Bombhammers for everyone!


#1

This is a brainstorming thread on how to transition mining away from AoE hammers, in a way that doesn’t greatly disrupt miners but also gives devs more control over balance.

tl;dr:

  1. Introduce a balanced way to AoE mine for all the goodies
  2. Retire AoE boon on tools
  3. Create a new way to dig small tunnels

Quick terminology detour. I’m going to talk about the set of ore, alloy, gem, coal, and tech blocks as seams. When you go mining there’s blocks (rock, gravel, sand) and seams (ore, gems, etc).

Act 1: Introducing Bombhammers

OKAY. At this suggestion’s heart is a new way to interact with the world. It would break 3x3 blocks without producing any drops, and it would do zero damage to seams. You’re getting the blocks out of the way so you can find the seams. Then, you can collect the seams with a hammer.

What should the tool be exactly? It should be a maryx-flipping bombhammer. It’s exactly what it sounds like. You swing a hammer and then the rocks explode.

How do you get one? Make hammers augmentable and then introduce exactly 1 augment for them called bombhammer. The augment system has a lot of levers for devs to balance with. It has a fixed number of charges acting as durability. It can be crafted in multiple strengths. It can augment stats the same way forge traits can. Imagine something like this:

Bombhammer Augment 3
Tear the planet down to its seams. Damages a 3x3 area turning every block to smolder except the seams.
800 Charges
-20% damage
-20% action speed
+100 energy drain

See? You can tune all of those levers and more to find the perfect sweet spot for AoE balance. I made mine a little nerfy with a generous amount of charges. Plenty of room to brainstorm other avenues.

Downstream effects of bombhammers:

  1. Miners don’t have to juggle backpackfuls of rock when they really want to stuff their bags with drops from seams.

  2. No excessive rock means rock->stone crafting can return to 2xp.

  3. No more drops littering the ground and lagging the server. This is what made exo planets so laggy, so I’m claiming +40 max players on exo planets in the name of team bombhammer.

  4. Everyone can bombhammer. The super duper best ability in the game is no longer locked behind a complicated forge wall or steep economic wall. New players can make and use Bombhammer Augment 1. They can aspire to what the pros use, Bombhammer Augment 3 slotted into specially forged hammers.

Act 2: Retiring AoE

Now that bombhammers are the most ergonomic way to search for seams, we can retire AoE tools. Simply remove the AoE boon from the gum but leave the effect in the game. Everyone’s existing hammers still work, so there’s time to transition to the new technique or stockpile for the long night. And there’s not any way to make more, so they will eventually phase out of the game or become historic artifacts.

Don’t get too sad, maybe we can celebrate Citizen History Week someday in the future with a limited time Gum that lets you roll the old school AoE boon.

Act 3: The Return of Tunneling

Without the AoE boon we lose the ability to tunnel, which is a bummer. There’s plenty of reasons players want to move quickly underground. Since I’ve already talked you into one hammer augment, another one’s not gonna be too hard, right?

Tunneling Augment 3
You’ll get there much faster if you swing for two. Also hits the block below the one you’re aiming at.
800 charges
Affect Adjacent: Below
-20% attack speed

As you can see it’s kind of like a mini AoE. There’s no more damage debuff since we don’t need it to balance out 9x power. I made it a little slower cuz I’m mean. You can also still kinda use it for gathering seeds, trunks, mould, etc.

That’s it! BOMBHAMMERS. Feel free to modify the idea to your liking and reply with your improvements!

Q&A

Q: What if I squirrel away an AoE hammer and then one day augment it into a bombhammer?
A: You’re a psychopath and you need to move to Houchus I with the rest of the psychopaths.

Q: Is there a bombshovel and a bombaxe?
A: I thought so at first. But if you think about it, you don’t want one. There’s no such thing as a wood seam or a dirt seam. So you’d just destroy the blocks and never get any drops. You probably want a shovel or axe with a Tunneler’s Augment so you can do a loose approximation of the old AoE farming.

Q: Do I need to carry two hammers, one to bombhammer and the other to break seams?
A: Yeah, man. But I got you. Augmented and non-augmented tools already stack in your backpack. :raised_hands: And just wait until you see the market for powerful, magnet, glowing off-hand forged hammers. :point_right::nose:

Q: What’s the recipe for Bombhammer Augments?
A: Not sure. I like a heavy recipe requiring bombs as an ingredient. Any Metal Bombs for Augment 1, Any Alloy Bombs for Augment 2, and Any Gem Bombs for Augment 3. Remember I’m in favor of a high number of charges, so it’s kinda like converting the bomb’s durability into number of charges.

Q: Wait, can I attack with this thing?
A: No, but you almost can… because if hammer augments are a thing, there’s no reason Wonderstruck can’t make additional augments meant for melee combat in the future. Got any ideas?

Q: Why make things augments and not forge effects?
A: It just makes more sense to me to put special effects on augments, and stat mods in the forge. Not only does it make the verbs of the game accessible to a wider audience, it provides way more balance control. I kinda hope we can repeat this process and slowly move more verbs over to augments. Probably starting with bomb boons.

Q: Speaking of bombs, why not just do this to bombs instead of making hammer augments?
A: That feels like opening pandora’s box. Bombs are kind of aimless right now. Are they for hunting? Digging? Healing? Farming? (The answer is weirdly “all of the above”.) You can’t balance them because the utility roles are best with wide radius and the damage roles are broken with wide radius. And like… it’s dangerously close to asking for bomb mining to return. It’s going to summon banshees. :speak_no_evil:


#2

I’m not completely against your suggestions, but I don’t know that I am on board with removing the AoE buff from forging. Half of what I use forging for is to make AoE tools, so if we get rid of them I’ll just simply use the system less (to be clear, I LIKE the current forging system which I know makes me a weirdo lol).

I’m pretty sure the Devs said they are open to the idea of tool augments, and I feel the ones you suggested would be fair to include in such a patch. Other Augments that I’d like to see would be: grant elemental damage alignment (primarily for fist weapons), +50% to creatures but -50% to blocks, Bleed/debuff applying tools (or simply add the forged abilities for such to tools), +25% range but 25% slower swing speed (aka “claymore” augment), and +25% faster swing speed a 25% reduction to energy consumption but -25% damage (basically like hollowing out the tool or simply making it lighter somehow).


#3

and combined with

Do not agree with this, I can support the idea of giving players more options to mine, But I do not like the idea of removing or replacing existing things for something else, that effectively prevents a way of doing something.

Your proposal doesn’t seem to support the people who might want to purposefully keep rock drops and not want to have them poof into thin air because the AoE solution that you propose, which will become the only AoE solution, destroys them. Mining rock for building now becomes unnecessary annoying. Maybe even rage-quit inducing for some people as you are removing the standard.




So because of that, I feel your proposal right out of the gates, fails to meet your own requirement of

As you will be greatly disrupting the people who mine for rock. Due to the fact your solution contains no 3x3 AoE with rock drops.




Bomb mining should have never of been just flat out removed, just re-balanced with out destroying it 100%, And I think that was the start of the trend of some players starting to become disgruntled over the game,


#4

There isn’t anything in here I think would make the game more fun. Increasing grind for people who don’t treat this game like a second job is going to eventually leave just a few of us playing. It was well thought out though.


#5

This is a bad suggestion. In my opinion ofc

Solution. Bring back old gem aoe effects.


#6

It’s truly frustrating to see so few people acknowledge or even recognise how bad for the game the state of AoE hammer mining is, so I’m glad that someone else is pointing it out and is offering suggestions. I do like that they’ve reduced the flexibility of the new materials to curb this with the next set of tools, but it feels like too little, too late.

I don’t have anything much to add. As has been mentioned, there are still occasions when the intent IS to mass-mine rocks, and I think that a 2x2 capping tunnelling augment would be better balanced for this need

Otherwise, the suggestion seems sound. I just don’t have the will to discuss this with people who will say it’s bad, adding whatever excuse reason they can think of, when the truth of the matter is that it all boils down to ‘It doesn’t directly benefit me’ or ‘It does directly negatively impact on me’, and screw the long term benefits.

Have you considered that this is, in fact, a problem? People are very focused on forging AoE because it is just so much better than anything else.


#7

For me it boils down to what is likely to have the best impact on player count. I don’t give a damn if a nerf hurts the way I do things. Been there, Done that, many times over, I have played enough other games to know how to adapt and work around nerfs should they effect something I do.

I feel the player count for boundless is not healthy, and therefore that is my prime motivation to be be against anything that might further suppress the player count. I want the game to have more players. Not less.

Between lack of content and the nerfs is the reason, the only guild I have joined (Forgemasters) Died off about 3 months ago or so.

If the player count was much higher, then my stance about this situation would be different. Most likely neutral.

TL:DR
The bottom line from me is, The cat is out of the bag, and trying to put the cat back into the bag, might cause too many players to quit.


#8

I will have to agree with some of the other sentiments expressed. I need rock to build so eliminating a way for a lot of rock to be gathered directly affects my gameplay in a negative way. Without a large amount of rock, I cannot make the refined, decorative and brick items I need. All this does is make getting what I need to build more of a grind or you force me to mine for seems (which I hate doing) in order to sell to purchase what will become more expensive materials. Great for the economy until the builders find another game.

However, I do agree that the 3x3 AOE buff is probably adding too many resources to the game. I have heard James say there is an over supply of materials. I do think the coin machine will address some of this, but not all of it. I think the prices will be so low that for most material, players will not use the coin machine so the over supply will continue. Of course this could be addressed by changing the price, but I am getting too far off topic. I think the developers are going to have to allow some form of AOE that allows the collection of all materials. I would prefer the old EA AOE where the tool automatically had the AOE versus it being forged and would love to see an augment that would allow the non-forgers to still have AOE tools.

My suggestion would be the ability to add a buff to a tool or an augment that would essentially destroy the rock (for no xp) and only drop the seams. If you want to go gem mining then use this tool and you collect only gems and other resources like coal, but no rock. Not sure if from a practical standpoint players would want this but it might address the issue with rock. This makes the not dropping rock an option and maybe having the option would be better.


#9

I don’t like this at all. Zero. Nada. I am in the camp that LOVES the ability to mass gather stone. I like to make deco and marble and brick and a lot of other things rock gets used for. Taking away my ability to AoE them would be just bad.


#10

I’m not on-board with removing AOE WHAT SO EVER. It’s my fav part of the game. Personally getting tired of everything getting stripped away. Players personally have a choice not to use them if they don’t want too. Theres lots of gems out there now and regeneration is great. I’m ok with the current game. If you want to add something I love it!! But to take away something… NO!

I like forging and using my hammers period.


#11

I am in full support of hammer augments…but not the removal of AOE.

I use AOE tools to gather stone for my builds. I would not like to slow that down.

However, if AOE hammer augments like this were just added straight to the game, I would be in full support! It would give people more options!


#12

It’s usually 100% of the time an extremely terrible idea to remove something from a video game that a large majority of people are enjoying from the game. This is one of them.

Wish the devs would understand this too.


#13

I think it would be nice to have a tool that would remove rocks when you are mining for gems or coal – AND also have one that could be used when you are mining for rock to make stone or bricks so that those who are builders can get the rocks they need. They can mine with the rock hammer to get the specific ones they want and mine with the seam hammer for when they need only gems or coal.
For those who mine only for coal or gems, they would want the seam hammer and not have to worry about the rocks, flint and other items getting in the way.

Maybe even a third type that would let us mine for all, for those who are wanting to get some rocks, some coal, some gems, need the fragments of sulphur, olivine and such, want opals, rock salt and other items we get when we mine.

When I go out gathering I try to take the tools that I need for that, if needing a axe, I just have my iron hammers with me but also a iron axe and also my “special” axes to let me get wood quick, same with shovels, I don’t carry the gathering shovels when I am out getting sap and berries, but I do carry them when I am out collecting the mushrooms, shimmering orbs, boulders and other for my cooking/crafting or selling.

In theory it sounds good, and I would love to see some different tools for different tasks and they have augments on them to make it easier and cheaper instead of wishing I could afford the expensive tools and not be able to do so. Augments for these tools would sell for those who can’t afford the AOE tools.


#14

What if the coin machine were portable?
Strap it on your back while AOE mining and those pesky, server-crippling rock masses get converted to coin, however small the amount is, without them ever hitting the ground.
Give the machine a standard deck and a timer so you can snag something before it gets converted but doesn’t overflow.
Maybe give it an on/off switch and some toggle switches so you can tell it which things get vacuumed up automatically and which divert to your regular bags.


#15

I’d just like to say that I worked for months to be able to make aoe tools. If they were removed from the game, I don’t know if I could continue. AOE tools and the grapple are my favourite things in this game


#16

I applaud this kind of outside the box suggestion. I find it well laid out and a good discussion starter. I replied above but wanted to let you know that while it might not be the direction the dev’s or many players want to go, I liked how you presented it and appreciated it. In particular, I’d like to see this happen:


#17

Nope, I am not a combat focused character, I explore, gather surface resources, and mine. The other half I tend to make a handful of forged thing for my store or forge some grapples to make movement on a planet easier.

Every system can have “long term benefits” from someone’s perspective. All people can do is add to or detract from an idea based on their point of view. Half of your point of view is what you want out of something, the other half is a mix of beliefs, convenience for your life, and some other minor things.

Bottom line, we need to not remove things at this point. We are just getting to a good point of parity and options, more options is better than one option which is why I do like the augment suggestions, but in addition to not in replacement of the current one.


#18

I agree, exceptional presentation for a suggestion!

I totally understand where OP is coming from and the problems they are trying to address. I do agree that something needs to come along to help combat that. However, what I can’t agree with is flat out removing AoE gathering of blocks.

I’m a builder and often times I toss ore or other reasources just for another smart stack of blocks, especially when I’m after a particular color. I have high hopes that the coin machine concept will add more value to things some people typically dropped on the ground and help remove some of the clutter from the surface load.


#19

Augments for tools have been asked for since At least September/October. Maybe further if you really dig through the search feature. A lot of the things you suggested have been mentioned in some form before, but either overlooked or ignored. It’d be nice if augments were added to gear but then you pretty much make the forge useless as a result of that if you can only have one or the other which is what it seemed like some people pushed for when the topics came up in the past.


#20

Did I miss the memo or something? Is something broke with aoe mining?