Concerns on p2w

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There are no pay to win features! I wish you would stop spreading false information!!!

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Well, actually its based on how you define pay to win.

I’m using way older definition from harsher times, when games had features/items paywalled. That is and was Pay 2 Win for me. Boundless is not this type of game.

But for some people p2w means that paying players can advanced a bit faster than not paying one. I don’t agree this is how P2W should be defined but i can understand different opinion. In this case boundless has some traces off it implemented. Very little imho, but yeah, it is present.

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Paying players Cannot advance faster!!!
Your Cosmetic’s do not make you gain XP faster!
Your empty plots if you so decided to buy those don’t allow you to mine faster…
Harvest resources faster, create machinery faster, or advance in anyway faster!!!

Again these is No advantage you can get with money in this game other then the ability to plot large amounts of land which does not have any benefit that translates into faster progression or winning…

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Actually, IMHO, people should first think and then write, but that’s not very common theses days. And when I mostly agree with you (and I’m not aiming thoughtlessness at you), I believe you have to define what does “to win” mean in boundless to even start wondering if it is or can be P2W game. And I am unable to find any conditions that would make you win in this game. In most MMO’s it’s killing baddest boss on the most difficult setting and/or getting the best gear ever. In Boundless… there are really no bounds to what can be considered “win” conditions, so there is really, effectively, no “win” conditions, hence this game can’t be P2W

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What are we trying to win exactly, Capital bragging rights? Who gives a ■■■■, just have fun and build cool stuff. I get that footfall is a thing but realistically, you dont need to buy player made items to progress at all. It’s just a luxury.

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I’m stymied. Maybe it’s because I’ve been playing this game since 2014 and missed some kind of zeitgeist shift, but how, exactly, does one “win” Boundless? What are the end game conditions that determine who “wins” and who “loses”? Without that hard definition, whining about it being a “pay to win” game make the complainant appear to be an insufferable entitled attention-seeking miscreant who found they were unable to gank newbies or grief builders in-game and felt the urge to feed their schadenfreude through attempting to destroy the great work of others by tearing down the game itself.

So, without defining what “win” means, crying “pay to win” is a complete empty claim that says more about the claimer than the game.

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Agree. On the other hand i think a lot of those people consider win being mayor of capital or similar stuff. Maybe biggest possible build, clearly visible from outer space (or sanctuary). I do disagree that buying plots is such a heavy thing, but i do see where they are coming from. I don’t agree with them that this is Pay2Win, but I have to acknowledge that there is some advantage in paying up, especially since i’ve used it myself :stuck_out_tongue: (and build roads which i do consider community service xD).

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The shop is fine. I don’t mind people using cubits to complete their build.
More plots mean more work in the end.

If they begin to sell XP boost and special blocks. This would be game changer mechanics.
But we are not here yet.

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I think there are some lessons about being the capital from the old universe. Remember Pixal Gate? it was the capital for a long time. Then people moved on and it was not the capital anymore. On several planets the capital changed over time as players moved on to their next build and the old ones either regened or were just abandoned.

I think with more planets in the new universe, we will see more of this type of things. Cities will rise and fall. New players and some of the older players will want to make their mark and not by adding to an existing city but by building a new city. There is really nothing to stop people from making cities and growing them. There is nothing to stop people that have builds in cities from removing them and thereby reducing a city’s prestige.

In general I agree that Boundless is not Pay 2 Win. To the point raised there is no end game so how do I win? I think you win by doing what it is that you want to do. I want to build. I have several things I want to build and given enough time I will build them and feel like I have done what I want in game. Some people want to run a shop. Some people want to run Portal Networks. Some people want to kill Cuttles. Anyone can do any of these things for as long as they want and if they get bored with it, they can move on to something else.

I personally think the time has passed for this argument.

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Technically, a paying customer can buy a ton of plots, set up a massive road network far beyond what a new player could afford with plots, and reap the benefits.

Footfall is a BIG deal, the more you have, the more money you make, and right now, you CAN buy footfall via plots basically.

But that isn’t even the main problem. Being able to spend real money on plots is an atrocious message to send to consumers who are buying a voxel game and it’s no surprise it backfired in the reviews.

If someone wants to drop $1000 to buy plots that they have to them grind away filling with materials, go for it. Portals provide far better foot traffic than a random road on a planet. That’s the way to bring cash in, getting a portal set up on a hub

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This is what I agree with 100%.

I know the game isn’t p2w but I’m also an experienced Boundless player who’s been backing for months.

When trying to bring NEW people into the universe who have little to no knowledge of how the game works, and they see shiny boxes that can be purchased with real money within the first 30 min of the tutorial, they are going to seem shocked, confused, mad, etc. because they don’t know what cubits are and what they’re used for.

All they see is you can buy this in-game currency and the tutorial is also trying to lead them to that in a way and it turns them off and then posts like this OP happen.

I know Wonderstruck is genuine and means well but I think the timing and implementation of it in the tutorial is hurting the game for those that are brand new.

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You can look at my first post ever here, or maybe second, I mentioned how galling I thought it was to make loot boxes (or things that appeared the same) to be introduced in the tutorial.

The response?

I was told it was fine.

edit I’ve read on Steam and here though that they are changing how the coffer system works to fix this, but it was bad to launch it this way, no doubt… What I don’t get is why I was told it was fine, when it’s clearly not…

edit 2 I realize now this thread is dead lol, anyway, it’s being worked on, so let’s see what fixin’ the devs implement and then provide feedback after that! :smiley:

I’ll stop bumpin’ this.

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Let’s be more transparent than that. There were two sides to this community and one group said what you did, and plenty of us said it had components that fit it somewhat.

We as a community dropped it because neither side was willing to give and the conversations weren’t being productive.

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Somewhat related, but @Steggs101 posted this over on the Steam forums, which I think will help a good amount:

Well… at least, we sort of agree - You’re actually only taken to the rewards section of The Exchange, the game never asks you to go the purchasing menu. There is a reason we did this at first, and it’s because The Exchange is simply where you go to get your rewards from levelling up, completing feats and doing objectives. But as The Exchange and the purchasing menu are within the same menu (you tab over to the purchasing menu), it does look a bit off. So we’re working on moving the purchasing menu to an entirely different place in the game, and re-working the tutorial a little bit so players don’t feel like they’re being told to buy more items.

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I don’t want to really get in the middle of the conversation because my views about this topic are pretty known. I think most people forget that “winning” is contextual in nature and not an absolute.

But, if we are going to list numbers we should be accurate. I didn’t do the math personally but you do not get 15k plots for $125 even with Oortian bonuses (which obviously I know about). I think a plot is something like 0.38cents or something.

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What is a skill set? Lol im lvl 20 and still dont know

You forget footfall is based on settlement rank and prestige. Plotting everything in existence for footfall doesn’t work unless there is sufficient amount of work done in those plots.

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The only “Pay 2 Win” I’ve seen so far is spending money on ePeen stuff, which really is what most people spend money on to begin with…

A skill set is basically a page of skills. Every page is limited to 100 skill points, and you can have 3 skill sets per character. So effectively you can use your skills until level 150. (Which is of course 50 and then 100 levelups)

Oh so you dont have to reroll an alt if you dont want to. Thats awesome ty