We have some economics majors in this group! Everyone here has brought up excellent points and ideas. Very applaudable.i enjoy reading everyones take on the situation!
I’d like to put in a cent or two into this conversation. Something to think about anyhow.
I wish there was a way to know which shop owners are still playing the game, and which ones have bailed in the last couple weeks. Not beacons, cause I’m on every day but typically wait till I get the pop up for them that it needs fuel. So that way is a good start,but can be too variable.
If I knew which shops still had frequent players, I’d be more apt to spend my money there. Where there lies a possibility of it getting cycled around. Opposed to the guy I just spent around 10k on for various crafting supplies who might not ever even grab the cash if he doesn’t play. (My apologies if that is you)
I have finally set up a shop that buys reasonable and sells 1-2c higher to cover tax. I’m buying everything, although I haven’t set up all the baskets yet. It’s expensive to start, and I’m no millionaire! I’m putting my foot in to help new players by buying even stuff I don’t actually need. If you don’t want or cannot yet set up a store and operate a portal, people can sell at my place and not feel ripped off. Still adjusting prices- I got slammed with flint over the weekend! No one ever needs that much flint!
We desperately need better, alternative ways of earning coin. My suggestions:
Bounties on NPCs (similar to EVE or WOW)
Rare treasure chests
re-work footfall
I would agree that there needs to be other methods for coin to get into the economy than footfall.
If we do need more coin then I would think the current footfall model is not the answer. Currently footfall (once fixed) goes to the beacons that get player traffic. This is great where it helps to support portal hubs. But as far as giving all other players coin, it fails. There is a wide range in the amount of footfall players get between those close to or owning a portal hub and those that do not have a build near a portal or settlement.
It is one thing for a player that gets 10K footfall a day to buy a tool for 30K and to be able participate in the economy through passive activity. Another player that gets only 500 or less coin per day in footfall can grind to try and sell to get the coin to buy expensive tools and maybe participate in the economy or simply make everything themselves. A player that gets passive footfall income, can get that income plus is still free to grind and craft and sell. This means they are competing with the player that has no passive income and has to grind, craft and sell to get any coin at all. Does this artificially keep the prices low for the items they both are making? Since the first player has other sources of income, do they care as much about the price for their goods? In any case, does this all create a situation where you have a large group of players with no significant passive income? Do these players then decide to either make everything themselves or participate through barter with friends and avoid the economy entirely.
I think the assumption that fixing the current footfall bug will cure the economy is not what will happen. Players have found that they can do it themselves at this point and right or wrong, feel that there is a group that has unlimited income they might not feel capable of competing with anyway.
every profession should be able to generate money, not just the ppl that just where the first nearby a new portal hub that dropped down plots next to them.
I disagree because I readily made tons of coin selling everything before footfall broke. I don’t mind selling to the rich if they’re paying well - which they were!
The economy worked before footfall broke. Sure, some people had more power than others but why would I expect to be top of the foodchain when I’m putting in casual levels of effort? I don’t understand all the pitchfork and torch marching on the portal hub owners. I portal hubs.
I am not faulting the hubs or the people that operating them. They need a way to run the hubs and footfall is really one of the only ways for them to do it. Of course, they could get footfall for every player that goes through a portal instead of crossing the beacon, but that is a discussion for another day.
My issue is you create such an imbalance that some players feel they cannot participate as they do not have 100k in coin every week to spend how they want. They do not necessarily want to grind and then search for a place to sell at a reasonable price to a request basket. I think the real danger at this point might be, we have shown players that they do not have to participate in the economy in order to play the game. They can make items themselves or work as a group to get what they want. I think unless you find a way for all players to gain some coin without requiring significant effort (like the passive income from footfall for some not all players), you are never going to get the level of participation in the economy that so many seem to want.
As someone who came into the game in September. With my daily 100 coin I am only able to travel once via Sanctuary. It costs me about 1000+ coin a day to travel around and do things and this is even with using the portal systems. The terrain on the planets are too annoying to travel around on foot so I do a mix of sanctuary to portal hubs that get me across the universe. After a day of playing I usually have no money to buy anything from any shops, too busy spending my money traveling to my own builds and projects. I guess when I’m completed my projects I can start to save but as it stands now no. I feel if they just changed the daily coin to 1000 things will be much more comfortable for the new players that start the game off with low funds.
Participating in the economy is relative. If you provide everyone with free money from playing the game, that amount quickly becomes worthless. Nothing has a set price, and as such, all high end items will fluctuate with the economy.
Herpes would be defects, quirks are more like mild asthma. Or far-sighredness.
To OP, If footfall meant that the rich would start shopping again, then i can get coin in to fund baskets, and lower players can come get some coin off starter world drops like milk and dirt and wood. To get rich they’ll need to farm a bit higher, but i value my time and pay accordingly. Baskets currently set below what i think stuff is worth because no sales mean low need for items…
This is a problem, this is in fact the core problem. Economies don’t grow from the top down. The whole thing has seized up exactly because the economy is built on unstable footing.
Unless we are talking about a Zimbabwe scenario (items cost 10,000c in the morning and 1,000,000 that night, repeat every day adding a few more 00s), this is a good thing (at least in the real world, it should be here, too). A small amount of inflation means that money gains velocity as people don’t want to sit on it and let it devalue. Money in the hands of more people gets spent, and the whole economy picks back up. If that means that the prices go up slightly month-over-month, so be it.
I don’t want an auction house, I like that the players have to innovate and solve the search problem themselves. The existing structure of our shopping hubs do not facilitate finding what you want, be it request basket or plinth. That’s not a flaw in the game, that’s a business opportunity for better shopping hub layouts. Compare the convenience of Code Gleam portal network to finding gleam via PS or Ultima. Innovate!
Even with that solved the economy won’t be fixed. New players have little way of getting income past the tutorial quests. Any farmed item is valued at the effort it takes to gather via 3x3 gem hammer as gems have demonstrated. You can now find gems for 100c-200c. Imagine getting a handful of them via silver/gold tier tools or even iron. You’d dig all day for a few thousand coins. New players are a magnitude less efficient at farming and can’t gather materials as their primary source of income. It’s always quicker for a high lvl character to switch to their power leveled alt who can mine ten thousand rocks in an hour. Wanting to keep 3x3 AoE and fix the economy are conflicting goals. Notice how oortstone has held its value this whole time since it’s the one thing you can’t instafarm with AoE.
The game needs daily/weekly coin drips that every player can earn on equal footing. The amount dripped won’t mean as much to veteran players but it gives new players a way into the economy.
I’m not talking about a small amount of inflation, but eitherway it makes no difference. People want the devs to “fix” an economy the devs have no part in. They don’t set prices. As long as the devs don’t change the coin sinks to make up for however many millions people want added a day through easy coin generation, more power to them. Doesn’t change the fact that most casual players will still not be able to afford anything that is high tier without farming for an hour or so after a few days.
I have gone back to not being part of the economy. Makes reading these posts more interesting when you have no skin in the game.
The problem is that most shopping hubs are portal based, and you have to be within interaction distance of the shopping stands to see what prices are (or interact with them if you are looking at forged gear). Better layouts aren’t going to solve those inefficiencies, and those are significant burdens to going on shopping trips. Additionally, this creates an extra barrier for sellers as they have to go confirm what they want to farm is selling, go get it, and then sell it, or they risk not being able to sell their day’s work. I have a longer post formulating that I may put up in the next few days about my overall thoughts on the economy, but I think if you added as auction house while also playing with the tax rate on the shop stands/buy baskets, you can have both side-by-side and both would add value to the economy.
But they do have a part, the devs “print the money” so to speak. Currently, their printing press is broken, but I (and others) are also pointing out that their method of getting the coin into the economy has been broken since day 1.
Yesss. Although, farming oort with a durable hard hitting shotgun does go significantly smoother than with dual wielding iron bows on a tier3…
I’d like to add surface resources to the “more stable” pile as you still pay for them in time… although the atlas has dropped their value considerably due to much easier farming of most. Seems what’s good for the individual isn’t always good for the economy
I think they will! These sell everything Walmart layouts are not as easy to shop in than the stores that focus on a few themed items with good signage. Here’s some innovative store layouts I’ve seen.
The stone shop where each plinth is surrounded by a shrine showing you all the decorative blocks using that color stone.
The forge stores where the signage organizes tools by what tier planet they are good for. Even stores that list the boons on a sign are providing convenience over inspecting the item.
An open market ran by a collective where one stall has food, another brews, another tools, etc. And one big area in the middle named coin converters with all the request baskets. This is basically a better Walmart layout as each department is clearly demarcated and cared for by an individual floor manager. The layouts cater to the item type rather than a global store aesthetic.
Food and drink stores which group items by effect and use signs to let you shop at a glance.
The innovation is happening at the shop level. What we’re still missing is a portal hub with high standards to curate these stores and efficiently direct us to them. Or even a settlement promising the same. It’ll happen. IMO the portal networks should focus on what they do best - connecting all the planets. And delegate the player portal curation to someone else who can spend 100% of their energy on it.
Because you don’t agree with the method doesn’t mean it is wrong. Once they fix footfall, there will be money pouring into the game again based on population not time spent. Which I find as a good system.
Any form of coin generation that is easily farmable is too much for this type of game. Especially if it comes in the form of mobs and broken blocks. It would just change it from effort and location to pure daily playtime to be on top.
portal hubs.