This game should definitely…

Suggestions
42

You are stating to remove the grind, would that grind be gathering the materials to craft, crafting the item, and building with said item?

That is the only grind I am aware of. A casual player is not going to be in a rush to do anything and if they are and only playing 2-3 hours a day as compared to others that spend 8-10 hours a day and you simplify the “grind” to accommodate for the casual player then the 8-10 hour players suffer and just blow through all the content.

Soooo…detailing those three:

Gathering

A player needs a lot of items to craft everything in the game. Gathering those items isn’t grindy for me unless I want to craft crazy amounts of something. Do you really want/have to craft EVERY item in the game? I know I don’t at least not in MASS quantities.

An easy one for example: I have a huge concrete shop as do a few others. Crafting concrete is super easy pretty quick, and the only real “grind” would be the growing and harvesting of kindling. Kindling (and all farms) when planting sucks so AOE harvesting might be nice, but to say it’s a large grind would be untrue unless like me and people like @Jiivita who have HUGE farms of kindling. I also made millions of blocks of concrete do I need that much? Nah.

But if I were doing a build like my color storage that is 4200 plots with much of that being Dark Grey marble (Thank you Foxxy!!!) then making that much marble would and should be a grind. I don’t technically need that much marble, now do I?

Crafting

We have all debated this over and over. I dont find the game very grindy and I play it a lot. I craft a lot, I buy a lot, I build a lot I even hunt a lot. With all that it doesn’t feel grindy. What would feel grindy is sitting there and crafting a MASS amount of something and starting at it all day.

In my color storage I had the stupid idea to use silver octigrid, black enriched compact peat, compact silver and a few other blocks that take a long time to craft in mass quantities. I simply placed them in the machines and went out and worked on another part of the storage or I went mining on a sovereign, or did a hunt, or gathered bitter beans, or any number of other things that I enjoy aside from crafting and then I logged for the night. I came back on the next day and hey all my crafted materials were done. It didn’t feel grindy at all.

I do agree though that the timers could be cut in half as I have stated before, but completely removing them isn’t a good idea. Either way with or without them I’d still play it.

Building

Building isn’t grindy unless you do a huge build. Building in any game is grindy if you do a huge build. This includes Creativerse, Space Engineers, Minecraft, 7 Days to Die, Lego Worlds, Rust, Eco, Last Oasis, Trove, and so many other games, as building just takes time especially large very intricate and detailed builds.

I gave out quite a few keys (20 ish) to people that have tried the game and most of them left because of the New Player Experience. They got plopped on a planet with no idea they could have warped to me or close to me as it doesn’t explain that at all. They had no tutorial to follow and no idea just how large the game was. The few that did make it past that were people I walked through the game (including my son) and he plays a lot of games and said the beginning of the game made him feel very lost and alone. Once I helped him understand the game and how big the universe was and could be… he was hooked. He has never complained about the grind, and the few people that I know that stuck around never complained about it either, they mostly complain about the lack of people playing.

All that said, remove the economy and you can remove the crafting timers and it magically becomes no grind at all and the purely creative game you desire.

The BIC continues. (Boundless Identity Crisis)

1 Like
43

What I meant is the amount of grind is excessive, not that it should be removed entirely.

So we either have to have a game that caters to the few players that have 8-10 hours a day to play or the ones that may have 2-3? I vote for aiming for the players that have 2-3. We have a game that aims at the 8-10 hours and it has hardly been successful. As far as players playing 2-3 not being in a “rush” I disagree with the categorization of those players. A player needs to feel a sense of accomplishment and if all they got for 3 hours of grind is a pile of rocks from mining then how is that rewarding? Too many of the existing players assume only playing 2-3 hours a day is a choice. People have jobs and other responsibilities that can make it impossible for them to play the 8-10 hours a day even if they wanted to. And I would argue those are the players that could have the cash to help pay for the game through gleam club, buying cubits or whatever else Monumental may have in mind to generate cash to continue to run and develop the game.

I will not argue the last 3 points since they are based on an assumption of removing the grind.

Finally I am not and have not ever argued for the game to entirely creative and do not appreciate your implying that I am or have. Making the game more accessible for more players is not the same thing as making it a creative game. The successful game I brought up (Space Engineers) is not a creative game but does require effort to mine process and then build out bases and ships. This can be done solo or with another group of players just like Boundless. However it does not take months/years of grind in order to get enough materials to build a huge base or a large ship. It has a much better balance that allows casual and non-casual players to both be able to feel a sense of accomplishment.

I had a different experience with the keys I handed out. While they did feel the new player experience was bad ( and I agree with you this has to be addressed), they left because they kept hitting walls where the only way out was to grind away on boring tasks like gleamball mining in order to level and be able to do more and/or have to grind away for hours to generate enough coin to purchase a forged tool in an attempt to lower the grind only to end up in a loop of having to spend a great deal of time to grind for enough materials to sell to buy the next tool before actually getting materials they needed for their own planned activities.

I will not disagree that Boundless does have an identity crisis and I do think that at some point, Monumental is going to have to decide what kind of game they think is going to be more successful. I think Wonderstruck tried to make it one size fits all and that has not worked out well.

1 Like
44

I apologize for this and didn’t mean to imply or generalize you.

I do agree there is a fine balance that has to be made for a core game loop that caters to both the 2-3 hour player and a 8-10 hour player. I play a lot, have 2 kids, work a full-time job and have a 2-hour commute to and from work, but I still dedicate a lot of time to the game.

Sadly, if we take for example Compact Coal. (Thanks @Dhusk for pointing out Compact Hard Coal)

Compact Soft Coal = 2m per block to craft
Compact Medium Coal = 4m per block to craft
Compact Hard Coal = 8m per block to craft

Let’s cut them down…

Compact Soft Coal = 30s per block = 200 spark and 500 power
Compact Medium Coal = 1m per block to craft = 400 spark and 1000 power
Compact Hard Coal = 2m per block to craft = you guessed it 800 spark and 2000 power

People will still complain about these times, but it makes sense. The lowest tier takes less time for less output. The next tier takes more time for more output and so on.

Many games like Boundless from the creative building side have no economy and thus the timers are minimal if any at all. So, it is very hard and difficult to compare Boundless to many of the games in the genre as most don’t have economies. In regard to Space Engineers (great game btw) the economy was not there originally, and I find it a hard game to compare to Boundless.

I hope to write another post about my challenges, bad decisions and overall acceptance of some the choices I made with my color storage as it is a prime example of a grind. Granted that grind was one I accepted.

EDIT: Wow…

Enriched Soft Coal = 5m = 200 spark and 200 power
Enriched Coal = 5m = 400 spark and 600 power
Enriched Hard Coal = 5m = 800 spark and 1600 power

Very confusing … not tiered much crafting timer wise.

1 Like
45

Maybe the real issue is what is the core mechanic of Boundless

Is it building?
Is it the economy?
Is it something else?

If you make decisions that support the economy, you many times make it more difficult to build, such as making recipes that require higher tier goods or color rarity.

If you make a decision that favors builders then you can impact the economy. One example I can think of is when black gleam was rare until someone rolled it on a sovereign and now it is common.

I think the tension between these two mechanics creates a great deal of the tension between player opinions. It will be interesting to see how Monumental goes about trying to balance the two or if a decision is made on what the core game mechanic really is.

1 Like
46

Agree fully. I’ve said it a few times, remove the economy and you can do whatever you want with the crafting timers and other issues.

I do however enjoy having an economy.

47

I think this right here is my main thing. If it’s time to re-invent Boundless under the new leadership, it would be good to know what it is. Define what you’re going for and then streamline to that end.

48

Why don’t you start a new character and see how long it takes to get the basics set up - that is starting machines standing in a plot of grasland?

1 Like
49

I have several times to prove a point. I’ll do it again today and record it. I’m not saying it’s easy… what I am saying is it shouldn’t be.

Or should it?

2 Likes
50

I’d like to see more races definitely. The big hands and feet are kinda weird lol. They also look dumb. Never been a fan of the models. I’d like to see something more sleek, not GRUG with the glowy stones.

The collision box of mobs is… really annoying. It’s not accurate at all thus it seems like they have some sort of invisible protection field AND they can push you but you CAN’T push them which is STUPID. This means when they block your way, you either die fighting them or you stand and wait because they are the chosen ones and you are the NPC so better be patient.

Also, when you sit still in water the guy is still swimming likea dolphin which is also stupid. Lietrally an unfinished animation sso it feels cheap af.

I’ll dump more later.

The start? Yes. In the start you have a beacon and machines sitting in a grasfield which is messy and annoying. You ned to be able to build quickly and quickly organise your ■■■■. Minecraft solves this by being able to MASS CRAFT chests 2 seconds into the game. Problem solved. Not to mention this game has soooo many items evn in early game so stuff gest messy easily which is also annoying. We ned organization 2 seconds into the game and no machines sitting in a grasfield which is dumb, ugly and annoying.

2 Likes
51

I’ll record 3-4 hours today.

52

Yes, exactly. Minecraft and other voxel games take 20-30 minutes tops and you’re building your first comfy base and decorating it, buzzing your mind in a creative trance instead of a braindead grind. So?.. players refund the game.

1 Like
53

Also on a positive side note, I really do like the grappling hooks. I love dangling down a mountain and gathering the mats in it. Really comfy. Game needs more of stuff like that. Just adventrous exploration and material scavenging with the grapple hook into dark endless pits and caves and huge mountain walls. Very comfy. Or just cuting down trees while dangling all over it. Really fun imo.

1 Like
54

If I did not have help from others and hade to do the new player grind. I would have quit 2 months into the game. It is not the grind that keeps players away, its they don’t feel like there getting anywhere when they see other players with shinny weapons they cant even try to get yet and there already 50 in a few days of game play just moving rocks around and trying to figure out how to get all the machines you need for these things and most players just telling you buy it for now, only some players willing to teach others how to forge and make stores to build coin and not do it to have you do stuff for them, and you feel like you getting robbed when other players telling you how much you can make on your own .

The game needs a level 50 in game kind of guide on what weapons/gathering tools and protecting needed for what kind or planet you are going to for certain items you can only get at that tier.
I am not saying it tell you what kind or forge effects (that’s subjective) you need on your gear but more like this works here you need this to stay alive here
or when you go to a planet it warn you and point out what state is needed to stay alive like when you 1st start the game there is a arrow that shows you how to start things like building tables and beacon ect.

Remember not all players talk to others for help they want to figure things out for them self’s its the fun in things but a in game guide for new things you can do now because you picked this state or a faq section where you can look for the answers you want with out having to speak in game and have some one joke around and tell you the wrong thing or take advantage of that player.

This will also help guilds recruit or not have to baby new members/players on every thing about the game , they can just say hey do you want to mine or whatever and the player can go find out for them self if they want to do these things not have others convince them to try or walk them though every reason they want to do or not to do something depending on what that player is looking to get out of boudless

2 Likes
55

Why do mobs aggro through terrain? If I’m underground or there’s ground/blocks between me and the mobs they get angry because I’m near them. That’s unfinished coding and feels cheap/lazy. This was ok in beta but three years on?

‘‘angry hopper/flying alien sounds’’ where is it? NOWHERE. God.

Also, why is ther ice next to lava? Feels like a terrain generation bug, feels chjeap/lazy.

20221109192153_1
20221109192153_11920×1080 249 KB

20221109192124_1
20221109192124_11920×1080 371 KB

Never been a fan of the “textured on rocks”. Looks dumb and cheap. Makes the world feel more unalive than it already does. THE ROCK ISN’T REAAAL, NEO. Yuck.
I dropped Wildstar waaay back in the day because they didn’t have a single ‘‘real’’ rock in their game amongst other things this just made the world feel unalive and dead/empty and CHEAP. Meanwhile WoW had SO many meaningful lore filled place and ACTUAL ROCKS/BOULDERS. All rocks in Wildstar were textured on so I dropped it a week later while I pre-ordered it lmao. 6 months later the game was dead and a year later they shut it down. Please, delete the textured-on rocks. It looks so dumb and cheap and ugly. Seriously. Same with gravel and other blocks. I really really REALLY hate the textured stones that look like ‘‘many stones are in this one block’’. No. Stop it.
A sticky NOT REAL rock on the underside of a block? Dude…

20221109193839_1
20221109193839_11920×1080 226 KB
20221109200302_1
20221109200302_11920×1080 326 KB

56

Sorry foir the heavy negativity btw. I don’t mean my sour spouting as bad. I’m, I like the game but do have some issues with certain things that I’d like to see adressed/inproved upon in the future. Thank you for reading my blog.

1 Like
57

i do think the lava ice thing is ok since mountains have snow on top, but every thing else you said sounds and looks like a valid poinT. I hope more players let these things be known because we all know the game needs to change with the community out look on things talking about what improvements we think are needed or can be done should be encouraged .

1 Like
58

This close tho? Do you know how hot lava is? I mean you can further the debate by saying you shouldn’t be able to walk close to it either but that’s where we ought to draw the line for gameplay’s sake.
Where I’m standing it shoudl be impossible for there to be any ice whatsaoever. For hard ice blocks like that you need at least -1C. If you were to get that near to liquid lava in real life, you’d be dead because where my character is standing, it’d be about 600 to 1200 degreees celcius, whicxh is I think 1000-2000+ fahrenheit. Something like that. So, quite out of place. Hot liquid lava landscape with… ICE.

Also, please have heat emmiting apparature melt snow. When I place a torvh and it’s snowing my torch gets… snowy? Whaaat? And the surounding snow doesn’t melt? Whgaaat?

59

they would just have to add a distance from this should be before melting but the putting lava in glass would not work any more also then water would not sit in blocks also it would all fall out into the next block, yea there would have to be a lot of changes but if they want to be more realistic but might also break the game for one thing heat

60

Well, they don’t have to do it immediately but I am expecting it some time within the next two years tbh.
This deepens immersion. Quite important overal I’d say.

61

Please make 3rd person a viable option with a good camera. Some, like me, prefer third person.
Having the camera right behind the character hinders. It’s the same way minecraft does it and it prevents you from playing third person which is a shame. Cam should be a bit over the shoulder so the character isn’t in the way.
Thanks.

3 Likes