Would this affect your purchase?

General
41

image
image864×301 22.8 KB

It’s apparently just as hard to nail down a “commonly accepted” definition for some of these terms as it was to get a straightforward answer from James, I guess.

At this point this is what we’re mostly all waiting for.

With regards to people feeling the need to say stuff like “I’m not embarrassed” or “I don’t feel guilty” and the fact that we’ve been left hanging on very basic QoL issues for years now - I doubt if there’s going to be any trouble about using an autoclick setup (software or hardware) during your game play.

James used the word “disability” :

The truth is trying to play without some assistance would give us all disabilities. And I’ve only seen one person straight up use the word “cheating” today. :thinking:

Nonetheless I feel like everyone is on the same page about that.

These guys did crazy amazing technical stuff to get this game going. They built the engine twice (at least) and in the face of people asking since before the game was even officially released - never added a “craft all” or “move all” feature?

As for the more complex stuff:

Me too. One thing I’ve gathered with this thread is that if it’s OK with the devs, it’s going to be OK with most of the players, and we’ll get things balanced out.

I don’t want to argue any more about whether or not a weight on a keyboard is a “known and acceptable game mechanic”. I also sort of assume that most people commenting by now will have not read most of the thread.

Absolutely please still take a moment to share your thoughts, even if it’s already been said.

I’m not looking for affirmation here, I’m trying to gauge a majority opinion, and hopefully - if Monty’s feelings on this are not crystal clear - then community input can help steer some new guidelines.

Best case of course, who knows if he will even take time to skim over this monstrosity :man_facepalming:

1 Like
42

Its been long time debate is botting allowed Or not… Devs always said its a Gray area… So they havent said anything is right Or something is wrong.
See below

While they said this… Theres still People using exploits that heavily increase the value of time.

I Feel the botting is stupid and i dont like it. Just play the game as its intented… Without some botting Or macroing.

43

There are 2 major issues as I see it:

  1. The user interface needs work
  2. The game design encourages afk play

For issue one, there are multiple areas where the user interface is just clunky. Why on earth is there no craft all button? Any decent user interface designer worth their salt would have foreseen the need to be able to load up a machine when designing the user interface in the first place. A network engineer should have pointed out at some point that sending one message instead of 30 was better for the network. It is just bizarre to me that this is not already implemented.

There are a lot of other basic UI features that I think ought to be added: auto-sprint toggle, auto-run key, mouse running. Is there some advantage to forcing people to hold down keys for hours at a stretch? All I see it enhancing is repetitive strain injuries.

There are also basic QOL features like chisel change machines that really ought to be added.

Coming to the second issue, the game design needs to take into consideration that games are about fun and entertainment. If something isn’t fun, people are going to want to avoid it. If the not-fun thing is necessary to basic functions of the game, then people are going to try and automate it away. That is just how things are, and no amount of punishing people for trying to get around doing not-fun things is going to stop the behavior. If people are trying to get around doing something, then that design element needs to be looked at and adjusted.

A lot of what people seem to be trying to get around doing is gaining xp and collecting certain materials. Why are people doing that. Because they want XP and materials, the design for obtaining those goals is through simple, repetitive, boring tasks that are easily automated, and the boring repetitive game play element is boring and repetitive so people don’t want to do it. The problem isn’t the botters, the problem is the game design.

Some of the game is designed this way because players asked for it. People asked for things to take higher quantities of items so they would be more expensive. This is silly. Forcing someone to harvest millions of dirt to make things like bricks is just asking for people to set up bots. It is a naïve game design decision. If you want things to be more expensive, you need to add more complex gameplay mechanics for people to complete, not request additional quantities of simple, repetitive tasks. I think part of the problem is that the playerbase has gotten so used to never getting any updates that they have quit asking for (or even actively discourage) additional content.

Humans are humans, and ignoring human nature never got anyone anywhere useful. Complaining about it isn’t going to rewire the human brain to be less prone to finding shortcuts to doing things they don’t want to do. Add more interesting stuff to the game, reduce the repetitive boringness of some activities, and the problem will take care of itself. Just my opinion.

6 Likes
44

I mean, people keep arguing that it’s a “gray area”.

@CleoStJames nicely composed.

2 Likes
45

I must be very confused. I’ve seen many posts that state such. “for years”.

Is James even involved with the game now that it’s sold? If not , why keep bringing up things that were said by a previous owner?

Monumental owns Boundless now. They bought it ‘as is’. Which means that once they have a team built to deal with the game, all past, present and future ‘issues’ are theirs to decide what to do with. Unless there are specific contractual obligation stated at the purchase of the game, Monumental can do what they want with … everything. And peons like me have NO clue what or if any of those were stipulated in the sale of the game.

As for the google search on the word ‘exploit’ … I did not search ‘game exploit’. I was just going for the meaning of the word. :slight_smile:

Back to topic …

Ask a different question … since no question is ‘wrong’.

Is botting mentioned by the game creator?

What is their stance on it.

Those are things I do consider when looking to purchase a game. Typically you’ll find more info in the game’s forums or steam discussion than you will directly from the developer.

1 Like
46

James was the “game creator” or at least, the owner of that company. Monumental has just gotten the rights to the game they are not developing or controlling it yet.

It doesn’t matter who owned the game when or for how long regarding the fact that you have to click the mouse thousands of times just to process the output of a normal T6 mining trip into 2nd stage materials.

QoL is a common abbreviation for “quality of life” and it’s not about “fair gameplay” or any of that. It’s just about making so that the game is not physically (or mentally) hard on the players.

There’s a big difference between “a challenge” like trying to fight a mob, and a “quality of life issue” like having to click 30 times on a machine to queue a batch of materials.

There’s not any reason that it should be hard to put your materials into your crafting machine. That’s not “a challenge” it’s a problem.

So on, with several other aspects of the game. For years.

Again that’s James, he was the CEO and representative of wonderstruck who created the game. People asked about macros and such for a long time. The first time I asked was April of 2019 I think.

Roughly a year later, he finally stated an answer. Sort of. It wasn’t entirely clear and as you can see, some people still feel it’s “arguable”. I see that if you’re not familiar with who the people are, you wouldn’t understand why people keep quoting this statement:

Botting + Scripting to avoid actually playing the game is against the rules.
(Scripting as a means to play with a disability is acceptable IMO.)

It’s the only time that the creator/owner ever spoke about macros or bots, clearly and in public.

Now we have a new owner, and people want a new answer. Or at least a clear answer.

EDIT More for others who don’t know the history or why it seems like a big deal here is part of it:

He didn’t make an answer to a thread like this

He didn’t make an answer to a thread like this:

And then he just randomly goes into a thread where somebody is selling coils one day, and makes a solid statement about botting :man_facepalming:

I think honestly most of the older players are so happy for new management.

2 Likes
47

Still there was literally like handful of People doing just that without ever getting any penalty.
I know People have even send videos of People regen mining gleam from exos… Its looks Pretty stupid. And you Wonder how People here say they got 200stacks of x gleam… I Wonder how.

1 Like
48

I sent some evidence myself, not from exos from serpensarindi, and AFTER he made that statement.

I agree you are correct - there was never any enforcement. Several people I spoke to said they had discussed it in discord chats he was in as well. I’m not sure if he cared by then. To be honest I don’t care to list some of the nastiness that happened here. I mean, directed at him or other staff and business partners.

I don’t blame james for giving up. I’m surprised he didn’t just turn off the servers. Of course, there were contracts, so yeah.

Monumental has put their name on the game now, it means they are taking control. If they would give clear guidance on a topic that has been troublesome for a long time then there’s a lot of us that would just happily follow it.

2 Likes
49

While Im happy about it… Im still not really sold To idea that they can do rly anything about it.
I hope monumental is going To lay some ground rules here. Cause i Feel if you allow macros Or such… You should list wich are allowed and what is not.

Only thing that could fix things would be just the infamous subject “Wipe”… But that not gonna happen.

1 Like
50

My attitude in gaming is the same as my attitude in life. Keep your nose out of my business I’ll keep mine out of yours. People want to bot, I don’t care. Do I want to? No. That’s not the reason I play games for. Am I disadvantaged? If so it’s my fault for not using the same tactics. I don’t agree with said tactics? Too bad it’s still my problem, no one else’s. I’ll just keep grinding away. I won’t ask to the developers to change the game, because it’s not my game. I’m a visitor, I payed an entry fee but that doesn’t make me the owner. I can leave at any time. Plenty of other games out there to play if this one isn’t giving me what I want.

4 Likes
51

Yet here is another one lol

52

It wasn’t supposed to be a rehash of the same thread. A bit disappointing but also - not really too surprising. For the same reason I edited some of my earlier comments, I won’t go on about it nevermind I did, didn’t I.

I mean apparently there’s a significant number of players more worried about whether a bot is a macro or not than what we’re actually supposed to be doing with the stuff. And also using some things outside of the game to play the game is obviously cheating but a weight on your keyboard is a … how does it go…

Oh yeah a “known and acceptable game mechanic”. Apparently I really needed that lesson :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

1 Like
53

Well played

3 Likes
54

gib link pls

2 Likes
55

The simple way, I got this gaming mouse.

56

I’m just over here on PS having a good time

Also pro accessibility aids if it helps people although I realize it isn’t what you all are probably talking about :dizzy::thinking:

2 Likes
57

the only reason the botting would bother me is if the game was nerfed b/c that would affect non-botter game enjoyment. it’s pve so i’m not going to get killed b/c of it & maybe the botters are generous & i’ll benefit

1 Like
58

This … this definitely happens. It’s not a game where there’s much cash advantage, little to no market for getting cash out of here. The main reason to push ahead is for plots, and you end up with coin.

Might as well feed the economy.

59

I don’t care if players use their time to run bots or scripts. There are few things which should avoided:

  • Chat scripts/spam bots. Gold sellers
  • Running multiple clients
    • Blocks access to planet
    • Resource availability is lower for other players

If xp scripting/macroing is seen as issue game system will introduce some sort of hard xp gain cap/daily xp gain boost system. It will be easiest way to limit machine like activity instead of locking players out of game. <-- This will more likely happen anyway if/when game goes to f2p.

Game would benefit for own macro system/saved actions. For example actions like fill craft queue or empty inventory. Best if these could be also sold to other players.

1 Like
60

I would just like To know official stand For macros and such. @Tiggs could you speak about it?

1 Like