc.

While we aren’t planning to allow players to master everything and switch those skills at will. There will be a way that you can respec/reskill those trees, at a cost (time/currency). So you can if you want to (and have the resource for) specialise in any way on just one character.

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