Yo,
What are the base stats of these hammers? I haven’t seen many of them around, are they just too expensive to use or is there some other factor stopping people for using them?
How much would a fully forged high tier hammer cost at current prices (blink, rift and umbris)?
For me the lack of a constant stream of the material in quesation makes them a useless resource other then for deco or crafting.
And i think you should be able to check the stats in the Knowledge tab. I gonna check later.
The base stats are in the knowledge base. Though I’m not sure if you need to be able to craft them to see that.
Forged gems outperform them in most areas as the progression is crossed up the same as the lower tiers of tools.
There’s some more discussion on the matter here:
I tought they just consume lots of energy. so as hammer it pretty usless
I am still travelling home from vacation but I had a quick glance on the other post, what is the downside of Blink hammers? No crit and low flexibility (whatever that means)?
The investment in mats is way to high for little gain over a gem tool. If memory serves me correctly the inhibiting factors are the low flexibility and the rarity of the base lucent material. Why would I need a lucent hammer that is a little stronger than a rank 330 gem hammer if I can use those beauties as decoration for my build^^
edit: on the price point i ve seen them around for about 20k to 25k for forged lucent tools.
The flexibility is a forging attribute. Lucent tools get you 42 I think. For comparison a diamond has 200.
Economically this means a difference in forging cost of (typically) a lot more than 5x the cost.
Just to throw out a rough description, single crafting a lucent tool has an economic value somewhere in the neighborhood of 8k coins right now. It’s up in the neighborhood of a well-forged diamond tool.
Then when you take it to the forge, you can expect to spend 15 - 30k (ahh that forging RNG) achieving the same type of boons you would have on your <10k forged diamond tool.
There’s a luck factor in the forging but in the end you could probably expect to buy 2 - 4 max forged diamond tools and all the brews and pies you would need for them in order to have someone produce a single max forged lucent tool for you.
Of course you can adjust that “value” for yourself by doing some or all of the work but in the end, whether you’re paying or doing it, the materials/work involved remain pretty much the same. I don’t have a list at hand or anything but I think even with a rift heavy hammer you’re still going to need some buffs to be 1-hitting at t7 if you put AoE on it.
Me too, though these are often quirky and have no maxed stats on them. I need to replace my grapples soon and this is one area where the lucent items DO have clear advantages.
I’d be quite pleased to see a pair of maxed range/dura/projectile speed rift grapples right now for at or below 100k.
I would love to try out some, maybe buy a few max durability, high damage single target blink hammers for building then. Would be pretty sweet to have 5800 durability on a hammer 
Maybe some Umbris hammers too. Anyone know of any forgers that could do such? 
But I get the problem. Guess they didn’t really want an easily attainable huge upgrade from diamond tools. At least it’s better like this for the economy
You can 1 hit t7 with aoe rift hammers with no buffs. I haven’t forged those hammers myself so I’m not sure which dmg lvl it needs. But the ones that 1 hit run about 30-40k in shops. Alutech used to have some for sale. As I haven’t played in a while I’m not sure if they still have any for sale.
In my experiences it dosen’t ever seem economically viable to forge these hammers because of the massive cost.
@Nightstar’s assumption is indeed correct, however if you don’t mind quirks using level 2 quirk boon gives 1000 points, times 0.42 = 420 boon points per use. By comparison, level 1 quirk boon on a normal tool uses 400, times 2 = 800 boon points per use. While this is still less efficient, theoretically the cost of forging using this method is only 2-3 times as much.
Ive personally hired MrNix to forge me blink slingbows, with the assumption that forging just 1 boon (damage 10) is “roughly” as expensive as forging a maxed out diamond slingbow based on my above analysis. I think this is the only situation where its somewhat viable to forge these tools
(and even then, a damage 10 blink bow is still much less dps than a maxed out multishot slingbow, but I still prefer these because “why not”)
Yeah I wasn’t 100% certain on that. I would guess it requires a level 10 devastating damage to overcome the damage loss on a 3x3.
This sounds reasonable my only experience sitting in with forging this type of item was with grapples and they require 10/10/10 where forging a ‘perfect’ AoE hammer is only 4/10/10.
This (the compound cost) is only one part of the problem. The other part of the problem is extending the forging session long enough to hit your desired boon levels at less than 1/4 the boon points (vs a diamond tool) per compound.
Pushing a forging session over 500 rounds carries a considerable expense no matter the outcome. I’ve sat through three of these sessions and while I think one of them was luckily done in something like 490 rounds, one of them also went over 580. With quirks.
This (limiting boons) carries a cost as well, which may end up being more or less than just allowing some random boons depending on how you go about it. Either should definitely be cheaper than pushing for max on three target boons though.
Also @MrNiX is a forging wizard where I’m something of a novice.
This might be the rare case where boon removal solvent 2 has a place over 1. I’m not sure if I’d even bother with trait reduction since the deck is so limited after you load for stacking pastes.
Discarding those hard earned boon points with boon removal solvent 1 would hurt. But letting them slide off into random boons would add a random amount of expense to reaching level 10 with your target boon.
Yeah I have a few of these “why not” items myself lol. Seeing the damage numbers posted on some of those bows with the heavy projectiles recently was interesting though 
The maxed out bows I bought from Morgan some months ago are still decorating my cabinet for the most part. I paid a little extra to get some of the first at auction and save them for t7 hunting only which doesn’t happen often.
@MrNiX will forge to order but he often has a backlog. There may be some pre-forged items in the TNT Superstore.
@Tonezone at the golden fist usually has a bunch of pre-forged lucent stuff in stock though most of them won’t be “perfected” they’ll be reasonably priced.
@illuminawtyness had quite a few lucent items at reasonable prices last time I was in his shop too. That was before we got umbris not sure what’s out there now.
I haven’t been to AluTech for a long time either. I have no idea what they have at the moment.
I think it’s actually 7 or 8. 10 would probably one hit ore
Can you share whats the method of extending the session based on roughly ?
You need to get vigor through catalyst, you might want vigor and defect debufs stacking
And you need to get back stability, for that I haven’t found a viable way…
Are you sacrificing some gums and rely on luck ?
In general I agree its does not pay off, but I would like to learn 
I might go dig for numbers. I thought even a diamond required 8. (edit to recover damage lost to AoE not to 1-hit T7)
I’ve personally still only forged less than 200 items I think, and many weren’t hammers. As noted that pretty much leaves me in the noob category for actually forging lol.
EDIT: also sorry prior post was intended at the thread but quoting you set you as “reply to”.
Sure people i know refer to it as “paste stacking” but it originated with crete and he called it “maxx forging”. I’ll dig up a video link in a sec.
Using a gum with stabilisation paste 2 buff on gives you +50 stability if it’s not clear after watching the video, so you can burn some extra gums and push that stability up as long as you want to keep spending pastes. I’ll edit the link on after a forum search.
EDIT: Crete’s Max Forging technique:
I guess “Maxx Forge” was just the name of his shop lol.
Here you can see pics of a forge at round 583, and the first rank 480 item ever posted 
And also some price analysis showing that this would have cost roughly 28k in forging mats at the time.
10 damage boon with +all on rift would 1 hit t6 ores but not t7 ones.
My opinion on lucent tools is they not worth the forge cost for the minimal return you get than gems tools.
You can forge 1-2 max lucent tool at a time vs 6 for diamond tool in a lesser cost in forging mats while both can one hit t7. Diamond hammer is better in energy consumption and speed.
forget what I said in this comment lol sleepy
Yep, I personally think lucent tools need a +50% buff (not necessarily 1.5x every stat, but they need to have their principle attributes buffed)
Crete’s max forging videos are an EXCELLENT place to start. But I think a lot comes down to expectation. When I decide to forge a difficult item, I usually approach it with 3 different possible forging methods and the one thing that’s almost always at the top of my list is repeatability. In the end I am left with a unique approach to create that particular item and I’m confident that I can do it. BUT, even then, rng is such that part of the method consists of break points. I can assess the item and determine which branch of the forge process to take next. This is more complex than most people want I think.
The items I forge are usually hard to replace, and that’s the challenge for me. If your looking for something random, periodically check in with me as I often have prototype forges that I really don’t care about but are probably considered quite good. I’m also TERRIBLE at pricing, and much prefer favor trading or if your lucky and one of our shopkeepers hasn’t advised me… you could really get a good deal 
Otherwise, please feel free to ask me questions. I don’t “give” away anything intellectual, but I love the process of helping people figure things out. If you want to put in a little effort, you will likely discover a lot.
