Weekly Dev Update: 2017 August 11th to September 29th - 2 Months of Toil


#101

As often before some players would like to experience in Boundless the same things they know and enjoy from other games.

Maybe try to look at Boundless as a possibility to discover a new style that doesn’t have to be less rewarding or enjoyable.

I started playing Boundless as an anti-voxel player. And I did bring my own taste and habits from other games. But Boundless gave me so much fun and challenges that I suddenly forgot about all that I wanted from the game and started developing taste for whatever this game offers.

Why not try to be open-minded and start liking and appreciating things different than what we are used to?

And to be true, the Devs here really listen to people even though they have quite clear picture of what they want. We already made them shape objectives system along with our suggestions etc. But I hope they don’t agree to all possible ideas cause that can change the character of the game too much. And why would we want another WoW or MC?


#102

There is no technical limitation on the number of plots a character can have.

There is a limitation on the claimable plots per world as each world is a fixed size.

There is no technical limitation on the number of worlds in the Boundless universe.

There is an economic limitation on the number of public worlds as a proportion of paid worlds.


#103

Paid worlds?


#104

private worlds which players can rent


#105

As much as I would like to have a god full skills character I don’t think it would be a good idea in my opinion. What I don’t love is that some of the main attributes can be useful for different types of characters, say a miner and a hunter both benefit from upgrading power and luck, (or at least I think they both do) and because of that I find myself choosing similar skills from that subsection of skills on different characters and stops me from truly having variety on the skills I pick, I think maybe there could be specific skill points just for the attributes and make the specialized skills stay not max able. That way you could eventually have a pretty strong character in many ways but still not able to do everything in terms of the role they can have. Hopefully I was clear enough xD I think this is the longest post I’ve ever made :stuck_out_tongue:


#106

From the looks of it, this will be the case in future releases.
The new props will make having all the crafting skills more desirable for crafters, atmosphere for explorers, and hunters will have many more - revive, rage, lances, bombs.

I think the devs have a lot of ideas left to play with the skill tree so I guess we should wait and see what happens :slight_smile:


#107

I appreciate you providing this. I think you probably feel you are being bombarded with “demands” for information versus polite requests right now. I know I would prefer to ask questions or frame my side of a discussion with as much information as possible.

I work in Technology and I know sometimes people do not appreciate the effort it takes to just keep things running and the additional effort to make things better and add features. I am as bad as some of the people in my office and I need to say thank you for the work you all have done and continue to do.


#108

@boundmore, saying that I should try to be more open-minded could be very offensive but I won’t take it that way since you have no idea who I am or what I do in real life. I’m 47 and my career and life has been about breaking down the status quo and helping businesses and individuals look inward to evolve, rethink, transform, and change culture. So I am live WAY outside of the box you think I am in.

I have provided plenty of posts show I enjoy this game and appreciate things… but none of that or many of things people brought up have anything to do with the points I keep trying to make in regards to the “builder” experience in this game. I think other people need to be more opened minded and remove themselves from their current perspective and start playing only an ALT from scratch and try to build a community or multiple projects. Let’s see then how they look at this game when they put a “builder hat” on.

It’s really simple now that we know there is no technical limitation to plots people can have. Why is was 20 and 30 and 40 plots a level ok before for months in the game but now it is not? Why is 10 plots per level the limit (without forced social interaction or economy model) for those that want to build and protect the landscape around them. I’ve spent 600 hours in game stuck at earning 10 plots or less the whole time. Now I will never move past that and just have to keep grinding.

@james, thank you for the information. Clearly there is no limitations here. From the builder perspective I guess we just don’t understand why 20, 30, etc plots a character level was ok in this game for many months. But now it is not. Because the developers haven’t provided any justification beyond a simple “they weren’t being used by many players which burdened them” we really just can’t rationalize the reason or understand. We never heard people complain they had TOO many plots. Always that some of us NEW people (without thousands of plots) really wanted more. So no wonder we don’t feel heard…


#109

Insult is taken not given so I’m glad you decided not to take it as none was intended.

We have a very similar style of play I think. I spend 80% of time playing solo and I like to be able to gather resources myself and craft them then. To build my own portals and be able to fuel them on my own. Etc etc.
In The first half a year of playing Boundless I actually played all the time solo.
I also like building and I am constantly short of plots.

However, I don’t feel it’s a bad thing I am restricted in what I do, be it number of plots I earn or amount of skill points available for me.
I am not totally happy with all the game features and balance but I try to see a bigger picture and go above my selfish expectations.

So. Even though I mostly play solo and I hv dozens building projects in my head I have a different view of the current plot and skill point reward system. What I’m saying is having expectations very similar to yours I have a completely different reaction. I see that what devs are doing makes sense and it doesn’t have to be all my way. In-game experience can still be great.

What the game is proposing in terms of plots and skills available is in my opinion good. I agree with alts as an idea as well. All that because I know I am not the only player in the game. And as much as you can claim people will leave Boundless for this or that reason I might as well claim changing things will make people leave too. No game can make entire player base happy.

My point is there is no right or wrong here. Simply enough devs must make some decisions and the ones they are making now can be discussed, but to play a victim of false advertising and projecting players exodus as well as claiming that one should or shouldn’t be forced to play in a certain way is a bit of a stretch or overreaction in my humble opinion. These were the reasons for my previous post, not the points you made about playing as a builder as they are valid and worth discussing.

Long story short: not all players that like to play solo and build big must be unhappy with current plot or skill point limits.


#110

is not entirely accurate…

This basically comes down to real-world finances, which would be the cost of Wonderstruck renting servers for use as public worlds, offset against the income of player rented gated/private worlds.

Public world requirements would essentially be calculated by how many players can concurrently play on a world and how much viable building space that server contains. Each world is 4608x4608 blocks, giving an overall ‘surface’ plot (8x8) size of 331,776 plots.

Now take into consideration that (I’d imagine) no one wants a world to become one massive city (I hope!). So realistically not all settlements will be that close to each other. People will want to start their own guilds and settlements and would want a location to grow when the recruit more players to their clan/group - so they’d want a buffer between other player groups (or even randomly dotted solo players). I’d say probably one half (165,888 plots) to possibly two thirds (221,184 plots) would be taken up by player plots per world - the rest would be wild lands in between settlements - everyone wants a buffer.

Using an example of just 1000 plots per player … This would essentially only allow for ~166 to ~222 players per world (based on the horizontal placements of plots it would take for those players to cover enough of the planet surface to effectively prevent other players from wanting to use that world due to the perceived space limitations mentioned above).

Ok… so it’s been mentioned in various places that there are likely to be 50 worlds at launch. I’d imagine that these can be sustained for probably a fairly lengthy undetermined amount of time without additional financial income (remembering that Boundless is a pay-once-play-forever and not a subscription-based game model)… but not indefinitely.

There’s currently a player base of 16,627 ± 3,779 players (source), so you’re already now looking at a requirement for a minimum of 75-100 worlds to be able to keep that player base engaged to the level you propose without adding new worlds or an additional income stream. With a max limit of 5000 plots, you’d be looking at even more worlds… 375-500… just to sustain those current players.

This is an extreme view of how the plot placement could occur, as not all players are builders, not all players use all their plots … players wouldn’t forego building vertically, just so they could try and cover a whole public world to keep it for themselves and their friends (would they ??)… you get the idea… but, you have to view these things in their extremes to know what those limits are so that they can be accounted for and mitigated.


TL;DR

So… whilst some may see no reason that we can’t all have a readily available allocation of 5000 plots to build whatever, wherever, however we want… there does need to be a realistic limit in place to prevent the above-mentioned extremes from ever occurring. It’s simply a case of finding the right balance.

Addition Note: What we’re seeing now, is a balance pass … part of it’s purpose is to gauge player feedback, as to what is deemed fair/unfair or reasonable/unreasonable, within those changes, so that a realistic happy-place-for-everyone middle ground can be found.

… and remember… Boundless is in alpha … nothing is set in stone.


#111

OK I am not trying to cause problems but it might be cool to build a Coruscant where the world was one large city. . Imagine looking at that from an adjoining planet. The glow from all the lanterns. It actually could be very cool.

I like looking an Epsilo where there is a building that circles the entire planet. It is very cool :slight_smile:


#112

OK, so it would be cool, I agree … but not for every planet :wink:


#113

And we have only 12 planets and unlimited plots and have not had a problem yet, even with builds over 5,000 plots. The complaints are that the worlds are too empty and the cities are abandoned not that there is no space. However, I do agree that the public worlds are going to have to be supported by the hosted worlds. I also agree (begrudgingly) that the developers do have to take into account the mathematical possibility that if everyone has 5000 plots we might run out of space. That does assume every plot is horizontal and not stacked (which you mentioned). Even with my largest build I probably only took 70 plots horizontally with the other 136 stacked. I wonder what a good number actually is? I think 320 at level 50 and 10 for each level (or whatever we call it after the highest level) is too little and 5000 for everyone at level 50 is too much. Maybe that is the discussion to have with the developers.

Do you think someone would reach level 50 and then start griefing to claim land just to be in the way? Sounds like a lot of effort to be a $&#@#$^.

I agree that everyone does want a buffer, but there is no way to prevent someone from building immediately next to your plots or removing a mountain or lake that you built next too without using plots to claim it. Any suggestions on this or is this just a fact of life when playing on a public server? It might be something that you cannot really do anything about like your neighbor in the real world painting their house pink (not that I have anything against a pink house).


#114

I agree not for every planet, but just one. Pretty please :wink:


#115

I don’t think they’d do it to grief per se… but a big enough group of players (with high level alts as well) could certainly look to take over a planet if they had enough plots between them (especially if it was a newly deployed planet). Once blanketed, they could then just cherry pick the places they wanted to vertically expand upon, without anyone else being given a chance.


#116

Fair enough. This is one reason why I suggested that groups of plots (owned by one player or their alts) require more fuel the larger they are. Maybe 2 x for 500, 3 x for 1000, 4 x for 1500. Or maybe make it higher for the total plots owned by a player or their alts on the entire planet versus an individual build. That might mitigate the issue, but maybe not eliminate it. It is kind of a tax on being a building but since a builder can impact others fairly directly maybe it is necessary if the plots counts are going to be increased.


#117

Yeah I think we have a lot of the same view… For me I’m all for the best multiplayer and team work oriented game but I know how hard that is to achieve because of “people dynamics.” So because of this I want to ensure the most fun for me as solo player just incase the “multi” part doesn’t work out well.

Just like if I was having an almost perfect experience in this game as a solo person I would be pushing for more multiplayer stuff. I’m just not there yet on the solo part. :slight_smile:


#118

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but I would like to see dual spec options. That way you are still playing your “Main” character which I can understand people wanting to keep their play to one character. If there will be feats and achievements associated with the game I would personally rather only play with one character so I can earn any feats or achievements on my “Main”. The dual spec option worked very well in World of Warcraft and it would prevent players from being god like while still allowing players to be able to do everything on one character. This could also be locked behind a long grind that is enabled after you reach level 50. At that point you can unlock a dual spec skill and start earning skill points to invest into your second spec of your choosing.


#119

that is actually a really good idea as that would mean that you can do everything with one character with out having to switch alts all the time to do things you cant


#120

really good idea in my opinion dual spec would provide a good compromise especially on max level. Let’s say you need a specific amount of coins or items to switch your specs but with the same char.

This way you still have to make choices about your playstyle but at the same time you are able to check out different roles. Also a cooldown mechanism simular to the cleanse points would be nice so you don’t switch around all the time without thinking about it.