not saying its the ideal system, just saying i used sooo muuuch money trying to get the hot chicken wings recipe >.<
so what about skills instead of professions? but the stronger the skill the better of an item youâll make, someone with lvl 1-5 smithing can make 1 8 dmg sword but a lvl 6-10 can make a 10 dmg sword.
but at the start you have a basic recipe book, throughout collecting, fighting you can find recipes the ones that are harder to get aka drops from titans will be better, you can also learn recipes through crafting, if you craft enough weapons you can randomly learn new weapon recipes based around what you are doing at that time, woodwork = bows, staffs, shields. Smithing = weapons, armour etc, Alchemy = new poisons, experimenting ingredients this way devs could secretly implement new recipes without anyone knowing,
The end crafting goal would be to obtain all the recipes for each skill ill draw up a gui for a better visualization.
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Well, I donât think it should be a need to find a recipe or to craft one to unlock new possibilities (at least not for basic items, only for bonus attributes or stats). The idea of getting a little better stats through a higher score in the skill is exactly what I wish for. It can also effect durability, speed or other basic stats of items.
Recipes could also be a good system for adding additional skins for items. For example a titan may drop a recipe to make a normal iron sword with a new look. Those recipes then also may have a requirement for using them (that would not effect solo players to much I think 
). Skins which are rare or special were a good cause of economy in guild wars 1, where the max stats of items was reached quick and easy. There the look of the Char was more important then the itemâs stats itself, so many players payed the income of weeks for just being able to wear a stylish crystal sword or other rare skins
now to go and research my last trait for smithing in ESO
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Japp, that Ui would be simple but efficient. To summarize the recipes in level or tier groups is a good idea. On this way its more overseable.
I think that if the output item is effected by the skill (in damage, durability, chance for higher rarity,âŚ) it should be also a matter from which tier the item is. For example with medium smithing skill rank you would build stone swords with a good bonus, iron ones with a medium bonus and higher with an even lesser or no bonus (or higher chance for a better rarity)
Great post Zouls, and you donât need to apologise or warn anyone about any of your posts they are neither offensive or arrogant in the slightest.
Firstly:
A sandbox game is where everything is immediately available to the player without any limitations such as levels, classes, quests, in game currency etc. Minecraft does this well, I think anyone would agree that Minecraft does sandbox well, and you definitely have progression in minecraft, the whole game is a progression. An rpg is where you play the role of something you yourself are not, hence role-playing. Sandbox isnât role-playing unless you create a role for yourself. You can have a sandbox themepark game, itâs where there are no limits based on your current level in the game, itâs where all the possible rides are available for building, using the rollercoaster analogy. I donât think WOW fits with what you outlined though.
If you have something you can make it, thats the point of a sandbox, to not be limited by levels, defined classes, skill sets, perks, etc.
I do not argue against progression! What I argue against is using an exp level based system for crafting, I have already said that this would work well for combat because it reflects combat well. You do not need levels to define your progression in a game, this is my point. Now I do accept that in a player based economy that defined professions will help hugely. However, I think that if you have to spend days crafting the same item because it yields the best Xp points of the items you can craft at your current level to get to the next level where you will inevitably have to do the same thing again, for the sake of getting to one item you need, is a stupid crafting system. It is not rewarding, it is not fun, it does not represent crafting.
I think where we differ is that you define progression in games by levels, where level 50 means you have progressed more than a level 10 player, which is fine, thatâs great, those systems work for the games that use them, and I thoroughly enjoy games like that. Those games have an end game, they have a limit which is defined by the max level, Oort doesnât need to have a max level and end game if it is based on sandbox game principles, in fact the gameplay loop outlined by the devs quite clearly shows a robust loop system that need not be limited to world level 10 at the end.
Iâm not going to argue anymore points because I have outlined by view previously. Neither am I going to outline a full system because to do so would be extremely presumptuous that what I think is better than the devs ideas or yours for that matter, and Iâm sure the devs have something clear in mind anyway that we will here about soon.
100% agree with the article and the paragraph before it. Maybe having a system like you have outlined will be better for the player driven aspect, again I will say here that for crafting at least, the crafting of weapons and armour could be controlled by a levelled combat system, such that despite the availability of good weapons due to a crafting system which i have alluded to new players wont just be able to buy them and use them.
I largely agree with most of what you have written, I still think however that level based crafting would be a bad idea, if the devs go with it i will still play, but the game will be about how much time you have rather than how much you know about what you are doing. Having defined professions might be useful but it would be a bad idea to limit the amount you can choose, the only real use for having defined professions is to advertise that you can do one in the economy system. If you want a game that is more free and open to choice then you donât have linear skill paths, and defined professions based on exp points, I think thatâs pretty obvious.
A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal limitations are placed on the gamer to stop them, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a âworldâ to which the gamer has full access from start to finish.
none of which is immediately available nor does it mean you cant have a system in which you have to work for what you can get. Its just that theirs nothing stopping you from getting it.
So if you want to build a house you can go out and get the materials and build it
If you want to grow as a crafter you can gather supplies and work towards getting better
If you want to grow your character then you can
None of this goes against sandbox games. And nothing is really âimmediately availableâ like in minecraft if i want a diamond pickaxe then more and likely im going to hunt down diamonds which im not always good at finding -.-
But having skills, progression, combat, crafting, and all that doesnât go against the idea of sandbox games, but its also not mandatory to have these features in the game therefore there not always added into other sandbox games.
Soooo just dont have a certain item with a lot of exp you dont even really need exp.
just base it on something like item type and quality
Example:
Craft an 10 excellent quality sword
Craft an 13 average quality helmet
The list could go on
And having to craft the same or similar item more then once isnt a bad thing when crafting is challenging and other players would rather build there character to there play style or are having fun doing other things such as exploring, building, chatting with friends, slaying titans where are the items in the shops going to come from? If everything is player made and not everyone wants to focus on crafting and crafters only make things for themselves what do you think is going to happen? do you think economy and coming to gather as an in-game group community is magically going to happen? It sounds like a great way to get people to play more solo
If a solo player is more in to PVE and blacksmithing, but needs some potions happens to have a lot of extra weapons how could he get rid of them and get what they need? hmmmmmmmm maybe just maybe it might be appealing for them to go to a town and sell some of there extras and buy some potions and while there they in that busy town might make some friends or come to town more often encouraging the player to be say less of a solo player and interact with other players a little more.
AND Bloop
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Thank you! I agree with everything. Especially with the solo-player part 
I always thought this game is going to be a coop game where you have to work together with friends and other players. Proffesions would encourage players to work together.
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And again for the solo players: And how do you handle that on private servers and/or modded rental servers for a single player or just for two or three friends? Whatâs with players who want to play alone to feel the wilderness and donât want to trade or take the quick and easy way? All that are gameplay styles that also has to be supported. Solo play is and will be a constant which has to be kept in mind, not only as problem, but as an wanted way to play the game.
Yes exactly, Iâve said this somewhere above a few times.
A crafting system with levels and exp is more likely to lead to a bad economy because thatâs what people will focus on.
The reason this will work is because in many MMORPGs players only sell high end gear that they craft, all the basic items are provided by NPC shops, in the absence of NPC shops, the players will have to do that, and having to do that will force an economy, guilds and groups of players working together to make it fair, thats why we need a crafting system that isnât defined by what level you are. The fact that there are no NPC shops will force players to either provide for everyone else or focus completely on themselves, currency will shift it towards providing for everyone else I hope. And professions or no professions will not matter at all, what will define what happens is your own selfishness or selflessness.
You could have something like the number of players on the world affects the worlds difficulty, so if you have your own server and world that it will allow a solo player to progress whereas a world with 10 players will need, say, 8 of them to band together to get to the next one.
I know someone is going to say this isnât real life and I agree with them that Oort Online is not real life 
but in real life no one person can make everything and does have to trade with others especially in the medieval-renaissance era which I think is similar (slightly) to the era that Oort is (besides the fact that there is magic and protectors and massive titans and some weird looking creatures and soon-to-be people) and so where one person could do a lot they still have to trade for some necessities but I do think they should be able to craft basic stuff of everything so that they can survive but should need to specialise in order to obtain higher quality equipment.
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For the part of âAnd professions or no professions will not matter at all, what will define what happens is your own selfishness or selflessness.â (sorry, canât quote on the mobile ^^) âŚ
There will be economy, yes, but only for mats cuz everyone would be able to make everything. The role of "Iâm a Smith smithwho sells his works to travellers and wandering traders passing bye will be no fun and just meaningless when there is no way for me to be a better smith then every other player walking on the world. Professions are a need for having an God working economy also with crafted items.
And for the part of world adjustment through the number of players: Even if that may be a way to give groups of players a bit more tough encounters in the wild or with titans it would not help out when it comes to crafting professions and the need to be able to build everything. Even if it would be possible to lay a guardian of tier 4 with a wood sword would be a way to get rid of the problem, it seems not to be a way I would encourage it. Also even if there are more then only one or two players in an area that doesnât mean that they want to cooperate. When I want to play alone then i donât care about another passing players or groups and the world should do the same
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maan⌠@TheBirne your logic is as messy as ever in my eyes in terms of crafting system, but we have discussed that an ungodly amount of times by now, so lets leave it at that XD
I wanted a wow style ââpick 2ââ crafting at first to boost economy, but so many people cry for solo play (its an MMO god damnit xD) that i have had to change my view on it, i would be fine if it took long to do, so what i say is balance the game for party players in terms of crafting and combat while making it insanely tiresome to try and solo, but not impossible.
example of killing normal mobs would be solo plays, but dungeons with rarer materials should be group content, lets assume we had professions and compare how long it will take to get from tier 1 to tier 2 after starting.
Lets assume you start and fight, you fight for 1 hour level up your swordskill and leather armor and now you need better armor and weapon to get higher in sword skill (if we assume that not everything on a tier is the same difficulty), you have your friends to help you, a miner that gives ore, a huntsman/survivalist that provided the leather, a leatherworker who makes the armor, and a weaponsmith that can make the sword, now they have all used that one hour you used on fighting all of these things, which means that they have the required knowledge to help you and reached a good point in that crafting style, you get the items and you can keep fighting, this happens 3 times where you need to get better stuff for the tier you are on so you can reach the titan in 3 hours.
now a solo player have to do all of this himself, meaning for each step 1 hour is not enough, he needs to use one hour in each of the required professions, meaning that he have to use 5 hours for every step, meaning the people who worked together and complimented eachother, got the figther through the tier on 3 hours, but the solo player had to use 15 hours on it.
Now i know the first thing im gonna get in my face is the argument ââbut thats grindyââ which is the point, it should be grindy. people in here have a habit of saying they dont care how hard it is to solo as long as they can do it, it shouldnt be impossible, but it should take a massive increase in time because the player needs to do all of these jobs at once.
that is my view on solo vs unity plays, i think it was someone on steam who said ââallow people who solo to survive, but not thriveââ which i agree on.
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I agree with this part.
This part not so much though it could as well just be skill you acquier by doing it or recipes you are given by the players you work together with, what is important is that you can do something different from a large amount of the players.
Well⌠i guess that is partially true⌠but i would assume that it is not quite the same. (if i understood what you meant correctly)
alright lets assume that everybody can craft the basics (or not even) and you could make better things by having recipes. this would remove the need for material leveling (the classic make things to get better at making things) so to compare lets say something like going from 1 to 10 in weaponsmithing takes 50 iron ores and then you could make a steelsword, but using recipe systems you just have to find a steelsword recipe and you can make it, this removes the demand for those 50 iron ores for every single player who wants to level, meaning that the supply and demand scale changes, you could however balance it out by just making every material more rare, but its something to keep in mind.
and the fact if there are no limitations on skill system then everybody can learn recipes, meaning that there is no downside, what so ever, to learning a recipe. which means that as you said people would still trade with eachother, but since there are no downside to learning a recipe it would mostly be fighters who finds the recipes and just being a crafter would not really be a thing (by saying downside i mean something as basic as time, if i use 1 hour on crafting that is an hour i didnt use on fighting, but with recipes i can just run through the game fighting and finding recipes, i didnt have to lose an hour on that)
so only partially true in my eyes i guess.
professions are kinda a wide term though, it might just be a massive skilltree called crafting, but to have a need for people in crafting it is usually required to split it up. so having a ââblacksmithââ profession will mean you might only need one blacksmith, but if you split it up on ââarmorsmithââ and ââweaponsmithââ you would need both, you could even split it up more by calling it ââarmorsmithââ, ââlight weaponryââ and ââheavy weaponryââ then you need 3 to craft everything with metal, so instead of only 1 peron being useful in a city you could have 3 living in the city, all with their own specialization. (hope its explained well enough)
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Yup you understodd that just fine.
And that is some quite good points against using recipes only, which i took up mostly to show that you can make working systems without necesarily using proffesions which is a term people keep going back to.
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Well isnt that just cause ââprofessionsââ is such a wide term?
its like saying ââskill systemââ it can be almost anything, i try very specifically to not say it have to be a certain way (list, crafting grit. etc) i just think its important (as you also mentioned) to have systems in place where you can feel useful, even when being one amongst many. i have sadly seen some games where that isnt the case.
it could look like this
or this
or this
or instead of having one tree having multiple skill types placed in boxes like the repopulation
or SWG
ââProfessionsââ are the same as skilltrees, just defined for crafting only, but its a very vague term. its made as way to put things into boxes or categories so its easier to understand, meaning we know somebody who makes potions is an alchemist and somebody who makes swords is a weaponsmith, instead of calling them crafter and crafter.
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One thing i donât want is the skill style in mmos, where you hotbar a selection then use it i hate it its not fun.
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