Compact Oortshards


#62

Man I really hate these walls of text. I just end up repeating myself over and over. I’m not sure if there’s a better way for us to communicate @Xaldafax that doesn’t require you to do this?

This is empirically false. Here are two things you’ve said that lean that way:

this is interesting:

if you’re supporting reducing the effort, then why take baseless off-topic stabs at portal networks?

Many? I think coin was the only one you listed. What other benefits do you perceive us getting? There’s a bunch of ways in this game to get coin, and I think all of them require significant effort for significant coin.

Bottom line, doing tasks that you see as unrelated increases popularity. This work causes coin income. Getting coin is playing the game. I get that some people make their own rules they live in that are more restrictive than the game (for example I like to play stealth games and never be detected, if I get detected and still win, I still reload my save), but that doesn’t mean other use cases should be nerfed.

I lead hunts so the community can take our footfall money and fuel our network. We have other members that lead hunts, and many members that come on the hunts. if 5 people go on a 1.5 hour hunt, then 7.5 man hours were spent hunting. This is not a small amount of effort. We have members leading and hunting every weekday, sometimes twice. This adds up to a heck of a lot of man hours every week. Lots of effort to keep the network running.

This is also false. Anything that gets more coin, and more popularity is related to the network.

Maintaining a good community relationship gets us more coin in the portal network. This is part of the game.

Less work means more time doing other things that improve coin income. Again, this is part of the game whether you like it or not.

I’m a very critical guy I know and sometimes I sound really hostile. I’ve done my best to read this post multiple times before hitting submit. Please understand that I don’t mean to be hostile, but I want to ensure that the devs see our opinion as well as yours.


#63

I think one thing to consider is that all compact oort would do is extend the time between refueling the portals. As long as the ratio of the oort shards it takes to make compact oort is the same as the ratio of the time an oort shard lasts to how long compact oort lasts, then compact oort does nothing to decrease the effort to run a portal network other than the minimal amount of time it takes to refuel, which arguably could be offset by the additional time to craft the compact oort. As an example, if it takes 100 oort shards to make 1 unit of compact oort and 1 oort shard last 1 hour and 1 compact oort lasts 100 hours, then I am not sure that this really harms the community or create an unfair advantage for those who run portal networks. In fact it might be more beneficial to the individual that might not have anyone to refuel their portal if they go on vacation. At least for a group portal network they have the option of allowing others to keep their portals refueled.


#64

Dont forget that coin income created be portal networks are often funding contests.

On-topic. i dont think the compact oort should be used as fuel. For other places that create portals hubs we dont want that a portal is fueled for more then a month. If a portal is going to run for 2 or even 4 months, think about all the inactive portals which could be used be other players. Running in more shops that arent selling stuff and ect.


#65

Maybe the compact Oort can only be used on the larger portals and regular shards used for smaller portals


#66

I get that it’s a pain, but I think the fueling system is designed this way in order to promote a scalable use of server capital as the game matures and grows in popularity. As the # of planets and players increase, the system can get weighed down by loads of non-active player portals without any active way to prune them. If we want to continue using a seamless connection system, it has to be supported by active players… or be paid for by more expensive gleam club, idk :sweat_smile:


#67

I can see if they decide to bring compact oort to the game it only being used for larger portals. ones that only allow max 4 days and over. portals smaller then that can be fueled with the regular oort. maybe they can consider it long distance portal fuel. closest thing i can think to reference is like in Stargate when traveling in our galaxy a certain amount of power is needed but when traveling to the Pegasus galaxy (SGA) more power was required.

Sry for editing so much at work right now.


#68

was writing this reply myself then spotted this one completely agree with simoyd thx man


#69

I would like building blocks made out of oort. But honestly I think that if you have a portal made of 10+blocks gets two slots for fuel, and a portal made of 24+ blocks gets three slots for fuel. This keeps portals from staying open super long, makes it so large portals can stay open longer but less than you can currently fuel several smaller portals for (time not cost mind you), and prevents any kind of forseeable abuse since all per/hr and crafting costs would remain the same.

I agree that with large portals not being able to be fueled for a week is very hard for someone who can only play primarily on the weekends to upkeep (by themselves or even in a group). I have few close friends in game that’d i would trust with premissions on plots so the have friends do it arguement is just silly to me.

The timer expiring so quick is the only reason why the largest portal i use is a 4 block portal at this time.


#70

@Simoyd - You’re invested in portal networks. You’ve put your life into that and delivered something that should be respected. I feel the same about any person that runs a large network like you. You all are dedicated bunch and deserve credit and reward for that. I could have but personally chose not to run a competing network and just support the ones in existence because I know it takes consistent dedication to keep the portals live. You all choose each day to keep that network running and could chose to step back and let others do the work. Either way I will never think ill will of that choice to stay in the game that way.

I was sharing a view on how I see things and wasn’t trying to get personal or be critical and certainly didn’t mean to offend you or feel disrespected or not valued, etc. I can understand maybe how my words came off like that. You know I ran a network myself alone so I get the effort behind it.

The main portals get benefits of footfall, notoriety, ease in growing area because it becomes a hub, etc. They become the central place for the game. Not all people in the game get that because the game mechanics don’t really support it like they do shops/portals. That is basically what I meant. Portals are one aspect to a much bigger game and not everyone can compete or receive the same type of rewards.

In fairness you all have touted having 15 million+ coin. You earned that money but current average players have nothing in the game at all supporting them to get above their few thousand or whatever. There is no draw for people to go to them versus use networks. So that is what I sort of meant by passive reward versus work, etc. Of course that is the Game designers issue to solve and I’m not trying to take away from the effort you all put in.

I never want to get in a line by line debate and don’t really feel that will help. I was just trying to be very simplistic in approach and breaking out things that were not directly related to fueling a portal. Growing a hub and doing community things aren’t related to fueling portals on a micro level but running a network on a macro level. Only getting shards, the time it takes to fuel/run around, and length of portal.

Please understand I really was just innocently stating some views quick in the thread and not trying to stir a pot. At the end of the day I still think Luca needs to explain the real world costs and that there should be no reason to not extend large portals fuel amounts a bit at least or make it so a person doesn’t have to make this game their life to keep a portal running for at least weekend to weekend.


#71

If the issue is really for things like vacation or other stuff then we really should have the option for others to input shards or something. Like the discussions we had a long time ago about allowing general public to keep portals open.

Of course the only issue with general public inputing shards then is that it will become very hard for any other network to compete against the established group. So that would further make people feel that there is a portal network monopoly and remove another aspect in the game people can play alone in without joining the established group.


#72

I don’t agree with this, and I think that convincing people of this idea is toxic for player retention.

EDIT: It also may influence the devs balance things in a way I dont agree with.


#73

You know I just took the time to try to put us on a good page and respond to you as a person. I actually thought you were trying to build a bridge between us. Yet, you couldn’t take a second to acknowledge the response at any level and instead just find another point to pick at.

I don’t appreciate you taking my statements and make it look like I am promoting ideas that are toxic to the game or influencing the devs in a wrong way.

The numbers can prove the exact amount but from my last conversation with the devs if I remember right - there are only a handful of millionaires. So it isn’t toxic to state a point that people have a few thousand to their name. I’m find adjusting my view when the Devs provide actual metrics.

Let’s be clear that most people do not have a way to earn the amount of income portal networks or an established shop creates. An obvious fact of the game is there aren’t very many ways to earn income - hence why the devs are considering ideas on how to generate coin.

Player retention has a whole bunch of things that funnel into it way beyond coin amounts. Hell I could argue longer portal times could be bad for player retention… but I’m not.


#74

I can’t count how many portal networks exist these days. Are there still people who feel this way?


#75

I feel like I spoke directly to the central idea of your post that I disagreed with, and I think that I specified the reason why I disagreed with it. I don’t think I ignored any your post, I just think it’s a lot of paragraphs for what could be said in a sentence or two. I understand that different people communicate in different ways. You’re welcome to write as much as you want, I never meant to cause pain.

I’m not arguing for the sake or arguing. I’m specifically aware right now that when large amounts of people believe portal networks are OP, our guild receives a lot of hate. And from my perspective portal networks are not OP.

Half a dozen people spending significant amounts of their free time don’t deserve to be hated due to a few of the more active people on the forum, so I’m helping by communicating the effort that everyone puts in. I’m trying to be active on the forum myself.

I’m respect that you didn’t feel the need to put as much effort into your network, but perhaps that’s why it didn’t fare quite as well, remember we ran a network in early access too. I think if you put lots of effort into this game, there are several ways to make a lot of cash. A portal network is only 1 of those ways.

You talk about the devs citing millionaire counts, but I don’t think that’s really an ideal metric to your point. I’m more curious about throughput (total purchases and sales within a time-span) than current liquid cash. Do they have any metrics on that I wonder?

This is the central point that I don’t agree with. Stating it again won’t change my personal opinion. I don’t want to be rude, but every time you say it, I’m going to say the opposite. Wrapping a bunch of paragraphs around it won’t confuse me. I’m a smart guy :wink:

I never said it didn’t. I’m saying that people thinking there’s no way to earn coin may influence them into leaving, when there’s certainly plenty of coin going around.

Again, I’m not trying to be rude, and I’m sorry that my previous post read that way. If you’re allowed to repeat your opinion, then you should allow me to repeat mine.


#76

if we split this money between the people who have significantly contributed (our vetarans of which we have 23) then everyone would have just over half a million.


#77

When you respond to a person stating you are not trying to be rude and then that person takes the time to say they understand and they were not trying to offend you and gives you compliments - normal human behavior is to say “thank you” or so some way of acknowledging their words.

You failed to do that. Which is actually being rude and dismissive of their attempt to make amends.

Instead you just focused on your opinion and finding a point in what I said that you could disagree with and picking a select set of words I used to try to make me out as being wrong and causing toxic behavior and influencing the devs in the wrong way. If it is that bad being a portal network owner then just stop and allow some of the other portal networks to get more love.

Clearly you aren’t trying to build any bridges and learn how to communicate with people that have opposing views - or at least me. You really need to take a step back from being so identified with being a portal owner receiving all this possible hate and work and all these things you talk about. Maybe then you’d understand more where I am coming from instead of being on your side of the gap.

Then you’d also be able to understand what I am saying and not take my words incorrectly. I put plenty of effort in my EA network and decided not to do a Release network even though it would have been very easy to compete with PS in the beginning of the game. I and others just chose not to.

In regards to you trying to break down my opinion with your “smarts” as you put it, there is no need. I never said you weren’t smart. There is only a set amount of ways to earn income in this game based on actual in game mechanics and everyone knows it. Footfall and selling stuff. Anything else is some other method that does not have a game mechanic behind it so it shouldn’t be considered part of the conversation due to no balance behind it.

You trying to distract people from income mechanic won’t work because they see your 15 million and their 5000 coin in their wallet and how much in footfall you pull in versus them. But as you said that isn’t the point and I’m fine stopping this discussion because it is off topic at this point.


#78

There is some chat going on here…but I do want to draw attention to the point in the thread:

There is support for larger portals having multiple slots (or a way to fuel only larger portals for longer) up to a week or so (or a little more)…don’t want smaller portals to last longer, they are good the way they are.

I support this


#79

Discuss topics please, not the people in them. Take that stuff to PM if you must, but don’t derail this thread any further please.


#80

ok

no

yes!


#81

So you want me to do what I’m doing now instead, quote every line so you know I read it, then repeat my point after every line? I personally don’t think that’s an effective way to communicate. I think we’re both capable of writing our ideas more concisely. Lets assume the communication issue is my fault. my communication problems are still off topic.

Why does it have to be bad? I’m playing the game and having fun. So are many other portal seekers members who don’t have access to our footfall. again this is off topic.

Personally I view everyone as equal. Communication takes two. Saying your’re trying to be nice then continuing the hate speech isn’t holding up your end of the communication. Again this is off topic.

I’m pretty sure I do understand where you’re coming from. But correct me if I’m wrong where your coming from is completely off-topic right? Regardless if portal networks are OP or not, having small portals stay open forever is ridiculous. You’ve stated that you agree:

the hate speech on portal networks that followed however is off topic. I’m simply communicating the truth of the effort we put in behind the scenes. As soon as the hate speech stops, my responses to the hate speech will stop. Again this is all off-topic.

I know you did. but there must a difference between your failed network and our successful network. Claiming that you are an authority on portal networks is untrue I think. It does not give your opinion any more weight than mine. I’m sorry that it’s a personal thing you value, and by communicating my opinion of your network, the intention isn’t to hurt you. You chose to put yourself out there, and deliver a hate speech at the same time. You have no right to feel hurt when you force me to either attack you or have the community attack PS. I’m not going to sit here and be a punching bag. You dug your own emotional grave here. Again this is all off-topic

we have plenty of competition from people who have put effort in well after release. I think the main think people don’t notice is how much effort and though we’ve put into our policy and how it improves the network user experience. Again this is all off topic.

Selling stuff includes a great vast amount of possibilities. Again this is off-topic.

it’s not mine. the guild owns it, If the money were to go only to the people inside the guild, I think over 40 people would have some claim to it, if not more. Our members are in the same spot and most seem to be able to make coin just fine without getting any footfall from the gateways.

People coming on the forum looking at their 5000 then seeing posts saying the only way to get coin is portal networks makes people quit. It’s even worse because it’s not true. I am here to keep the public aware of that. again this is off-topic.

If you keep trash talking I will keep defending myself. This is the only reason I’ve been responding this whole time. Why you’re continuing the hate-speech is beyond me. Why does you opinion regarding the income of portal networks matter at all in this topic? I’m only here to let people know your off-topic opinion is the minority. everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think it’s hurtful because it’s based on false assumptions.