Its a good conversation, I think good ideas come out as these sorts of things. Its still coffee time here but enjoy the game!
+1 for the title Mr Baked Sir. ^_ ^ got nothing else to add. Who cares about virtual moneyz lol
Do I think there would be some downward pressure on prices if they were published. Yes in some cases. Take the example in the other thread where player A was charging 700 coin for a hammer that was priced for around half at other places. The player selling for the higher price is unlikely to make a sale. Is that bad? At a certain point sellers are not going to drop prices any further due to the implied cost to produce an item in materials and time. So I would expect prices to be closer across stores but probably never exactly equal.
I think what concerns me the most is that the universe will continue to get bigger and bigger. The amount of time a player can waste running around between shops will only increase. I think the current system does not work for an expanding universe. There needs to be a way for buyers to get better information and sellers to get their information to buyers. New players that want to open a store should be able to make that fact known to other players and a new player should have a way to know what a good price is for an item they want to buy. That should not require the forums or discord. It should be in the game.
In the end the economy is not the entire game, it is just one component of the game.
I think a couple people in this thread who wish to be merchants actually lack consumer perspective.
Price wars sound bad, but lower material cost for buyers who intend to use them would actually increase general satisfaction with the marketplace, especially because more wallet space can be dedicated to either donating to a guild or warping to an exo. Not to mention that price wars don’t occur in all market segments since some scarcity actually exists. Remember I said “nearly” all can be farmed with regen.
Nah, am assuming you’re baked tho!
It equalizes the market, that’s all it does, and takes away the advantage those who ‘marketed’ themselves and established a customer base. It’s like walmart vs mom n pop shops. Is there a way to make it so that courting yourself to a consumer is better than just injecting yourself in to an auction house style economy?
100% the consumer is the one who benefits out of this system, and I dont disagree that it is a good idea. A happy consumer is a happy gamer. But then why run a shop?
Perhaps a system like this for raw goods, but finished/crafted goods would be kept out? I’d assume any type of AH system would require a lot of info, is this game engine capable of such? How would we view forging stats on items?
nothing like a good sativa and coffee.
Ok couldn’t help myself… one last thought as it has come to me.
I guess a lot of my fears of the auction house come from the fact that I’ve played a number of MMO’s and the ones I’ve enjoyed most and become least held back by the economy were the ones without an auction house or global trade system. There have been 2 of them, Boundless and my first MMO that I played way back in the year 2000 called Asheron’s Call. Both games rewarded those that were most familiar with the game and it’s mechanics and those that had a solid network of friends/fellow players, not those with the biggest wallet.
In this game because I understand the mechanics I can have nearly anything I want, I can go out and get it myself, and if an Exo appears when I’m spending my 5 days at work then I have friends that will get some for me, and last of all I know where a number of Exo stores are and I can affoard what I need if the other options fail…
This is again, only the second game where money has never ever been an issue for me, I am not a power player, I am not ruthless enough. But yes I do get to spend a lot of time playing the game… on my 5 days off work and alot of that time goes into helping my friends, not making money.
Because this. I have enough that I don’t need to worry about it but I definitely don’t have enough for that Yacht I want to buy and retire on and I never will, because I give away what I don’t need to anyone who truly needs it.
Not for about 10 years, but the name has been with me much longer
OH AND BIG EDIT: Be nice to each other, try constructive criticism instead of complaints and let’s get over the broken economy thing. I’m pretty sure the Devs have got the point… that a handful of people on the forum are disgruntled. I’m also sure they have the tools to see the in game metrics to know when there is or isn’t a problem with the economy and they will fix what needs fixing in good time, patience. Think of the Devs like your chosen Deity/Deities, they have a big picture in mind that we mere mortals cannot possibly comprehend and in the end they do want to do what is right to make this game successful and I for one believe they are doing a kick butt job of it!
Increasing the tax for auction house purchases so that available shopkeepers who hand trade and market themselves still maintain their advantage with something over price.
I don’t want to rain on your parade or be negative because it’s really not who I am, so take this with a grain of salt. It seems that people who fear the departure of creativity/exploration from the marketplace tend to have an overly grandiose view of what a shop means to most participants, when in actuality it is fairly simple: Consumers need goods, sellers need coin. If the prices are equal, the guy with a 5x5x5 gleam cube can accomplish what the super cool shop build guy can. That is the reality of player-run marketplaces. When is the last time you had a request basket up for these items:
All of these are items that many low-to-mid tier players could have immediate access to sell, and a faster market reference or auction house could help connect them with coin sooner rather than later. Spending too much time shopping feels bad for many, especially when unsuccessful. A market screen/auction house would also ease language barriers for player signs, as well as the pain of using 3rd party resources i.e. Discord, Forums, BTN for PS4 players.
I think I could get on board with that taxation idea, if it were higher than taxes on shop stands I mean. And no ability to skill for cheaper tax prices, like we can do currently for shops.
Finding is, indeed, the most difficult part. We need a better system than PS and Malls. The PS are too disjointed and the Malls, at least the ones I go to, feel more like mazes. I just find myself easily getting lost or unable to locate a specific thing, its frustrating that I lose hours looking. Usually I just end up going back home and waiting for it to craft
I guess my issue with this is marketed themselves how? On the forum or discord? While I can appreciate the effort some shopkeepers go to on these platforms, I do not think that an out of game system should be needed for someone to be successful. As far as hurting the established stores with their current customers, I think if someone is charging a substantial amount more then the customers can decide if they want to continue to support the store owner or not. I am not sure why this is bad.
While I do not think hand trading should be eliminated, I am not sure that I would be in favor of a higher tax for an Auction House Purchase. Maybe have the tax epic only work for buying directly from a stand versus the Auction House?
I think it could work. I mean… time zones don’t always sync up for a buyer and seller, so maybe that would work better.
Dammit for you getting me to come back and reply. And no not because I take offense, I honestly appreciate the thoughts everyone is giving here. So feel free, I respect what you’re saying.
But I think you’re missing the point I was trying to make again, either because I’m not making my point well or you’re choosing to read into what I say and take whatever meaning you want out of whichever particular response you’ve chosen to quote.
I’ve never said it’s the coolest or best build that creates success. Have you ever been to marketplace which shall not be named unless he gives me permission market? The guy openly and frequently says that he is not a talented builder, but yet I think what he has done and still does on his own is absolutely amazing just for the sheer scale of it and that is talent on his own. He has created an entire market basically buying and selling everything available in this game and he does so at very fair prices, and yet he does well not because he is the best price but because he is regularly stocked and because he is well organised and players keep coming back because he is there and they know he is and they no longer have to search 50 planets for the best place.
In fact you are 100% correct:
Totally correct in fact, in a game with an auction house 100% correct. In this game, which offers something different to what every other MMO offers, something more than price matters. He will still get beaten by the guy/gal with the flash sale on a particular item and his “loyal” customers will shop there… temporarily. You create an auction house then you take away everything this guy has worked on to create since this game was created and you give it to anyone who can work the auction house.
You say you aren’t a negative person… yet you seem to be picking at only the things you simply don’t like about the way I think, rather than what I am thinking and offering nothing constructive whatsoever, only criticisms. You should try working on a more positive attitude because you are clearly intelligent and you write very well and I believe if I had that intelligence and ability to write so well I could get my point across better and leave less holes in what I say for you to pick at.
EDIT: If a player can only build a 5x5x5 cube to build his shop stands in, then it’s good that he chose gleam, that will help him stand out. But perhaps he is the one with a deluded image of himself if he thinks he should be complaining that his goods don’t sell and that people will sympathise with him. What he should be doing is finding places to sell… like the flashy marketplace maybe.
EDIT: Work done = reward. Time in game = reward. People wouldn’t spend hours in this game if the guy who plays 1 hour a week gets rewarded just as well as the guy who plays 40.
it still does. the player that can play 40 hours a week will be able to out produce the one that only has 1 hour a week to play. So even if they both operate shops, the first player will have more to sell that the second player. That is just the way it is. But the nice part is the guy that plays 1 hour a week does not have to spend his entire game time looking for something in a store. With an auction house, they can get what they need and then build, or hunt or mine or gather or whatever versus portal/shop hopping (which if they do enjoy they can still do).
I’m glad to see you are willing to say this. I am with you on the fact that I don’t think an auction house is smart for this game in the long run over other fixes. I am happy to see you gave ideas too instead of stating an opinion.
I would love more clarification on this and explaining how you feel it would encourage only one way to trade.
Are there ways we could make it work for more, though? A way to also limit those that are rich or something that keeps the economy fair across the board?
This is probably the only thing I was basically against in your post. I feel this would lead to more floating spam and things that just annoy people and make the game look ugly. We already have flashing or gleam based things which many people don’t like. This would increase that… I remember in EA when Omni tried a sign beside a competing store… it didn’t really make anyone in the game feel happy or better.
I do get what you’re saying I really do, it must be frustrating for the casual guy.
But I think I now see where and why our opinions differ, basically because of our perspective. I’m not saying he shouldn’t be able to sell, I’m just saying he can’t expect to have everything, if he plays one hour a week then really it should take him 40 weeks to attain what the other guy does in a week right? Unless of course he is much smarter about his 1 hour than the other guy is about his 40, probably the case because alot of that 40 will be wasted on tasks that do not progress him whatsoever.
EDIT : If he is only there 1 hour a week then why should he possibly expect to know the best places to buy and sell, I think he should have to accept the best prices he can find, because 40 hour a week guy has spent a lot of his time searching for the best places I assure you.
Like I repeatedly keep saying is that there should be more tools to help the 1 hour guy buy and sell, I agree with that. But again, not the auction house, I believe it hurts the very essence of this game which is to create (i don’t just mean building here) I mean being creative with your time spent and creative about how you essentially fund yourself in game.
This is probably my fault, but people seem to think when I say create I mean build. I mean creative in the broadest sense possible. You may hate the footfall slides, the meteor platforms, the “footfall traps” but frankly, they were genius ways to make coin and in most cases it has been shared amongst many people and to join in was open to the public. (I never participated in the footfall slides or coops either, not my thing, but I still applaud their ingenuity and creativeness)
I agree, it was just an idea thrown to the wind for someone to grab hold of, it was just a thought. But hey… some people like those eyesores. I don’t like the fact the some stranger parked in the middle of my 1000 plot build to create a multi-coloured pink monstrosity in among my softly lit, natural colour toned one. But instead I said Hi, we talked and he’s a nice guy so I haven’t had the heart to tell him I hate his build and instead made him feel welcome and even made him a pink footpath from my road to his house.
EDIT : So many MMO’s say that players have choices, they get to choose how they live and spend their time, this game does. Choose the first basket or stand you come across if you really must sell, or choose to spend more time looking, or choose not to and go do something else you value with your time. No one actually NEEDS money in this game, money only allows you to pay someone else to do the jobs you don’t want to do. You don’t HAVE to go to that exo and every single other one, but if you want to go, then you better figure out how to make the 3-4k required.
I agree, the game is not a creative mode game where you do not have to do something to get something. I think it is unrealistic to expect that a player that spends less time in the game will be able to accumulate the same amount of coin, plots, xp, levels, or whatever than the player that spends more time in the game.
These players are working within the mechanics of the game. Until and unless the mechanics change then why should they not take advantage of them? I may not like how the game mechanics work, but they are operating within the existing rules and mechanics so it is what it is.
This is where we will have to just agree to disagree. I understand your point in players being creative even as far as how they run their shop, but everything in the game with the exception of forged items and some exo related items is a commodity. My advanced refinery power coils are the same as yours. An iron hammer (unforged) is an iron hammer no matter who made it. a cobalt blue marble block is the same no matter who makes it. I guess I value time the time it takes me to find something differently. Probably because I do have less time to play most weeks. If all I want is a power coil or cobalt blue marble, I would prefer to get it quickly and then do something I like to do in the game. I guess I see an auction house as an option and not a replacement. As I said in another thread, I also worry about the viability of the current model as the universe expands. It is hard enough with 50 planets to find something. How much harder will it be with 100 planets?
My forged hammers are the same as anyone else who chooses to make them, I’ve taught numerous people how to make them, I’ve taught and lost several of my best customers how to make them.
But again I think you’re missing what I mean by the word “create” yes your coils are the same, but how you choose to market them is up to you. I bet a load of people know “The Coil King”, because he created a near franchise, he came up with a catchy name, he had shops everywhere, he drove down prices in a price war with someone else, he made a name for himself as the go to guy for cheap coils. That is what I mean by create.
Yep I get that, again, people should be able to somehow get the word out about what they are buying/selling much easier, i.e. a way to make a name for themselves. But I just don’t want to take away from the uniqueness of some truly great places that have become almost like brand names because of what they have done. “The Slingbow Depot” “The Golden Fist” “The Coil King” “Sydney Market” just to name a few. These were the sort of shops I looked up to, that I went and checked out for ideas on how to be successful.
I mentioned something the other day about how sad I was hearing people were minting essesnces, i had 3 emails in minutes asking me to buy which is more than I can handle as I don’t sell marble, etc, I simply use it for myself. So I suggested to them… think about what sorts of people need bulk essences… marble shops for instance, maybe try the big marble shops and see if they buy… approach the owner, offer a hand to hand price that suits. What’s the worst that could happen? This sort of game encourages thinking outside the square.
Anyway I must sleep, I see you’re replying @Fallon, I will get back to you tomorrow.
I’m not meaning to dismiss it but yes, I do see your point. I think people who creatively marketed shops and such will continue to be creative and/or innovate. You might take some aspects of that away with an AH system, but you open the economy up for people who hate this segment of the game, enabling more people to enter the market even if they aren’t competitive. I still think that there would be a positive correlation between the reward and amount of time spent working.
I’m just trying to objectively state a point and talk through yours a bit, I start with a preface since sometimes logical discussions can come off as an attack or negative especially when I don’t have constructive things to add. When I say “you” I mean like… as it pertains to shopkeepers as a group. I’m not blaming you for not buying noob items haha.