I let my grandson play on one of my alts who I farm for extra plots. With the Loss of XP on death this is not a good thing as he dies alot (he is 4 years old!)… I wish you all would rethink that one.
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I would think 4yo is a bit too little for gaming like that? (I mean when there are things at stake like xp or equipment etc.).
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He’ll probably need his own account by the time he is 6 … best to get him his own one, so he can learn to build amazing things too 
Seriously though, from what we have seen so far - you should be able to unlock up to 10 characters using cubits (although this could be subject to change), so you should be able to farm a few characters for plots.
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I have seen people on testing already enhancing their builds with some of them.
I really wanted to see all craftable doors and with big help from @Jiivita and @virresss I managed to get the ones I couldn’t craft myself due to power requirements.
Big hug lads!! 
I also wanted to see how different types of doors look against different kind of frames and that’s how this video came to life. It shows all types of doors but only chunk of possible color variations (should I mention all possible frames vs. door type/color? I only created wood, brick and metal frames for the video - there is way more to try out in search for your perfect combination!!).
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I tottaly agree with you. I remember that the same thing happened when the old jump skills were nerfed. I have some complains too, mainly about having to choose between health and energy regeneration or between damage/health and armor. However, I can see that those changes will be very positive in reinforcing the mainly purpouse of the skill tree: making sure that everyone can choose different skills and be able to do different things.
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Now that I’ve made time to have a proper look at this and really mull it over, I honestly don’t think this will have the effect of making more unique characters.
Almost all of the MMO playing experience I have tells me that when people don’t have enough skills to max out a specific goal, the majority of people look to the internet to find ‘the most efficient build for X’ and use that. I don’t believe the new skill system will truly cause people to stop, consider their options and come to their own conclusions. I think you’ll find that everyone just ends up with a tool crafting spec that is the same as the majority of the population’s tool crafting spec, and then they’ll get a spec for the next goal they want to achieve that is also the same as the majority of other players etc etc.
I would suggest that the best way to actually encourage players to create unique builds and be distinct is to give them a handful more points than they need for their goal. But that’s just my opinion, and you’re all probably as tired of hearing it as I am of rehashing it at this point.
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Yeah we’re not happy with the defeated penalty and we’re open to ideas for alternatives. We need something that is simple to explain and understand.
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What alternative ideas do we have?
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Should you be able to take a Skill that partially or full limits the effect of the defeated penalty?
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If we stick with an XP penalty, what percentage of your current level should be lost?
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Ideally we want something that hits new and veteran players equally.
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We want a balance where players are cautious about being defeated but also don’t flip the table when they are. This needs to add some drama to exploring and combat. The past solution with a defeated penalty negation skill resulted in zero drama.
Ideas?
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i like the xp loss best so far.
here is an idea that would make dying depend on where your xp bar is.
when you die you loose a percent of this levels current xp. if you had 100 xp and you lost 5 percent from dying thats only a 5 xp loss but if you 10,000 a 5 percent would hit you a little harder.
I like the gamble that this option would offer. also instead of being to harsh (like losing durability on all tools) or not quite harsh enough (loosing a smal set amount of xp) this would sometimes be harsh and some times not so bad.
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penalty in cubits? like 10% of what you have (would encourage spending it regularly as well, instead of hoarding)
to respond to all set of questions and starting from this:
here is an idea:
Maybe make it random? Characters is defeated and goes to Sanctum - a Wheel Of (mis)Fortune rolls and a player loses something (xp, cubits, coins, tool/weapon durability, etc.). Maybe there could be a small chance of avoiding penalty?
An epic skill reducing it would be nice, but only partially limiting the penalty. It could either increase a chance of “no penalty” event on the Wheel , or change the draw into a player’s choice (still a small chance of no penalty; if penalty applies, a player gets a list of penalties from the Wheel, and he/she picks the one that suits him/her most).
Well, I’d say 10% is just about right. Reduced to 5% with an epic skill.
Does the idea above covers that? Would it be equally annoying/challenging/motivating for players with both low and high level characters?
Agree. That’s why a defeat penalty reduction skill (if its introduced at all) should only decrease the costs of defeat to a certain degree.
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ouch! I would rather loose tool durability
however I love the wheel of misfortune
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It’s a tough one because it should be punishing but not offputting.
- Limited duration debuff with effect on energy (or regen, if that’s fixed), health, healing and DPS. Possibly a positive on incoming DPS.
- Too weak to warp/portal debuff
Depends on the penalty chosen. Fully is a problem because as we see on Live, if you plan to play in a way which makes death likely you have a must-have skill cost and that isn’t good design. I would say partial, up to 75% or similar.
It should not be XP at all but if it must be it needs to be tempered in some way - like a max cap on XP lost per level or similar. So perhaps 5% a death up to 5x per level.
Hobbling active play for a short time with a debuff that targets a -% effectiveness across a few key stats would do that.
Wow, just me who gets plenty enough internal misery from chastising myself about the defeat then. 
I think the gear penalty was better. It sucked but not as much as XP. It also hits everyone equally because higher chars would have better gear. If the “Bring an iron bow only” to the hunt is a problem then the stat debuff meets the target of it being a punishment that isn’t avoidable through meta-gaming and doesn’t undo progress.
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I would like to add to my idea, that the existing debuff after defeat should stay anyway.
Just so there is some sense of sickness/weakness from being temporarily removed from the physical - coming back shouldn’t be too easy. (Makes me think about sleeve sickness from the Altered Carbon).
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Reduce XP gained and luck for a non-avoidable period after death (1-2mins?). The main reason then why players would try to avoid dying is an interest in loot or XP - which covers almost everything possible in-game.
This also doesn’t affect what has already been earned making it less likely to feel bad but still punitive enough to be something to avoid.
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there you go. i like this one!
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I think we are going to have to think outside of the box here.
What about a penalty to luck?
Going long periods of time while avoiding death can grant a lucky boon on the player, granting better drops and rewards. However, repeated deaths cause a temporary unlucky bane that reduces luck for a period of time, with repeated deaths stacking this effect to until no items drop.
This would affect hunters and miners of any level equally, while not discouraging players from seeking challenging gameplay like dangerous dungeons or parcore courses.
Edit: @OmniUno get out of my head please!
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While I have enjoyed the ability to die without penalty, I can understand where that does remove some of the drama to combat and exploring. Here is how I would answer @james questions.
1 - Alternatives. You could force someone to sanctum when they die for a set period of time (minutes). This would probably have a negative effect on how hunts are organized currently, but it could be applied equally to veterans and newer players. Other than that, affecting xp is probably the best choice.
2 - Personally if you are affecting xp, I would not offer a buff to limit the effect. If you want to keep the drama of death, then it needs to be consistent and unavoidable.
3 - I would probably keep it at 10%. I wanted to say 5% but that is because 5% does not scare me the same way 10% does.
4- I am not sure that this affects veterans and newer players equally. As an example, if you are hunting, both players get 1000xp for tagging a cuttle that is killed. if the veteran is level 50 he/she takes a 10,000xp hit. while the level 10 player takes significantly less. They both get the same xp for identical activities but the veteran is punished more. Unless you fix the xp hit at a specific amount, there is not much you can do about it. The method in testing might be the best way even if it is flawed.
5 - I will reluctantly agree there should be a penalty. If this is a PvE game, then loosing to the environment should have a cost.
Edit: I like @OmniUno 's idea a non-avoidable penalty to xp gain and luck for a few minutes. Cumulative to maybe 30 minutes?
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I rescind my idea, this is better.
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You can make pretty good axe weapon with the forge 
, but i understand your point, i would like a melee weapon also.
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Remove Luck skill point and make it a buff. For more items you loot, the buff increase and if you die it decreases, If you do not play for “x” time you lost this buff until you restart to loot items.
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If defeat penalty remains as is (xp reduction), maybe it would be better if a character loses % of xp from last 30 minutes?
I mean - I might be in the middle of hunting and get 30k xp in that period, so 3k penalty upon defeat seems fair. And its the same for lvl 10 and lvl 50 hunter - you both kill a lot of highly rewarding creatures and when defeated you lose chunk of that gain.
However if I’m in my base as a crafter/builder on a higher tier planet - I tinker around, maybe meet someone, give away some items to my people etc. and don’t do things rewarding xp-wise, and then I get jumped by a vicious creature or fall into lava lake outside my base, then losing 10% of my xp bar seems harsh (if I have a lot on it).
If penalty is based on my xp from my last 30 minutes, then those moments in game that are more about socializing than getting xp won’t be punished by large chunk of my xp, and that would seem fair.
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