PS. im going to create a topic about combat… this topic is for crafting.
Hmm thats a nice way of looking at it indeed… makes it alot more clear, i can understand where you are coming from but what is progression then? flat stat increases like skyrim? does that mean when you start the game you have unlocked every single fighting style already? that is just what would worry me.
again i would like to put weight on the fact that hotbar skill combat is not the same as tab targeting i totally agree that we shouldnt have som cheap tab target combat (wow style) where you just spam all of your ablities, but saying that there is no skill and its all about pure burst is a bit of a misconception too
the beauty of a skill system is you can become who you are, its not like having skills will instantly make you wint the game, its how you use them that matters
well thats the point, you really cant, if you use a sword you can only do so much with it, if you use a bow there is only so much you can do with. i completely agree that it is more based on focused on playerskill because you have absolutely no customization over the fighting style but a skill system you have builds you can have different playstyles instead of just one, while you might not see that as playerskill (which i can understand why you wouldnt) it is because its halfly about getting a build that suits your playstyle and halfly about learning to play efficiently with that build.
by that quote i was meaning, you can decide what weapon sets you will switch between and whether you will do more stealth rather than up front swords swinging, or if youll mix? and then there is the switching weapons, use range till they get close, and then switch to swords, or daggers for even better attack speed.
im going to make a new topic for this.
Progression would be the ability to take down the bigger, harder enemies through your fight style, and the progression through the tweaking to your weapon, cause the weapon you use is the side factor to a fight.
this also would make you focus on upgrading your equipment more, better equipment for the big fights, you can spawn in and not necessarily take down everything but then that drives you to upgrade and practice your fight style, what attack combos work better for you? it is flat but it is a more immersing system in my opinion
Well private or modded servers will have to figure that out for themselves like they do with everything else. I think they will be fine as single players could do there thing and a group of friends could choose to work together or not they will also be able to change up the game rules with modding a all that too so if they want to opt out of anything or make it all creative they will probably have servers like that. I’m saying if a player wants to play solo they can however have some things to encourage them to join the rest of the players and of course the choice is up to them they dont have to do anything they dont want too.
Having something to mark your progress inst bad it helps when talking to other players and friends to let you and them know where you are in that field other then that you could do with out levels and all that.
There is a lot of different factors that play into the economy in other MMORPG
- Like you stated NPC’s normally sell basic items, but everything is
player made on Oort. I dont think the super basic items will be super
hard to make and thus they probably wont be in the market nor will
they start a strong market, however, as players progress in there
crafting professions more the need for said market will be needed and
shops and all that should be up and ready at this time.
If the shop block was made to use the token system and had permissions it should help with shop clutter a little as well as not to endanger a town to become a ghost town.
- even if you take away EXP and levels its not going to stop players from making high end items why mostly because these items will be better and make the crafter more money that said your kind of stuck with that. There are ways to deal with it thou such as if crafting was made into the loop and stronger players started to move to higher tiers this would also mean that the crafters buyers are moving thus encouraging the higher level crafters to move to a tier in which they can sell there goods a ways to help this even more would be to make portal shards somewhat uncommon there for they have more value and making portals is a bigger deal and players arnt just using them willy nilly lol. I thought a mobile home idea would make this easier for crafters as well as other players like explores or non builders to move on to new tiers easier where they will strong PVE players could make a safe haven on the new dangerous and hostile tier. and the crafter would now be making the basic times for the new players coming to that their
If theirs something the encourages players to work on there character in there grade tier it will help the economy stay fresh and good in that tier
So like new player goes to a tier 3 world 1 they will die easier if not every 2 to 5 seconds and all the goods will be to high for them to use. maybe even have surviving a titan battle as a requirement
Because from what I notice in a lot of MMORPGs anywhere around level 10 to level 30 you go to the main town or cap and every level of player is there and of course the economy is going to favor the higher end players because they provide more money. Also encouraging a separation while not forcing it tends to make a good social aspect just because the lower end plays dont judge each other as much and can grow and all that because there all kind of newish.
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Without arguing about the support for solo players anymore (You have your opinion, I’ve mine 
) I just want to add a simple aspect which would be fundamental for a good economy in Oort even on lower tiers: …
Not only that there are no NPC traders is a (possible) bonus for the traders and crafters of the lower tiers. Oort as an sandbox crafting game has the opportunity to use even another aspect: The lack of “finished” item drops. If there are no item drops like weapons, equip or armor from monsters there is a even greater need for handmade items by players which would encourage the economy. In the most MMORPGs people can live with the items they find while grinding and questing without the need to buy stuff from a local trader or the auction house (Best Example would be WoW, but most others have the same mechanic). But if you let there be NO (Not even a single) item obtainable through simple slashing or quests the people need to use weapons and other stuff made by players. Of cause Monsters can and should drop mats, even special rare ones which may be used in crafting to get bonuses on items, but usable items? just No.
On this way we would get to a total playerdriven economy, which is something I really prefer for Oort in special
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OH so idea for recipes
What if they were some type of artifact or info orb that came from the old Oortians and there just here and there like a rare treasure hunt kind of thing. Like as the world regenerates it can spawn them in caves, water, or whatever and they can be a rare or semi rare to find while some are guarded by deadly animals or titans
There could be other things in the find like money or materials to craft stuff and build with.
Also what if 1 recipe only helped you like a 4th or 5th of the way so like you could kind of make a poison dagger with one, but if you wanted it better you had to hunt down more poison dagger recipes.
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When recipes will be a thing in Oort, then different ways to obtain them is something to look at, japp. I still hope they would be only for bonuses to items or for skins, but yes, to be able to search them, hunt them or dig for them should all be an option.
The mechanic for getting even a better bonus through finding and reading more of the same may be an option, but that’s something I would like to be connected to profession skills instead. But if there are no profession skills ingame that mechanic may help out as well … More refined mats it some from higher tiers also may be an option to reach those better bonuses as well.
It is a possiblity, but personally i hate 1 time use recipes XD
but definately a nice idea 
Phew, there’s a LOT going on here.
Maybe a better way to think about this – and the same way we think about design on a new feature – is what should be the goals of this system? We need do this without talking about features. For example:
- Players shouldn’t be able to join the game and quickly obtain the highest tier of gear through purchase or charity.
We can probably all agree on that goal, right? There’s multiple ways to achieve this, in ways that do and don’t affect other features with variable development costs. This is a really good place to start, especially when you’ve got a lot of potential solutions to one problem, it helps to agree on the fundamentals.
So, what should the goals of the crafting system be?
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Maan… i did my best to write it cause its a complicated answer but i can try to dumb it down
- Crafting should be a valid playstyle, in the same way that a fighter is
- Crafting should be split encourage player trade and be made in a way so there is a need for multiple crafters and not just one (like splitting blacksmith up into armorsmith, lightweaponry and heavy weaponry. very fine balance between too many and not enough)
- A player should be rewarded for choosing to play as a crafter, meaning if he has used time on leveling crafting he should be able to make things that other people cannot make, and make things that other people need (swords,potions,armor)
- Crafting should allow for specialization instead of just being ‘‘crafting’’, so either multiple ‘‘professions’’ or a crafting ‘‘skilltree’’ that will branch widely out for the different crafting styles.
- Since you have stated that NPC’s are not part of the plan, Crafting are going to be important in your progress meaning a figher who have a crafter that makes him stuff will complete stuff relatively fast, but if he tries to solo he needs to both fight, find the materials and level the crafting, making solo play possible but very time consuming
Most important one for me
- You should make yourself deserved to be a crafter, meaning it takes as much time and dedication as playing a warrior and that a person who just started will not just be given the ability to make max level gear (as he could if there are no restrictions)
Let me try to explain the reason for this just shortly. If crafting takes time and dedication to level it will be a playstyle and will encourage player trading, hence most likely making a more stable player based economy. If you can craft everything just by having the materials then crafting is not a playstyle or a feature of the game (in very drastic words) but rather a tool to achieve the gameplay (building, exploring, fighting)
it can be seen in MC very clearly, the crafting is not a playstyle, its the tool to get the things you need for building and exploring, which is what is defined as the gameplay. The hardest part and the biggest difference on the 2 games oort online and minecraft is that MC is singleplayer, in an MMO there are certain things which are important, such as making people feel unique, which is pretty easy in a singleplayer game, but not so much in a game with thousands of other players
I would like to discuss it if you have the time, its a bit hard to put in very simple terms to be honest, cause im not a game dev or anything like that, i have to make theories based on personal experience and what i have seen failed and worked before combined with personal view of games 
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That’s cheating! That’s a feature 
Feature 
Feature! 
Here’s how I’d express that as goals:
- Players should feel valuable within the Oort Online universe spending a large portion of their time crafting
- Players shouldn’t ever feel as if they’re wasting time crafting items for other players
- Players should feel as if continued investment within crafting is worthwhile
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Yeah that works very well, thank you. its just too vague for my taste, but i have said what i want to say for now then, everything is written the huge post i made a few days ago.
- Crafting should not require leaving the game to use
- Crafting should not get in the way of building
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can you explain? do you mean like no craftable blocks or…?
Building is a core feature. Some players will just want to make a home and build. They should not be forced to make it to the end game to do that successfully. Specifically, all types of building blocks should be “obtainable” by any player. Obtainable can include in-game trade.
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Ah well. that makes sense, i would personally like to see special blocks and props be craftable, if they go something along the lines of professions or split up crafting in any way then architect would be a nice one, i remember playing architect in wildstar and it was pretty cool being able to make house items
ofc you shouldnt be like ‘‘you cannot place this block cause you are not a crafter’’ ish, but i think that rare props would add a sense of accomplishment to building instead of just being given everything like minecraft creative mode.
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How i seen my idea they wouldn’t be 1 time use but more like fragments in which you can make lesser versions of the item while needing to collect the rest to make the superior and original item
I guess i should if explained better lol
Well I had many things to say (especially about zouls posts^^ nothing negativ this time^^) But in the form Ben demands I can only think of one thing:
- Crafting should be intertwined (I hope that’s the right word) with all, or a lot, of the other game aspects. But at the same time everything should be able to work without it.
Maybe in other words: Crafting should enhance other aspects of Oort and vice versa but everything should be enjoyable without each other.
If that was not understandable, ask please^^
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I just make a reply to the very first post here (since everything should be based on it, no?, and it just too much to read the rest xD)
So most of the things you said i can aggree with you except the following:
Not all titans should require a group im mentioning the “Giants” here from a different post that are smaller and possible to be defeated single handedly, most people should know what im talking about :D.
But thats just a little thing. So now to the main part: The skill system.
If i understand it right, you basicaly dont want an actual system at all rather have the actuall skill and knowledge of the game make you achive things. Like you have to know what you need to craft or build specific things and you can do it, and you have to know what armor and weapon you will need and how you have to act to defeat a certain enemy.
This on the first thought sounds nice but on the second … not so well.
Let me explain the main problem here.
You got a new player … he is playing a very long time discovering all the things in the game, defeated enemies finding ressources crafting items and building things. Than finding better ressources, crafting better items, building more impressive things and defeating stronger enemies and so on, until it’s given limit.
Now you put a second player and the first just gives this one a portion of the best gear he has, shares his home with him and explains all that stuff shortly and this second player without discovering all that by himself just is right there at the peak of the game because there is no system he just needs the tools, the knowledge and the ressources and all that he just got.
Well i don’t like that i don’t know how you think about it.
So what’s my solution?
Basically i wanna keep your idea but this requires a system that kinda forces the player to get allong with it without using the shortcut. Now you gotta say, woah, forcing the player for things mostly isn’t good but sometimes it’s better to lead the player to a more satisfing way.
You talked about that Knowledge and Skill should be everything, well than lets just be Knowledge and Skill being the system.
This means before you know how to use a certain type of material to craft something with, you should actually have found it and gather/mine it at it’s homeplace to better understand it’s purpose and type. Otherwise using it in the crafting menu just shouldn’t work.
This way each player actually has to venture out and discover all that stuff and “get the knowledge” about it before they can properly use it.
So what about tools, weapons and armor of higher tear?
Well you could say that they can’t use it before they have knowledge about all ingredients it’s made off but this would be a bit cheap.
I would rather say there are 3 Skill… Skillbars. Yeah thats fitting.
For Tools, Weapons and Armor, maybe 4 and you make Melee and Ranged Weapons, maybe a 5 for Shields, and maybe another one to divide the tools more. Thats a design and balance question.
So at first all Skillbars are on Rank 1. Means you just can use Rank 1 items. And once you used said items long enough the skillbar fills up and you gather experience to use higher ranks. Its a matter of testing how fast these bars should fill up and in which ways. Maybe crafting the item also gains you an decent amount in experience of its skillbar. I don’t know.
So this is just one idea. Basically what i said is that there has to be a way that players actually should go through a learning curve, that they still have to somehow proceed in the game by themself before they can get the greatest stuff.
The only problem i see with that is that high developed guilds that want more members probaly have to wait before these member raised up in “knowledge” and “skill” but actually isn’t it more interessting when members in a guild have … a different level? But maybe you can add some kind of school … more advanced players could craft books for specific ressources or items, once they gathers all possible knowledge about it and these books can be used by other players so their character actually gets the experience about the items, adding an actually possibility to read about it … well i would want to know at least.
Ok a long post, you see i like to write things and usally bring in a certain style so let me hear your thought about it :D.
EDIT: oh and to explain the mainthought like the devs want:
The player shouldn’t be able to craft high tear items without working for that knowledge
The best feeling in gaming in my opinion is the proud of achieving things.
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I like your ideas^^ but you might should have read the whole thread. Because most of it was already discussed. All your concerns and your solutions to it. (Or at least I think we did)
For me it falls into the same category as this:
Nonetheless, good idea^^