Crafting System

there are so many more threads with crafting systems in them

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/crafting-professions/2018

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/crafting-systems/436

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/suggestions-for-crafting-professions/793

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/crafting-tables/1395

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/customizeable-weapon-crafting/1168

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/crafting-pick-two/66

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/softcap-for-crafting/169

I’d like to point out that i didnt nit pick my topics, but rather i have made a ton of posts on it XD

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i was about to ask you for links xD

Just one Word (cuz I know something like that from other games): “NO!” :wink:

Well… thats technically one word and an exclamation mark, you lied!

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i forgot this

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/automated-timesinks/645

and this

https://forum.oortonline.com/t/showcasing-items-flavor-text-name/150

aaand a few more i wasnt sure was directly tied in.

High end items? Why not use a simple cool down timer rather than 24 HR time sink? Has the same outcome of preventing spamming of epics and it prevents the item being stolen/destroyed by another player while you’re offline. Also, instant gratification is not so bad.

I shudder in HORROR :tired_face:
these are the kind of mechanics used by Free-to-play games to get you to buy the premium currency

Aw, are you too fatigued to keep playing?
you could stop crafting for a couple hours… Or
Buy some Oort Ale, reduces your fatigue by 50% each only $.99 each

You need 10 points to craft that thing you want?
You COULD play the game for 10 hours, continuously (AFK gets booted)
OR you could pay $.99 each for additional points

No

Just

NO

talked about it in my automated timesinks

for me its not really to prevent them, but rather to make them more rare, i really like the idea cause it could create a niche, say if you need alot of materials to make the forges and there would be no restrictions, meaning that a person or a guild might use all of his time on forging that one special material and other people could buy it from him,

automated timesink vs a cooldown, point of automated time sink being you have to log back in and collect it rather than get it instantly, making people value what they craft a bit more, especially if we have no crafting professions.

Eh, Time sinks are just one step away from Or spend $x to finish it nao!!! type mechanics and can be a huge turn off for a lot of people. There are different pros and cons to each system, no of course. CD vs TS mechanics are basically the exact same thing except CD’s are front loaded (all the work/reward is at the beginning of the process) and TS are back loaded, unless of course you allow a player to have many of the same object being crafted at the same time, in which case you’re not exactly making it more rare so much as requiring them to log back in later to retrieve them.

Read… the post. you are saying what i have actually written in it :smiley:

and although it can be done poorly

this is an absolutely horrible argument XD

It’s really not, likeness to an unpopular mechanic is itself a detriment to the mechanic because people will associate the two and jump to negative conclusions. Let me back this claim up by using oort’s DLC offered on the steam page. We all know it’s not actually DLC, but people often see it and are instantly upset by it before even bothering to learn more.

Essentially, I agree that TS vs CD is nearly the same mechanically, but TS is perceived by a large population negatively as a money grab mechanic, and thereby the strongest counter arguement against it.

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I have to disagree with that point. Yeah many free to play games use time sinks to get players to pay money but that doesn’t mean that time sinks/cooldowns are generally a bad mechanic. They may even be necessary to some degree to extend the lifetime of certain content. For example: In WoW a weekly cd on raids is necessary to keep guilds from clearing new content in a few days or to stick with the crafting topic: making the best tiered materials also had a cooldown after you crafted one to keep them valuable over a longer period of time.
I personally would like to see high tier ores taking hours (days) to melt, meaning that you either have to build several furnaces or trade with other players if you need large amounts of that material.

@Zouls : To be fair, you cant expect that everyone who is new to the forum reads through all your threads before he posts something.

For the thread:
Fatigue could add a good use for food. Meaning that once you are fatigued you´d have to eat or rest (log out) before you can craft/mine with 100% speed again.
The idea of passive point gain is absolutely horrible though :smile:

Oh I think you’ve got me wrong. My point is not that time sinks / cool downs are a bad mechanic. My point is that how you impliment them is equally as important as why. A back loaded time sink where the reward comes at the end of a waiting period is often exploited and can leave a negative impression on players. A front loaded cool down timer is front loaded, and less often associated with exploitative practices. Wow uses CDs to great effect, where as TSs are more often associated with games like Farmville and micro transactions. (Do people still play farmville? I don’t even know what crappy ptw games people are playing anymore)

As a whole, both are a useful mechanic and I personally agree on their use, but I believe CDs are a safer bet than TSs.

Why safer? you could easily make it in a way so if you put it in only you can take it out, that is a counter for that one argument.

for being frontloaded, you are correct, which is why i dont like it, you go up and tadaah you suddenly have what you need, my point for the timesink is that it would stop people from just making high level items whenever they want, the same thing could be said for cd, but the difference is that if you have a 24 hour timesink then you can just instantly make it when you need it, while if you had a timesink you need to plan ahead, get the materials and THEN fuse them together and THEN forge the item. not just get the materials, instantly craft it and instant profit, cause while it would stop you from mass producing, it wouldnt affect every single item in a significant way, which is the difference you see that as a bad thing while i see it as a good.

Not quite, a cd system means instant reward for no work, which bothers me quite a bit.

Dont get me wrong, as you can read in the post, i know that automated timesinks can be done in a very very VERY bad way, but they can also be done in a good way, the best system i have seen is dragonage inquistion, that felt like a good timesink, while a system like eso trait system scaled up so high that you needed 1 month to learn a trait.

These things would only go on higher level items, and if that is the case an automated timesink can encourage people to log back in to get their stuff, that and the fact that there is something satisfying about being able to get an item you have waited for.

These and the fact that a CD system is less immersive in my eyes is why i would prefer automated timesinks, also i personally hate the ‘‘wait 20 hours for NO reason’’ thing, while the AT is ‘‘Wait 20 hours until it is DONE’’ :smile:

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‘‘new’’… well he backed before i did, i have talked with him alot and since i linked my entire opinion about it i would expect it to be easier to read rather than writing all of it again, no? XD

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Firstly, totally against a ‘point’ system.

Fatigue could be an interesting idea. Not really a use for it keeping people from strip-mining as we will have regenerating terrain. Might be a good timesink-esque mechanic; perhaps eating and resting can alleviate some of it? While it will keep people for using 100% of their time to craft, it will hardly stop mass production unless the fatigue penalties are crazy high.

Tbh, I’m with Zouls, I prefer timesinks to cooldowns. Instantly building anything is not very immersive. Skysaga’s method seems to work well: queue up to x amount of items in whichever crafting interface and let things tick down. If you have multiples, you can craft more things at once.

Yeah SkySaga’s system is pretty cool, but it might seem a bit excessive at times since everything takes time to craft, on the bright side the early things only take a minute or so.

Yea, I don’t think everything should take time to craft. Once you start getting into more complicated items it makes more sense. Remember though, sometimes the timesink for an item can simply be taking the time to find all the various pieces needed to craft. Obviously trading takes some of that time out, but it should still be considered.

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Nope. materials are ALWAYS the main timesink for crafting, timesinks are what holds mmos together, and material timesinks are one of the easiest to implement using material rarity, those who cant be bothered like iphone games will just use a stupid timesink like energy.

EDIT: an example would be 2 games, an mmorpg and an iphone game, if you want to craft a good sword the mmorpg would calculcate how long it would take to find materials, in average, so say you can find 50 iron ore in an hour that would mean that a sword that requires 25 ore is worth 30 mins, which is how i think most mmos work (i read up on it, seems to be the case but dont take my word for it) while instead an iphone game would just make you click the sword and then wait 45 minutes before it is done.

As i said i am for timesinks, and the biggest reason why the energy system is so hated is not entirely because there are timesinks, but rather the fact that you cannot do anything while those timesinks are working, they are literally made to be played for a few min and then wait some time, however in a game such as DAI the war table is a really good addition, because you can still go quest, talk, and explore while it does stuff in the background, when you come back you get something you wouldnt have before, maybe a schematic, some materials, some agenst or that like it, which is what makes it good.

so automated timesinks are not in theory as bad as people make them out to be, the problem however arise when automated time sinks is the ONLY way to use time in the game. which i sincerly hope will not be the case in oort, so i know its a fine line to walk, but done right it does add quite a bit to the game, if nothing else, the person will log back in to collect it, and then he might fix some other stuff, then craft a bit, then get a bit of mats, and before he know it he have been playing oort for 5 hours.

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