Would this affect your purchase?

I guess actually botting would totally break the economy since it’s easy for a single bot to cover most of the current user needs if it’s about resource gathering.

I don’t mind some QOL improvements 'cause I feel the need to improve crafting and block transformations.
As it was said before we need:

  • button to fill whole queue of machines (as a crafter/builder you have days where you fill hundreds of machines at once which not only requires a long time but also puts quite some strain to your finger’s joints due to the amount of clicking required)
  • an easier/automated way to transform blocks (a machine for doing so would be great - having AoE on transform chisels would be a huge improvement but it’s unlikely to happen since AoE on chisels in general might cause issues)
  • allowing us to paint like 10-25 blocks with a single spray can using a machine (not only to improve the way how blocks get colored but also the blocks per spray can ratio which is ridiculous right now)

If people use some scripts or keybindings to avoid clicking their machines I totally don’t care unless it affects the player economy. I can understand why they’d do so, I just reject to do the same because there’s always a chance to install malicious software if you install autoclickers or whatever from random websites. :wink:

Emergent Gameplay, oversight, whatever - they straight called it an exploit to the surprise of myself and many others who weren’t even aware. How could crafting blocks be an exploit? It’s the definition thing again I guess. SO hard to avoid.

Then james got mad when a bunch of people called the fix a nerf :rofl:

As with bomb mining - use of elements of a game system in ways not intended by the game’s designers. If they approve it’s emergent gameplay. If they don’t it’s an exploit. I guess.

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@QuimbyBoundless
Just like it’s an exploit to use plot protection to gain more land then plots available.

It was intended to be used as a “buffer” so that forced settlement merging wasn’t a thing any more.
But the …(bad word)… here was it wasn’t fully realized.
As its used as terain reservation with multiple beacons and used within existing settlements.
And in existing settlements it’s causing so many issues that even those cry’s fell on deaf ears at some point.

So yeah plot protection can also be seen as a exploit and is game breaking depending on how players use it.

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As boundless is now i would still buy it simply because of thing that aren’t available in MC for example. If i where to go back to MC ill probably get frustrated by the limited block choices and colors.

And that is ps view

Pc view would still buy it as it’s a few € for a key (upgrade it to deluxe to as i need the 10% plots)
:wink:

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There is a machine to paint blocks. It doesn’t alter the spray to block ratio though.

More useful sprays and more sprays per can are changes currently on the test server for - a couple of years now.

Anyways the tool in the OP was able to to handle all of the rest of that as well as gleamball farm, orb farm, fragment farm, trunk farm, soil/mud farm etc… Anything that came as or from a block.

It also came with arguments that it was “hardly AFK” because if you buff up it only takes 7-8 minutes and your inventory is full anyways. You can slow roll for less attention (and save a couple coins) but with a fast tool that’s only giving you roughly 20 minutes. Another number that came up today. :stuck_out_tongue:

IIRC if you have a friend (or a second PC since you’re already macroing) I think you can manage a full inventory in something closer to 5 minutes.

Also if you can surround yourself with some friends or alts you can multiply the unattended time by the number of inventories you have to fill.

You’re right, totally forgot about the tinter. I never used it tho because it was one can per block just like manually painting blocks I think. It’s something I wouldn’t use as a builder because it’s more efficient to just paint single blocks that got placed unless you can paint with a better ratio beforehand.

Yeah, my only issue with the tool shown by the OP is the regen farming part since it “creates” goods with profit having an effect to the economy.
I wouldn’t mind the others since they just improve what I’d expect to be improved at some point anyway and are more or less just affecting yourself.

The same goes for the EXP farm that was posted. While it generates exp it doesn’t have any other profit and instead rather burns resources (due to having to repair stuff but not gaining resources). I wouldn’t want to have loads of ghosting people around me farming exp all the time but I also don’t think they would do this for like forever because you’ll reach a point where you don’t even need any more plots and would rather need resources to make use of having them available.

I noted in yesterday’s video @QuimbyBoundless shows roughly 8k cubits earned while editing the video. I forget the amount he had from building the rig.

Quimby would you be willing to share a rough estimate of cubits per hour at full swing?

For reference it’s 331,776 plots to block off a public world completely.

You’re trying to simplify a very complicated thing. You’re putting ‘holding a couple buttons down’ in the same camp as ‘using bots to play the game for you’. These are very different things. Even if the genre is the same, afk gameplay, the process is not.

Using known and acceptable game mechanics vs cheating is literally the difference here that you’re trying to pass off as the same thing.

Also, in reference to your poll, If you’re not gonna buy a game because some people cheat… stick to Monopoly. Even then, good luck :joy:

Normally, I’d agree with a post that is against botting, because nearly everything I build would be moot if botting was allowed (which it isn’t, and that’s obvious). But this post was directed at Quimby’s post, proven by the salt you edited out.

And in terms of nerfs happening and affecting other peoples gameplay. Equally the opposite can happen. If you knew the amount of great features that have been added into the game because players used ‘clever use of game mechanics’, you’d be celebrating such posts.

However, Montys expertise, I believe, is in monetisation and cheating (gave a talk on dealing with cheating players). So I think we’re in safe hands. Personally I hope he removes the monetisation of cubits, but that’s my opinion and a discussion for another day.

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I did discuss and clarify that particular mis-perception with him in PM. Obviously it came from that thread. It surely didn’t regard his OP or it’s content, but arose from certain tedious things that came up later in the conversation - and have of course crept into here a bit.

I assume you’ve read most of the thread to comment. I cleaned up some of my trash and explained what I care to publicly. I think I’ve clarified my point on that specific matter enough. If you have specific questions PM.

Yes hopefully then he will have the expertise to make himself clear on this matter, as james apparently never could.

I mean if it’s going to follow me around, whatever. I find in my opinion that there is a good bit of cognitive dissonance between these two statements.

I’m saying that if you are using something outside the game to send input into the game - it doesn’t matter what you are using.

It seems a lot of people are not aware that this is and has been a significant issue in Boundless. But of course it has, and of course it’s not that much different from any other MMO probably ever. Why would I show a picture like that? To point out that it’s not just some vague “bogeyman” thing.

I would love for this to not be cheating.

Current guidance says this is acceptable as an aid to active play, but not to enable AFK play. This is a rule-based situation right now and hopefully we will have clarity in the coming days. Finally. I’ve literally kept asking again and again since the game was new.

Here’s my deal, I love creative people and their ‘solutions to the grind’ I r not smrt.
I’ve played Korean games where AFK leveling was expected and catered to. I’ve played games where it wasn’t AFK leveling but darn close to it, and the devs didn’t seem to mind it? At least it’s clear as heck and out in the open.
But, Boundless leveling is tied to more than jsut skill points, it’s tied to possible income lost for the company (cubits). In this current world of ‘I want to play my way which doesn’t include paying money’ (and I am not aware of the motives of anyone in the discussion, only expressing why I don’t like it here), this costs them revenue and that’s just not fair, they are allowed to expect a return on their investment.
How do we expect them to do glorious things without our financial support? As long as leveling is tied to cubits (a very valuable asset), I am not a big fan of AFK mechanics or botting.

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Thing is they also broke it them selfs… cubit gain…
Thats the issue and feel pretty bad to say it bit with many ideas pushed trough the dev team didn’t really think it trough.

They mention change in lvl gain and a lot went grinding cubits wouldn’t be changed as far as I understood. The release was almost ready and nothing…. They should have atleast made it an priority then to push the finish and update the game.

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Right :+1: :100: AFAIK They clearly asked us not to do this.

But apparently I’m not a skilled enough semantic analyst to understand that. :man_shrugging:

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well than why is it more effektive to hit a glowing ball by holding LMB for a longer duration and regening the area again every few seconds than say go mining? The reward mechanic for a game that costs 50 euros is pretty easy: Make gameplay rewardable and repettitive tasks not by diminisching returns for example. You could make a system by which hitting the same kind of Block 90000(99 blocks per tunnel, about 2 seconds for that, 1800s per 20 miutes what is a good amount for this mindnumbing task so about 100x900) times in a row will start decreasing special drop chances like sap or Orbs or xp
Th9is will than again be reduced by mining ores for example or doing something else vor 1h etc etc.
it is an very easy fix and it is normally easy to implement

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They have this. Apparently all parts of it. The XP limitation is obvious, they cranked the drop times down so hard once it fully just broke manual regen farming for resources. So they backed it off again.

well i can assure you that they dont

Edit: at least not around january last year

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Fair enough it was an easy find.

It wasn’t a drop delay that got out of hand it was another bot protection:

Apologies.

EDIT: Meh, I kept reading and you know what:

They appear to have had both systems running then. Or an attempt at it.

These issues really have cost a lot of dev time.

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Whilst I completely agree that we are in need of a very very clear response on this from the Devs, I also think we need to delve into the more explorative side of why a player might use one or all of these methods?

I will give an honest account of my personal use of any of these “software/hardware” solutions.
I had never used any before and so it was all new to me to try and use these things, which in the end I found to be too much of headache to set up and always had issues with getting it right in the first place.

CRAFTING

Reducing 30 clicks to 1 was enough to drive me to use an auto-clicker - this was and still is something I use, isit cheating? ancient oortian theorists say no. the advantage is clear less finger strain.

Implementable Solution - the coveted “craft all” button that we desire, bye bye clicker.

General machine interaction compared to other games where crafting is a huge gameplay element is actually pretty nice, but again loading a specific amount of resources into a machine/furnace etc especially when you are doing a big batch becomes a chore.
Unloading the finished items particularly when you need to do this to ensure the queued crafts keep going becomes a chore.
Combined with the multiple crafting clicks the interaction clicks became a chore.
This was enough to drive to me try and learn how to effectively use macros with some element of scripting to be able to place things in a machine/furnace and hit craft/smelt, and then another to be able to empty them. I don’t use this anymore since this was the around the time when this topic took off and since we didnt have a clear answer I stopped. Full disclosure I wasn’t very good at it in the first place and the results were never consistent.

Implementable solution - there are probably a few ways, having an empty to inventory and an empty inventory button is likely needed along with some smart storage. MC has it, scrap mechanic has it even craftopia has it, let us link or shove a storage to a machine and then Bob’s your uncle…bye bye macro for this purpose.

Moving on, crafting typically requires the use of more than one machine, so the above ties in where you have to move stuff from one to the other and hit click again…
This time I was totally unable to make something that worked flawlessly and so gave up pretty quick.

Now tying in this and the above point James did mention something along the lines of being able to set each machine to craft a specific thing so far as it had the resources inside to do it, so I’d assume he would not have said that unless it was possible.
Not a end all solution but definitely an improvement, especially if we have smart storage.

this is where I go meta and say hey why bother with machines at all right?

we have a form of mass storage already with the reclaim system, I know I use reclaims as smart storage the only downside to them is the way you take things out otherwise indexable colour organised its perfect.

So better storage using systems that already exist and that can be linked in someway to your account. now you have the best of both worlds, storage boxes with an interface that organises what you put in, and still being able to have separate boxes for things if you wish.

The ability to send things to storage directly from inventory would be nice too but would probably get cumbersome in execution.

In creative, hit the knowledge tab find a thing and hit give right? so in normal mode hit the knowledge tab and hit craft. if the stuff is in your global ledger of items boom it crafts and then you select if you want it in your inventory or sent straight to storage.

Bye bye machines…bye bye lag…bye bye complex object limit reached…

XP

We all need it, some of us want it more than others. The issue here as far as i can see is when you want it in huge numbers and really quick. Can’t control everyones desire and appetite for it, already have measures in place to avoid some exploits.

What do get it from it, well levels and then cubits. Coin not so appealing, hitting achievements can be decent, but lets be real here other than the update that never came where we thought we need to make as much XP now before the system changes it really comes down to cubits and plots.

That desire was real, I farmed gleam and refined it like there was no tomorrow to max level atleast one character. I also did it to get a number of plots that I just couldnt justify parting with that much cash for (personal choice).

Gaining resources kind of also ties into this, I have seen with my own eyes people using bots to farm sap on one occasion, a conversation with someone who got annoyed at a friend who admitted to having made a bot to farm at this person’s sap farm and numerous encounters at gleam ■■■■■ and low level soil/sand farms. I cant say I’ve seen it since the last time this was a big subject.
Anyway at the time I wasnt hungry for xp, but what did hurt my butt, was that these people were getting resources on auto pilot regardless of how much input they might have had to put it to place themselves correctly or eat food or empty inventory they were forgoing the motions.
In my eyes that was and still is unfair.

Holding down action button while you move around? I take no issue.
But having your character do all the things and then regen bomb at the end and start over? no thanks.
Should i care? probably not because its a game and i have no idea what they were using the mats for not that it matters but it did and would still bug me purely because once set up its probably quite effortless.

Solution? we have a dev answer on this I believe which is a resounding no, but being able to stop it? I dont know enough at a technical level to know what could be done.

My opinion is just that, its mine so my comments above are not aimed at anyone they are tied to my emotion and thought process.
Being able to gain XP using the rather creative method that has just come about? I see no issue, it can be done on both platforms.
Being able to gain XP or resources using an actual bot or whatever you want to call it? I dont think its fair.

Whats the difference between the two anyway right?
IMO the intention,
Programming a bot to effectively play the game for you for personal gain, there is clear intention there and frankly puts the PS users at a huge loss if its condoned.

Using the games mechanics to do something is a non issue and if its a game breaking issue “exploit” then it should be addressed by the Devs.
Again its no easy feat to repair a million coils (unless you write a bot to go with it :D) or use my spanners, on sale now at the TNT Megahub.

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I did not vote.
But I will add a bit …
Even if there are bots as part of the base game, I would not be one to use them.
-unless- it was a few mouseclicks to use.
I am not tech savvy at ALL.

As for exploits …

The google search definition of exploit is as follows :slight_smile:

“a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system, typically for malicious purposes such as installing malware.”

So … if botting is happening in a game, the question could be … are they allowed, encouraged, ignored or cause a game ban?

As stated above, most games that can -will- have bots.

For me it’s not whether or not there are bots present … it’s how that games owners deal with bots.

Are there players removing so much game content that other players can not enjoy the game as intended? If so, what is the game owner doing about it?

Typically if something is part of a game you will have that certain set of people that will flock to that thing. Others don’t care about it so much.

I’d be interested to see what Monumental’s stance on the subject is.

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