XP or ITEM trade off - answer to power leveling

There have been a lot of talk around exploits lately: botting and mass gathering/crafting for either xp or coin or both. And apart from ethical aspect of auto-clikers and such, some pointed out to economical aspect of these activities (how too many players are drawn to easy coin and xp, thus decreasing number of players doing less profitable gathering of resources that are crucial to maintaining continuous production of forged items etc. etc.).

That made me think about xp model in Life Is Feudal, where every xp-rewarding activity is based on diminishing return model. They higher player’s level, the less xp an activity gives and player needs to turn into higher tier activities for xp, and lower tier crafting/jobs are only done to gain resources/items and not for xp.

So, what if continuous gathering/mining or crafting will bring less and less xp (amount of blocks broken/ resources gathered vs. time span).
EXAMPLE (mining, gathering): first 15 minutes of breaking blocks xp reward is full, than it goes down every few minutes until it gives tiny bit of xp, after continuous mining for over an hour). That way I would only mine for hours when I want resources but can’t use it for power leveling. A break in activity (an hour? a few hours?) resets the clock and xp goes back to 100% then.
EXAMPLE 2 (crafting): first few mass crafted items give full xp but then every next queued mass craft gives less xp to a point when let’s say items queued 20 to 30 in a machine only give 10-20% of xp. Again - an hour break (or a few hours break), would reset xp gain back to 100%.

So, to keep full xp for every activity, a player would need to switch between activities. Mine for an hour, go and queue a few masses of items in a machine, go for a hunt and then go back to mining.
That’s of course only something that affects when a player have a long session. If someone plays 1-2 hours only, and then takes a few hours (or 1-2 days) break, then xp decrease won’t be kicking much, if at all.

RESULT: nothing stops normal players from playing for hours or doing one activity long - the only thing there would be a trade off (you either care about getting a lot of resources or crafting thousands of items in one go AND agree to have less xp OR want full XP over mass gathering/crafting). The auto-clickers and bots can still do their thing, but they only get a lot of resources, but not xp from it (gleam door situation for example: continuous breaking of gleam only brings full xp for a while then its just getting thousand of gleam without xp). Then when crafting gleam doors - if you want full xp you can have 100 masses queued as only first 10-20 masses would give you high enough xp and after that it would be less and less; and if you want full xp there need to be only up to 10 masses crafted continuously and then break and then another batch etc.

It’s all very vague here - would of course need to be thought over better - the idea is, you either go for numbers in resources and items or for numbers in xp. Botting or auto-clicking would only bring a lot of items but not xp. Also exploiting chrysominter for coin would be blocked (diminishing return could be applied to chrysominter as well - too many gleam doors thrown in together and less coins paid for it).

OK - let’s go all the moaning about nerfing! :wink:

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Were you envisioning this applying from day 1 or only when level 50+?

When applied with good values it may feel less of a nerf.

What I am more concerned of that it dictates a playstyle again. It is pretty much the game saying: “You have done enough of that activity. Please switch”
I think it will be feeling kinda like crafting today. You have to do this amount of gathering before you can mass craft. In the end it requires more planning from a player to be effective.

In my opinion this changes the game one step more into bounded (instead of boundless)

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right away - new players following tutorial and objectives for xp naturally switch between different activities, so xp would not be affected (or not much). Maybe tutorial time could have protective shield is a possibility too.

The thing is that new players are often offered help to power level, like getting top tools and smart stacks of rock (just an example) so they can start turning it to stone and then refined rock for power leveling (add teaching pie here and voila).
It’s not natural that new players with that kind of help progress to lvl 30-40 within hours of play (2-3 days of real time when you add rl breaks between sessions).
I can’t say it has much to do with actual playing the game - it’s living in a power leveling bubble outside in-game interactions and economy with a view of artificial leveling.

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players finding a way to power level or doing the same activity for hours to get a lot of coin fast and sticking to activity that is the most profitable: that’s being bounded;

game mechanics allowing 1 or 2 ways to make fast xp and coin, way better than others, result in players activities being tunneled to narrow profitable choices;

mechanics like the one I just suggested feel limiting, but in result can remove or diminish number of players that have their playing style motivated by profitability and thus (hopefully) making them discover and enjoy more diverse ways of playing

So really you are just changing the bar with timegates for min/maxers. Instead of doing what they are doing now they simply rotate every 20-30 minutes.

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First I do not disagree that something probably needs to be done about the xp power leveling. I am concerned about the diminishing returns but I understand the rationale for eliminating the benefit to botting. I am personally not happy that the best way to level is to engage in activities that I do not enjoy. I do not like to hunt, but if I do not want to the stuck in the limbo that is getting a character from level 20 to level 40 I would have to do it or have it take even longer than it does. If this was to be done, then I would make the diminishing returns on xp occur across the total and not by activity. So as I gain xp, when I get to 100,000 xp it now takes earning 2 xp to get one xp added to my progress. Kind of like the death penalty. At 150,000 xp it take 3 xp to get one xp added to my progress. These may not be good figures but they are just an example. This does not “force” players that want to level to engage in activities they do not enjoy. They just have to do more of anything to level.

I do think that this is also true and at some point the developers are going to have to find a way to make every activity earn the same xp for equal time doing it.

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They would just find other ways to exploit xp gains.
I would not like xp gain to be nerfed.
Yes, something needs to be done, but I do not think we need to be sinking and nerfing things.

Sometimes I like to do certain things for hours. I grind in other games for hours too. If I really enjoy the thing I am doing, then I can go on for hours. Never use bots, or anything all vanilla.
I would be very frustrated if I started to get only 10-20% xp gain, and had to wait 1+ hours.

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the idea is exactly that you have a hurdle that slows down power leveling or fast-tracking coin income; you can switch around as much as you want to - if it takes too much time, you might well just start doing things normally instead of botting or crafting and chrysominting for xp and coin;

instead take part in normal economy - gather resources allowing crafters to provide top tools etc.; if there is no bot-like and out-of-demand activities that are more profitable than demand-based activities, than players might well do things that actually answer economical demand;

When they want to power level they will still be able to do so. It will just require them to switch to a new activity every hour or whatever the interval is.
Hour 1: mining + some mass crafts in parallel
Hour 2: switch to second activity like woodcutting or whatever yields good results
Hour 3: switch back to mining or another character and continue cycle

When I want to do a 3 hour mining trip on an exo I am then punished with lower returns for wanting to play that way. My playstyle goes sometimes on a daily base. One day I mine a lot another I join a 3 hour hunt, yet another I farm for hours or craft to fill up my storage.

The problem with coin gain and one activity being more profitable is a matter of the current market. For example right now we see a big increase in forging mat prices which finally makes gathering activities more worth to pursue. The longer this trend continues the more people may feel willing to follow that activity.
Or we simply need a change in crafting recipes as they no longer match enjoyable play style.

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Personal opinion:
EX #1: The limiting of XP for the gathering portion directly applies against the bot issue as it discourages the botting activity where you are endlessly hitting the same place while AFK to gain XP.
EX #2: The crafting portion only indirectly applies to botting in that this is a result of having a lot of materials to craft at once and all players could reasonably come across this XP reduction.

I would be OK with example 1 but hesitant with example 2.

Suggestion: Would a cool-down on regen bombs help? Right now you can just spam them but what if the CD were 15 seconds? Or would that unduly hurt legit regen farmers?

when you look at how fast leveling can be (even past 50 lvl) and how so many players actually talked about fast skill-pages building, you might start thinking that 10-20% less xp from activities won’t hurt that much

other than that - it’s enough if you gather for an hour then craft 20 masses than gather than craft etc. rather than gather straight on for 3-4 hours and craft 100 masses at once;

it’s goof for one’s mind to be drawn away from doing same thing for too long

There is no requirement that players engage in the economy so I think that basing your proposal on that is not a good idea. If a player or a group of players wants to do their own thing then there is nothing stopping that and the game should not put up barriers to players doing that. In that case the profit is not coin so the supply and demand is merely what the small group needs which may or may not have anything to do with the demands of the wider group of players. If the point is to try and limit the amount of resources that are in the game in order to raise prices or make gathering them more profitable then I am against that.

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I have observed level gain. I still do not think we need to apply an xp nerf across the board.

I do not want to have to change my play style, and how I do things because some players are botting.

Edit: Where are afk timers? Those are popular in games with bots

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I agree with you, I like the way it is. Don’t need more time gates and nerfs.

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This is the game telling players how to play. Today you have 3 hours to play and to maximize your xp you have to do three things. .I think all this does is add to the complaints about how some of the proposed changes in the game make it less Boundless.

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I think decreasing gains might just lead less active players and/or increase use of more alts (or even temp alts to do feats for coins). So nothing would in the end change.

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but it’s something the game needs, to not be cornered into being a MMO broken into several single player pockets

the game offers a lot of different activities - what often happens now is that players don’t do what they like (there is this line of thinking that auto-clicking helps to deal with what is boring); and if we have a game with player-based economy then sure, too many people focused on leveling means that that economy have problems

anyways - why create an open sandbox offering exploring, hunting, building, crafting, etc. if at the end players only want to level up?
it’s natural that game mechanics are made to discourage things that work against the idea of MMO and actual exploring of the game;
of course players need freedom of choice if it comes to in-game activities, but also game needs to defend itself against being a place where players engage the game mechanics and try to beat the game, rather than engage with the in-game virtual world and other players around

there is a difference between exploring the game environment and exploring mechanics to find loopholes and exploits for things like high level or a lot of coins on ones account
it’s not a bad things for game mechanics to direct players towards playing the game (and level plus coins being a bonus and natural effect of it) rather than playing for level and coin hoarding (and forgetting the whole beautiful and exciting virtual world created there to be enjoyed)

That includes building then if I understand your suggestion correctly. Making it necessary to rotate especially when you need to lvl for those cubits…

Understand the point being made but don’t agree with this as most prefer certain activity way more than doing something else. And in hindsight i think this will cause the P2W topic to show its ugly *** again. Or bring up why people just quit playing because they feel obligated to take breaks if the don’t want to do other things.

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You figure out why players want to level up. What do they get? They get cubits to buy plots. They need plots to build so it is a key part to the building part of Boundless. Building seems to consistently be given as a primary reason people play the game in polls so the need for plots should not be underestimated.

Players also get skill points which they need to get the skills to craft, build, chisel, explore and other activities. With the way the skill trees are constructed, players can need a lot of skill points to complete several skill sets in order to be able to do what they want.

If the issue is really why do players try to power level then I would argue these are the reasons. So if these things are not happening in a positive way for the game then maybe the skill trees and the way plots are earned needs to be addressed.

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