Automations, Airships and Blueprints

@Zouls: Be honest … do you like to play a game where everyone sit’s in his own beacons and cleaning land for his building (maybe you’re better off with minecraft than) ? I realy don’t want too play such a game. i want to play a game where the objective is to play with others and have fun instead of doing monotonous work all the time.

The next point you are meantion:

why since the dawn of time mankind try to automate everything ?! ofc you have a lost in worth but think about the huge amount of materials you need for building a pyramide or a city (like the capital city project). where shall these materials come from ? i’m quite sure we won’t have “infinite mode” for ever :frowning: and i’m sure we won’t have slavery either :+1:

1) @KuroKuma made a good answer to this, i want to appand an other point. did you ever heard of David Ricardo and the “comparative advantage” (hope the translation matches, in german it’s called “komperativer kostenvorteil”). It’s totaly useless let the players do monotonous stuff because they could do more valuable stuff like building (be creative) and fighting (which brings action too the game) while the “easy” work is done by machinery. (this argument may need a bit fantasy to understand, but i’m not able to explain it satisfactorily in english)

2) i made an answer above … ofc materials will drop in worth, but we will need a lot of them so i think this is not a big point! (also @KuroKuma indicate the devs can find a way to balance it). i realy hope that it will be an advantage in the long run. that’s one of the main reasons for automation - you invest a lot in the begining too get a reward in the end :wink:

3) i think it will be a positiv thing for the game. currently there are not a lot of player (i hope this will change - but i’m not sure about it). the worlds are realy big and there is not a clear answer about world expansion yet (will they be inifte as far as someone travels or will they be a torous (bound at their edges like a globe)). So it’s realy unlikely too see someone else on the world as long as you don’t search for someone. if the objective is to do my own stuff all the time because i want to build something, i never meet someone else because they are most likely doing their own stuff too. but if you allow automation (like we did it in the real world since the beginning of industrial time) ppl can come together and do other stuff that is more communal and more valuable.

4) you don’t sit around in a bar … you go and discover the world, fight and come together with others. it’s not lazy, it’s an other objective. let me ask you a counter-question: how boring shall cleaning / building be ?

we saw a lot of arguments against nearly everthing from you, maybe you can make a productive counter example which would be a better way for automation ?

ps: no insult to you ofc, i just disagree with all your arguments :smile:

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On the other hand I actually feel that slow gathering increase the teamwork overall, if you can automate gathering you don’t need friends to do that. I for one always play together with people in minecraft so we can help each other to complete the boring tasks.

If rescource gathering is that boring why not just make it more fun? Instead of making new machines let us make mining and woodcutting fun.

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None. i dont like the idea of not working for what you have. my problem is that you want to obliterate a gameplay element for being ‘‘boring’’. and indeed it might be, but its part of gameplay. however as i mentioned, i am a firm believer in working to achieve something, also in terms of combat, kill 100 enemies to level up your sword skills, not just be like ‘‘we dont want to level, because its boring’’

Curious, if i said building was boring, would that be a proper argument for having full scale houses you can build with just one click?

EDIT: @KuroKuma help me here, with all due respect i cant help but see heuraz’s arguments as nonsensical, not that he is ofc, just my horribly innate bias towards things which seems to not make sense to me. you on the other hand know me well enough to explain what he saying to me, wanna give a hand?

EDIT2: what @Thorbjorn42gbf said basically. Nice one mate.

EDIT3: @Heurazio im not a builder, i dont build stuff, and i dont think that should be the main focus on the game, you talk about building huge cities, towns, mountain villages, pyramids, whatever. building should take time, if you want something as grand as a city it should take 50 people a few weeks to make, a small town should be possible to build with 20 people in around 2 days, if they all work together. i think im starting to put it together, you want to do all of this alone and use the pretense of then i can go be with others i think Thor summed it up brilliantly, if it so boring and takes so much time, it encourages you to work with other people to make it less tedious. win win right?

I’m arguing for a middle ground here. I think working for what you have makes sense. But I also firmly believe in working intelligently to maximize production. After all, why use a wooden hammer when you can use a stone hammer? I believe there are already plans to introduce even more efficient tools that should make tedious/repetitive activities easier, @Heurazio.

Also, it’s a sandbox game. If I want to be a pyromaniac burning down trees everywhere, that should be allowed to happen ;).

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Hm, I think the main point is that you seem to assume automation let’s you get things for free. No time and no materials invested.

But what @Heurazio and I suggest is the exact opposite. You work even harder up front to get more out of it.
Do you think it doesn’t take time to come up with the mechanism that clears a tunnel? The more complex the task gets the more time it takes to invent something that can do said task.

This is also the reason most likely there won’t be any automation for building. Because building is so complex you just can not build something that builds an entire city for you.

Then additionally to the time it takes to invent the automation machine, the machine also takes materials. This also scales with the complexity of the task the machine has to solve.

And last but not least the machine needs time to do the task you want it to do.
So all in all you pay much more upfront, be it time or materials, to get a gain in the long run.

And if that isn’t enough for you to balance it, add additional operating costs like fuel or parts that can break so you have to maintain the machine.

I hope that made it understandable for your logic mind^^ I know it’s sometimes hard to unsee what you once believed to see in someones posts.

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that sounds intereseting, what’s your idea ? how can this be more fun ?

if i work 60 hours a week as a sinior software developer and i earn 150k a year and i buy a ferari / porsche (what ever) don’t i earned it because i don’t build it with my own hand ? that’s how this argument sounds too me.

@Zouls: your arguments sound nonsensical to me too :slight_smile: let us concur we don’t concur :smiley:

your point with “1 click houses” : i think blue prints would be a good addition to the toolset. why build it all over again if you have it done once ? as long as you have the materials …

i’m a builder and i’m a fighter, the problem is, i have only 24h a day. let me show you two screenshoots of my buildings.

my first home-world civini near the capitol …

my new building somewhere on selta … not finished yet … not even close

i did the most of it alone … how boring do you think was the clenaup ? sometimes i had help from @Saint_X but it’s boring for everyone who has to do with it so it’s a “lose-lose” situation for me / us.

@Clexarews: sounds like a solid compromise to me

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Thank you, much appreciated.

anybody have a clue on how hard it would be to implement machinery like that? i dont know, but it sounds like some miracle machines you can do just about everything with.

I don’t know how hard it would be to implement it but it won’t be one machine. Most likely you’ll have several basic parts/blocks you can combine as you wish to achieve the result you like.

But since it is a after 1.0 feature it might be a bit more complicated than what is planned up until then.

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@KuroKuma thanks :slight_smile: thats 100% my point

How am I supposed to read the last 30 posts in 10 minutes? I’m pretty sure this has strayed off topic anyhow.

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You could check out Fortresscraft evolved for example. It is a voxel game that is entirely built around the automation of harvesting/processing resources (but this doesn´t mean that the game plays itself :wink:). This mechanics are of course not balanced for an MMO.
Ideally the fuel consumption should be really high to force manufactures to optimize their process as much as possible (like in the real world) and encourage trading between fighters and manufactures
Fuel(Titan cores/Oort shards)<->Ammunition,food,etc

This could (theoretically) create an entire new caste of players: Manufactorers that, unlike crafters, don´t focus on making the best equipment but on making cheap consumables with the highest possible fuel-efficiency and buying fuel(titans cores/ Oort shards) for the cheapest rate. And doesn´t this sound absolute incredible? :grinning:
It´s also the only way how I see selling/buying blueprints put in any use.

I think Blueprints will pretty much do just that.

:smile:

@Havok40k , I think this is kinda on-topic since we are using Oort shards as potenial fuel for automated structures.

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Nah, it was more like an over the top example to say like ‘‘if i click this the entire thing is placed down instantly’’ the original version of blueprints was that someone could put blueprint blocks, hopefully blueprint doesnt put down the blocks instantly but rather shows where the blocks have to be placed :smiley:

+1 :heart_eyes:

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Well, I meant more like good looking stuff you couldn’t just put down in 3 minutes with dirt xD

Whew! Finally found a few moments to sludge through that wall of text and decided

  1. this is an awesome line of discussion to dig deeper into that would be helped by
  2. moving this to a new thread dedicated to automations such as tunnelers, airships, defences, etc and blueprints for them. Manufacturing sounds like a radical game changing idea!
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Thanks, hope we will find something that is possible :smiley:

Such as tanks? XD

Hups … that was a typo … “thanks” :smiley:

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Messing around with my mod magics, it does not seem that “change op” is in my spell book. Sorry, I am not as powerful as the devs.

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Thanks for your attempt :slight_smile: So i summon the great demon of the forum @james :smiley: joking

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