If you are using an augment type item to determine storage size, rather than making it a forged item, make it a compacted item like the rest of the augments.
I already have dollar, ehh, coin signs in my eyes! More forged gear!
Joking aside, I really do not mind that at all to be honest, it’s probably going to be something that can be easily forged and thus also cheaply sold as well…
But I do know some out there do not like yet another forged tool…
Possibly make it into an augment that can be cast from a totem? That way it isn’t RNG and doesn’t require a new tool, just a different color of augment.
Edit, nevermind! I missed that during your initial post with furniture augment lol
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Ehmm, warp/revive augment already look the same, what about adding a red one or something that when put into a totem can change ONE closed storage’s size to be one bigger???
They don’t even need to be easy to make.
Of course, a red one with a number in them, 16, 24, 32,40, 48 is also possible and that they are more difficult to craft the higher the number of slots it will turn a closed storage into…
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Yeah an augment that adds a few slots, and you can apply more up to the max, seems simple. I have no idea if that’s in line with what James has in mind. (Or TBH how simple it really is to implement).
Also i was thinking of something you applied to/placed in the furniture item itself. Casting it from a totem would be interesting I wonder if that would be simpler to implement.
A series of increasingly expensive or difficult to craft augment type items makes perfect sense as well.
Also when he mentioned the forge I immediately thought of forging the furniture itself which is not appealing to me at all.
@AeneaGames mentioned that the forge could also produce an upgrading tool that could then be used on the furniture. This would simplify things for most ‘consumer’ types but would still lead to variable upgrade costs subject to RNG I would think.
All interesting options, with pros and cons. It definitely is already inspiring a wide range of implementation ideas a couple of which I wouldn’t have thought of.
It seems though that almost everyone is a fan of this sort of decoupling.
Yeah, just remove the AoE boon on spanners and change it into Capacity Enlarging boon… Won’t add any additional rng either and solves two problems in one fell swoop!
I suspect it would also need to consume much of the item’s durability, making it perhaps even single use. Or requiring a new, very expensive forging gum.
The cost of forging ingredients and achieving say, a single level 3 boon is nothing compared to the difference in cost between a basic and ornate container style, so it depends on how much of that value the devs place on the functionality of the item vs. its cosmetics.
I use copper axes for resource farming on lvl 1 planets still, and strait up silver on the level 3s, since they one shot with my skills and have high base swing speed.
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If you’re willing to consider a compromise like that, then I think there might be an even simpler one.
On recipe per size, per material (So, I guess it’s 20 recipes instead of the current 15). Then just use a tool with a block-type changing boon (so something that already exists) to cycle through the skins on the storage blocks for that material.
I thought boundless was the gold standard in voxel mmo, last I checked most voxel games are not MMOs, just have multiplayer options.
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Aren’t there some pretty huge minecraft servers? Either way, what I meant was Minecraft was the gold standard in voxel survival multiplayer games.
Fair enough, little antidotal here on my part. I spent 12 hours with minecraft got bored, never went back, progression was simple, didn’t feel like there was much to do, exploring felt tedius and no good way to get back to my base… etc.
900hours later in boundless and I am still wanting to play almost every day. I honestly feel in my eyes boundless is the gold standard for sandbox mmo, and voxel game in general at this point. and this is in an unfinished state, at this stage of minecraft’s life I don’t think it had even half of what it has now.
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Minecraft is a survival builder sandbox, with elements of multiplayer as Fiffer said earlier.
Player servers are just an additional thing to the game. Multiplayer is not a core thing of this game. To me this does not make it an MMO.
Boundless is an MMO builder sandbox. Players are online in-game, and you do not need a personal player server to host multiple players online. (since it’s already an mmo)
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I can only think of one other true MMO voxel similar to BL…it’s not Minecraft (MC has changed a good bit since it first came out too -it def didn’t start out with the options it has now.)
I can’t wait to see what BL looks like in 5 years.
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I won’t speak to how other people respond to things and whether those are complaints or not. For me, I don’t complain directly and usually provide solutions or ideas on how to change the models. I’ve made 1 comment about concrete in public (once it was revealed to the community). So I’m not involved in how others respond or their views.
Concrete might require science and engineering but it clearly wasn’t impossible for earlier civilizations to create it. Now if that is “technically” different than iron reinforced concrete in people’s view, I am fine with that. I don’t know what “type” of concrete the developers feel this is. So it really comes down to if they feels it is an advanced type or not. I’d define my opinion on where it should sit on the tech tree once I understand that view of theirs. Until then I think it should be considered simpler than marble.
I don’t know of any major prestige system adjustments after the one where the started tracking density of materials. For me, any change means nothing because I don’t agree with prestige and how it is linked to other game play. I see it as only a system only used for a leaderboard (at best) that should not link to footfall or city ranking. I don’t have a solution on what might replace it.
Some people do build on the look of the blocks, but for many they decide by prestige to fit their design versus actual ascetics in my view. If we didn’t have prestige at all and just the look, I feel we would have a lot of different looking builds, cities, roads, etc. Some do not care about prestige at all and build accordingly but there is still a group that uses that in their factor.
I would agree that the overlap of those types of “builders” causes more issues and in a way forces many into decisions they might not make had the systems not existed.
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Personally, @James when I’ve tried to promote my view of the approach on storage size versus player build and look, I think the above goes more in alignment to what I was trying to communicate.
By abstracting “size” from “look” you give the community a lot more options in how we build. Those options I think are VERY important to us builders. We can still have a progression of items based on look and type and style, but also still have the storage size we want based on another factor and some other “cost”.
If the way to adjust the storage 2, 4, 8, etc. is via a Forged recipe (non RNG) it still gives people more options than being stuck with “gleam” for the biggest storage. Personally I would lean toward a transformation chisel so that we could easily cycle through things, but I am unsure if that is a “unique tool” or just adding an application that could be applied to a chisel. I don’t want a unique tool, just an easier way to apply the “storage” change to the boxes instead of having to forge each and every storage box. I greatly fear that “forging storage to change storage size” will lead to more grind versus “forging an existing tool to change storage size”
Is a “transformation chisel” a unique new tool requiring modeling?
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Marble:
Refined (twice processed) Rock Refined gleam Bonding Agent * Glue > bones > sap * Orbs * Ancient Vital Essence (refined material) * Fresh Vital Essence (refined material)
Concrete:
Sand Water A Plant (can be gathered or grown)
I feel like the concrete is much simpler than the marble.
As I understand it several things happened, significant enough to refer to it as a “new” system:
- Base prestige values were changed and variance reduced considerably
- New bonus/multiplier conditions were added
- Existing bonus/multiplier conditions were re-factored
I realize that may not affect your feelings on a prestige system overall, but that’s the reason that I refer to it as a ‘current system’ and an ‘original system’.
Several people have mentioned this since James’ post so this is more of an open question than something directed at xaldafax but do you guys feel that with the difference in ingredient costs this is really realistic?
Also are you envisioning
- Ornate Wood → Ornate Stone → Ornate Gleam → Ornate Metal
or - Basic Wood → Stylish Wood → Ornate Wood
In either case I see this as requiring a rebalance of the recipe types to avoid the sort of situation james mentioned earlier regarding only one type being crafted, then changed to the more costly or desirable form.
I think that’s a pretty separate issue from a case where you craft a basic, stylish, or ornate wood container, and the ingredient cost/difficulty affects the container style, but they all have, for instance, 16 slots.
Then you apply some sort of upgrade, (presumably an augment or forged tool use) adding 8 slots repeatedly until you reach your desired size, up to the maximum of 40 slots.
Or, alternatively:
Then you apply some sort of upgrade (similar to an augment) which adds either 8, 16, or 24 slots depending on the upgrade type with larger upgrade levels costing more ingredients and possibly being harder to craft.
I have to say when James made the post originally I thought he was talking about putting the furniture in the forge. I’m not sure if that’s what he meant, or just silliness on my part.
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I guess I meant just simpler in a general aspect and less prestige and not specific to the recipe. When you look at the recipe, yeah it is kind of simpler for sure.
Thanks for clarifying what you meant on the prestige changes.
That is what I feel is a nicer solution. Let the look at material of the chest be one thing based on a recipe and the sizing be another part. I personally would prefer same cost to change size but could deal with it being a bit more for larger ones.
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My favorite idea so far, personally, is a simple, consistently craftable item that adds 8 slots to any container that isn’t already at max. It could use something like the augment system either as a totem augment applied to the item or like a tool augment installed into the item, whichever is easier to implement.
With a single upgrade method/device adding the same number of slots each time, the stages would presumably cost the same, going from 16 to 24 slots would have the same cost as going from 24 to 32. In this way people can upgrade according to their means and over time.
Where with a series of upgrade devices it could cost more to add 16 slots than the combined impact of adding 8 slots twice. This, though, would imply removing the ability to add slots to the same storage device at a later time.
Unless there were, perhaps, separate upgrade items/requirements for each stage.Then it would be possible to upgrade as desired, all at once or over time. Getting from 24 to 32 could cost more than the upgrade from 16 to 24, as well as requiring the separate upgrade to 24 slots first. This is IMO reasonable in terms of cost/benefit, but perhaps overly complex to implement.
In the end and since I’m rambling I would rather have a forged item (either some sort of upgrading tool or even forging the furniture) than no upgrade system at all. If the bespoke implementation cost for something like an augment makes this a back burner item, I wouldn’t cry about the forging being used to get it in game ASAP.
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Neither. I’d envision costs being based primarily on the number of slots a storage unit contained (with a smaller variance for the base material used): 16 → 24 → 32 → 40. Then you could use an existing boon (block changer) to cycle through the skins for the given material. This would give people the ‘progression’ of crafting more expensive but better storage units, without forcing them to chose function over form.
That only sounds simple until you delve a little deeper. For example, how can these containers stack cleanly and intuitively when any container could have a variable number of augments applied to them?