By penalty i simply mean a 1 : 15 ratio instead of 1 : 10, you say winner and loser, which is the point. the luck should be the main factor, since after all it would be a luck based system if you get less than normal, no wonder, its random, its the point of randomness. however for thing such as 1k, if you can convert all with a 1:1 ratio as the chance you would instead have 173 uncommon and 6 common, which could be turned into 17 rare which would leave 26 rare, which would turn into 2 more epics. smae thing with 3 and 4, number 4 with 13 rare could turn it into 1 epic with 3 rare to spare, thats the thing, if the argument is that you only want epics, then you have to remember the other things which you can turn into epics. which i assume is what we are talking about, only caring about epics.
now try with a million, or a billion, or maybe a trillion. then you would get closer results, chance implies that its not always close oo the stats unless you run an insane amount of tests, and yes, some will be luckier than others, which is the point, however dedication would still reduce the effect of poor luck. if you have 1 guy get epics two times in a row but common the other 998 times, and a guy getting no epics but getting 75 rares and 250 uncommon. who is the lucky one and who is the unlucky one?
huge respect for running numbers though. it does help putting it into perspective
PS: apologies if i came off as rude, i can completely understand why some would be against luck in games as some feel that its just a cheap way to prolong gametime.
Luck is the main factor even if the ratio is 1:10. ofc you can convert the other stuff to epics too. but the one poor guy with the hughe amount of commons (which are in fact only ~150 more than the the other guy) should not be punished with extra costs (nr.3 will made even more epics from his drops … but that’s ok in my opinion, that’s luck).
100k would take 83h for collecting if every pick takes 3s. i think the set is high enough … don’t you ? the outcome is always something like a bell curve (some are winners, others not).
can’t chance the system of luck … but could make it “not that hard” for the unlucky ones
Ignoring the finer details of the latest 30 something posts regarding drop rates and luck (I did read the first dozen posts thoroughly, after that it seems much of the same but in fine detail and highly debatable), I can’t help but feel like this approach, while a common staple in many mmo’s to some degree or another, is simply too grindy and not “sandboxy” enough. B< is a game centered on discovery, and I feel the crafting and recipies should reflect that to a greater degree.
As I understand the system proposed by @zouls, crafting the highest quality items would encourage two likely behaviors.
A) mine a ■■■■ load of ore yourself just to get enough rare materials for a high quality item.
B) dump a small fortune trading for rare materials.
Neither of these activities suit the role that I imagine zouls hopes to fill as well as they could. You want to be a legendary crafter, are you going to spend hours of mining just to craft one legendary item? At what point do you cease to be a full time crafter and instead become a miner that crafts on the side? If you go the trade route, how can your prices be competitive against miners if you have to pay a premium for rare materials?
There is the thing though. you cant really use that as an argument cause it goes both ways
thats just… why is it ‘‘unfair’’ that a person gets 20 less epics to start with but fair when he has 30 less after conversion? what is the logic in that? there cannot be such a thing as ‘‘fair’’, if you make the requirements lower then also the guy who get more, will get even more, but why is that more fair than the one guy just getting a little less? that is my problem with your logic.
Man… you know i despise this word like the plague, it is used too often by fools who doesnt want to do anything, but i do see what you are getting at and i think you might have skipped on thing
the epics would have to be rare, it shouldnt be a case where common, uncommon or rare is useless which it seems to be treated as if you get epics or nothing. it should not be ‘‘i have an epic sword you have a rare, you are now useless compared to me’’ but more like ‘‘after 100 hours i have finally collected the materials for this epic sword which very few people have achieved to create’’
there is a balance, however there is also the other side, you can easily make epics too easy to find, meaning they will have little to no value. is that better? that you just find epics every 50 ore or so? doesnt that kinda ruin the point of a high quality rare material, the fact that it isnt rare at all?
but yeah, 1000 is a bit overkill. it was just to make sure there were tiers of rarity. what else would it be to keep its value? 10, 25, 50? 5, 25, 75? that just seems too easy to get higher quality stuff then.
that does seem more fair. it depends on how much ore in a vein though, atm i am pretty sure we have iron mushrooms which is like 20 - 30 iron split with very little distance between them, so the numbers would have to be based on how often you find those things anyways.
so lets do this, lets try with ‘‘dedicated’’ time to more realistic standards. i would say you would roughly collect 1 ore per minute,maybe 2 of dedicated mining if you are in an area with veins.
so you should get an uncommon around every 10 min, a rare around every hour and an epic around 5 hours of dedicated mining, in average ofc. (this is including time it would take to move from vein to vein and to find them)
Depends… on how many you need, and for what… assuming you need 2 or 3, do you think 15 hours of work is unfair for an epic weapon? especially if you can refine the other ores to get more epics, meaning it might only take 10?
i meant if you need 3 for an ingont and 5 for the epic (15 x 5h = 75h) … i think we are hardened too much on the word “epic”. an epic iron sword will be much worse then a common “adamintium” sword or something that is like 5 tiers higher (expect when, as i mentions priviously, every epic has its unique stats [like life-steal])
2 Things, first it’s really interesting that you both called me to negotiate between you xD I really feel honored^^
second, it’s great to see that you could resolve the whole issue without my help^^ Shows that we have a good community.
Quite sure i’m here as long as you are (but i don’t felt the need to talk a lot the last months … but now things are going forward, so i think it’s time to break the silence) but that’s nothing we should argue about
Nonsense, people should argue about everything, start up their brains with a train of thought, i have found the best suggestions to be those which are made when people are in a heated argument.
I have too agree with you, although I would not use “grindy”.
In my opinion it is just unintuitive and impractical. As the game is now your inventory is already overfilled with all the different colours of blocks/seeds etc. if the devs would now add different ore rarities to all the different ores we are (probably) going to get mining and crafting would become nothing but a mess.
If the devs would just add a small chance to drop a higher tiered ore it would almost have the same effect but would just need the devs to slightly change some loot tables.
I think this should not be a great deal. I don’t expect that they create skins for every item, but stat’s are only numerical values that can be read from a database in no time.
i also think, beacuse B< is a sandbox, it would be cool if we have lots of oportunities with different marerials and not only 5 types and 10 weapons. i think there should be a wide varity of materials and items to craft to catch the sandbox (creating, expoloring) spirit.
the “mess” you mentioned will hopefully be pased with the next update (chests).
but that’s nothing we should argue about