Would it be possible to change the properties of water passing into a beacon? So as it stops having a destructiv effect when moving from outside a beacon into the beacon of a player (If the source block does not originate inside that players beacon that is)
3 Likes
Okay, that was a misunderstanding on my side.
But do you all see, that the biggest problem would be caused if fluids would be transportable? I mean if you are far enough away from fluids or if your builds are higher then the fluid it cannot effect you in any way.
And a way to play with water is given by my pipe examples above.
Thatâs probably way easier, then changing the current logic of water.
And the answers on this can be clearly answere [quote=âjames, post:21, topic:3787â]
? Fluids canât flow into beacons ?? Fluids can only be placed in beacons ?? Fluids canât be placed but must be diverted from their source ?
[/quote]
Fluids can and should flow threw beacons, so people could use for example as transportation. If someone fears anyone could cause a problem on his property with fluids, just stay away from it or adjust your build.
No, fluids should not be placable at all because there is no essential use that cannot be solved different.
Yes, fluids can be diverted, but according to the current mechanism it will not make a long way⌠But thatâs not a problem anymore.
2 Likes
Agreed - I stated the same thing in my post, with a possible solution to transportable water âŚ
So you can only really move water from container to container. Pipes would also work as well, but would rely on the use of beacons to protect the piped area. Which leads me to your following statements âŚ
If youâre far enough away to not be griefed, you will need to use a lot of beacons just to protect pipes.
It also raises the question⌠why should people have to compromise their builds, or forego building a farm close to water (if/when farming is introduced after initial release). Youâll always get people that want to build a nice waterfront property, or underground (below water source level), or just with the fore-thought that water (or lava even) may play a bigger role in a future update.
Anti-griefing measures, in my opinion, should not just be reliant on players having to some how know that they shouldnât build so close to a water or lava source as someone else might grief them.
I think the removal of the ability to create a new water source is a step in the right direction, as this will negate the most immediate threat of someone just dumping water/lava around your beacon. The only other issue remains with water/lava diversion - which has potential to be a drive-by issue, that would eventually be resolved by either plugging the divert yourself, or waiting for world regen to fix it.
It only really becomes a permanent issue if the griefer beacons the actual diverted source. Which may just mean that they were unaware that their water/lava diversion had caused issue elsewhere.
The current mechanism is only a placeholder as flowing water has not be converted to the C++ build as yetâŚ[quote=âjames, post:1, topic:4247â]
Next week, we will be making a small update to release some of the final C++ porting features, such as making fluids flow and creatures dropping items.
[/quote]
Your trench idea would prevent griefing damage to your build, but I wouldnât want to see everyone needing to dig a trench around their builds to protect it. Although that may be the only plausible solution to preventing diverted sources.
Iâm still in favour of allowing water/lava to flow through beacons as people will want this as itâs an additional creative resource, and it removes the less than ideal invisible barrier from the game. I donât think preventing it from flowing through beacons will stop griefing either (although it will prevent actual damage to your build), as your could still potentially surround someones beacon with a wall of water/lava.
2 Likes
Fluids flowing through beacons⌠scares me a bit.
Example scenario:
Someone places some water (or diverts some water) into your beacon. Those changes outside the beacon will be regenerated⌠meanwhile your beacon has random water inside of it that isnât even connected to any source blocks anymore since the beacon is not regenerated.
conversely, you place water inside your beacon, and it flows outside of the beacon. The world regen will regenerate away the water that flew outside the beacon, but the water in your beacon keeps flowing outside againâŚ
5 Likes
Wouldnât the water just go away when the source is cut off? Or what do you have in mind for future water physics?
But yea the second point was something I wondered too. But wouldnât the regeneration be so slow that youâd hardly notice the water disappearing and flowing out of the beacon again?
Regeneration cannot be allowed trigger world simulation to occur, as it is utterly trivial to end up with an infinite loop of water flowing/regnerating/flowing/regenerating etc.
So stop thinking about âplaceableâ water. It can potentially cause too much problems. And as you maybe read in my former posts, just decorative reasons would justify placeable water.
Or do you still want to be able to place fluids somewhere by a certain reason?
And diverted water should not be the problem. Just build far enough from water or higher then the source block / lake / river / sea.
Assuming the water can just run 7 blocks away from itâs source, there is not even a problem with beaconing too long ways of pipes. One beacon of the current size would already make it to have you far enough.
@Stretchious I can understand your worries about substractions in creative possibilities. But this is better then having bugs by infinite loopsâŚ
So what is your approach to solve that problem?
Maybe make flowing water not regenerate if it would dissappaer and only if a block would replace it?
That would be the easiest solution I could think of without a drawback. Except for not full regeneration outside of beacons because flowing water would not always regenerate.
Tricky problemâŚ
@Smoothy The problem luca is talking about, is that if you let flowing water from inside a beacon regenerate outside of it then youâd have a constant loop of disappearing and reflowing water.
2 Likes
The issue is, it doesnât even need to be placed fluids .
If you divert fluids and then beacon it⌠the diverted route that leaves your beacon, is not the original path it would have taken, so world regen would still be in a state of flow/regen as @lucadeltodecso stated.
I get the feeling that this is not going to be solvable in a way that everyone will like - even though that way will be necessary.
2 Likes
I also think that allowing fluids to pass through beacons is a major no-go (without even considering the technical issues @lucadeltodecso mentioned, there are just way too many ways to abuse and grief with such a system)
So imo âblockingâ beacons with a smart subset of rules would be the only suitable solution for that.
Rule 1: Stationary fluids remain stationary
In the moment you place a beacon any fluids inside of it should become completely independent from fluids outside the beacon (and vice versa) which means that following 3 situations would be possible:
Water inside & outside of the beacon | Water outside the beacon but not inside | Water inside but not outside
With pink as representation for beaconed area
Please ignore the glass
While maybe allowing some strange looking builds this rule would prevent any form of fluid griefing while also enabling a lot of awesome builds like :
Or simple entrances to underwater builds.
Subrules: Stream annihilation and source generation.
I don´t know how doable this is but it would be a supposedly simple way to allow beacons along rivers and waterfalls while keeping rule 1 intact
I used glass to represent beaconed space
According to rule 1 placing a beacon in the path of the waterfall in picture 1 would lead to the waterfall of picture 2.
Adding two (supposedly simple) subrules could prevent such a behavior:
- Stream annihilation: If a stream of fluid has contact to the surface of a beacon it gets annihilated instead of being derived (red areas in picture 3).
- Source generation: If a beacon detects that it has to annihilate a stream of fluid it automatically generates a source of the fluid on the corresponding adjacent block. (green areas in picture 3)
This rule should only apply to natural fluid streams (streams that would also be present in a fully regenerated world)
Source blocks that are generated due to this rule should be added to the ânaturalâ state of a world (Donât decay due to world regeneration & regenerate if they are removed)
This rule would obviously only be checked once in the moment the beacon is placed.
These rules would not only prevent people from griefing your beaconed property but also prevent people from altering large areas of a world by simply beaconing & removing water sources (which is another big issue with water manipulation that hasn´t been mentioned yet afaik).
E.g.:Beaconing the head of a waterfall and blocking the water source to remove the entire waterfall (and the potentially following river) from the world would be impossible since your beacon would automatically generate a new source directly where your beacon ends. So a potential griefer that wants to drain the builds of several players could only drain his 8x8x8 plot(s).
Hopefully this was explained in a somewhat understandable way 
And last but no least:
'#teamslime
3 Likes
Your idea could still alter the flow of naturally generated water though which would cause the before mentioned problem to appear. I think at leastâŚ
Again I wonder if it would be possible to change a fluid type as soon as it enters or leaves a beacon so it becomes non destructive.
Can it? I donât think it can alter the flow. Just inside the beacon it could, but no outside, if I understand the logic right.
- is the natural flow. you beacon the area on itâs corner, so you have a water source in your beacon.
Even if you flood your complete beacon with water 2), it should now come out at places where ânaturallyâ no water exist.
No it would not be possible (sorry, maybe I explained it poorly) but my suggested rule-set would allow that, independent of what you do inside your beacon, the fluid stream in the rest of the world would stay the same. So if you place a beacon along a river/waterfall and remove/block all fluids inside of it would still look like this:
Just with a new independent source at the bottom and a vanishing water stream on the top instead of actual portals 
2 Likes
Ah sorry I interpretted it as it would appear on the opposing site of where it is intering. Which could move the water in strange way.
I think you would also need to consider what would happen if the beacon was subsequently removed.
If you had flooded your beacon with water - or at least diverted in a non natural way - what happens to those water blocks when the beacon is removed ⌠would they just disappear?
Also, if the beacon is removed, youâd need to revert the water source block at the bottom of the beacon back to normal flowing water.
Even though it would solve the issues, Iâm not sure I like it, purely as it seems like the water just magically disappears and reappears. Iâm not sure if thereâs a better solution though - if there is, I donât have an answer for it! 
2 Likes
Well I´d say that they´d just regenerate like anything else that isn´t beaconed.
Exactly my thoughts while writing this.
But I´d take strange interrupted water streams over trolls at the head of each waterfall any day.
Just imagine the frustration that would occur if you build a nice house in the middle of a waterfall just to see a troll blocking the stream above you and beaconing itâŚ
1 Like
Fluids cant pas trough my âforcefieldsâ XD
but the forcefield make water to steam and lava to stone,when the fluids touch them
and it lost health in this process⌠but we have beacons i forgot 
1 Like
My opinion about water pumps, generators and pipes is, that generally it is a great idea. Generally. Which is not actually great to the extend that water becomes an abstract figure in the game with pipes being used. Water only would be visible in a form of texture on a transparent pipe. On a closed pipe, you would not even be able to visually reconstruct the water flow, and the amount of water flowing, and the speed at which it happens.
Assumed you build a pipe out of metal blocks which are simply aligned in a straight line with one block attached to the previous, youâd have a very simple way of connecting two ponds or rivers or a water source to your farming field. Again it would be fun and (almost too) easy but abstract.
If you could actually build a pipeâs surrounding, which means the hull of a pipe - and then let water run through, Iâd find it far mor challenging to canalise water and pump it somewhere. It also would fit much better into the grid system the graphic engine provides.
For example: We have stone slabs for walls. They are half the thickness of a brick block. If youâd use the slabs to build a pipe element, it would not become too thick in diameter. Also youâd be able to adjust how broad youâd want the pipe to be. And youâd actually have a pipe hull then. Youâd actually be able to âswimâ inside of a pipe. Adjust the diameter and therefore the amount of water running through. Place a pump at a strategic point of your pipe and adjust the pumpâs strenght and at this device. You could swim through pipe systems or even use it a transport system for items or chars with a strong water flow combined to it. Build a pipe out ot glass slabs, or wood slabs, stone or whatever material is provided in a world.
2 Likes
I like the idea, but then itâs hard with the physic rules i described (water pressure / energy).
Itâs matter of what devâs want to implement.
I donât think your idea is trivial to realize. Maybe itâs possible in future somewhenâŚ
the idea of âglass pipesâ sounds amazing. The imagination to see how the pump is sucking the water in and pushing out sounds amazin or seeing the turbine flooded. Of course you probably will just be able to see something running if the system (pump +pipes + water connection) is constructed. Same with the generator. Cause it would not make sense seeing the water entering and no water leaving the pipe
However, glass pipes would be nice.
A channel or tunnel to slide in sounds complicated, especially when you want to connect it with a one-block-big pump.
But I guess you can already guess, how complicated it is to use fluids in any way (as you saw all the discussions above)âŚ
I think there are other, easier ways to create transport systems. I would not use an artificial water system in the first placeâŚ
1 Like
Of course, a water canal for transportation would take up an enormous amount of time to build and even sort of architectural plans would be necessary. And in relation to expenditure for Wonderstruck ⌠well tiny team. Not intending to squish them to mash by throwing out utopian (for this knd of project) ideas.
Iâm just a big fan of immediately recognizable game mechanics. It is not as practical as having stats and numbers instead, but it has an appeal of seeing - realizing - thinking - and acting according to it. It goes hand in hand. Itâs like a visual puzzle, in which you can estimate an outcome, rather than precisely defining it via parameter. Thatâs what creates the players saying âit feels like this, it feels like thatâ. Or at least one important part. Everyone prefers different.
But yes, I think I get your point. Letâs see what the devolopers have in mind and hope for further surprises.