The problem of this suggestion is the extremity of wiping an entire universe, where some people have probably invested hundreds to thousands of dollars in plots for that specific build. While backers have spent just as much if not more, making the decision to back a game and the decision to buy plots in a live, persistent universe are two different things.
Now we’re talking about wiping a world where they have 1,000, 2,000, 5,000+ plots and expect them to just redo their build? All I see happening is people with thousands of plots claiming a whole world and then deciding I’m not about to go through this again and quitting. Or just using all their plots out of spite so no one else can build. Or are we going to reduce everyone’s total plots to 0 and refund them their money they spent on plots? Or are we going to restrict people from using as many plots as they want, basically making their plot purchases useless?
Typically I try to see both sides of any problem and find ways to contribute ideas/brainstorm, but my brain is telling me this particular idea is digging your own grave.
Let’s change the question/topic from wiping to “We’re introducing X number of new planets but we’re changing the way the game works. What do you all think should be added/removed?”
The current plot change is, currently, going to force malls/cities to rebuild or just deal with headache. That’s a forced wipe for specific communities.
I think that’s the frustration I have watching the game the last year. There have been a lot of changes that have forced small parts of the community to redo everything. The only difference in asking for a universe wipe is that everyone is equally impacted and not select communities. It’s like a thousand cuts death.
I’m not sure what the right answer is, I just know it’s very frustrating watching many people over the last year quit playing because changes impacted them but not everyone. Things are never an issue until they impact you specifically - that’s the way this game feels. None of these things bothered me but I have been able to see from the outside how it’s impacted each of these groups who have raised issue.
That is a different topic and people can start them for sure.
I don’t think anyone anywhere is saying that this is not a serious thing around exactly what you are talking about. If someone did, then I agree we need to work on getting them to understand that this is a serious thing.
But whether this is serious or not, the statements Havok made and my echoing of it is basically true. You see how people choose to respond and post memes, etc. This helps nothing in actually solving the design concerns.
People need to learn to understand why the person feels a wipe is needed from their viewpoint. Then influence them why it is not needed or finally see why it made sense. That is how I approached the topic with James and will continue to. We have a discussion on why I am very concerned of “staleness” in the Universe and no changes to things. As we dive deeper into my view of a “wipe” solving this, we ultimately come up with solutions on how to provide new content and game changes without a wipe.
But people are not helping to have that conversation even when it was asked by James directly. That just shows they are not capable of it and it needs to be moved away from them.
It is an attempt to solve a persistent problem that would require moderation/administration with an automated system. Ofc its not going well if you introduce this into a grown system. On a side note a wipe would actually be the logical solution if the system stays as it is…
I am not normal, And I am not like most other people, Therefore if you do indeed try to put me into the same boat as them as a way to try to understand me, that isn’t going to work very well in most cases.
This isn’t the first occurrence where that was most probably the case, which is where my entire reason for supporting one at any point comes from. It’s never been just one reason, it’s a plethora but then you have people saying those aren’t good enough reasons because they aren’t directly impacted therefor it must not be a real problem. That’s the real selfishness going on here. Anyone supporting a wipe would lose just as much as those not supporting one so I do not understand how that gets overlooked. That doesn’t mean your cubits go away. I’m sure that’s capable of being looked at and made whole. Other games have certainly done it.
I am fine either way and open to any discussions, but I do like building and am never satisfied with my creations. the quote is out of context though a wipe would be logical if the system with reservations as its impacting now would remain.
I’m sorry I wasn’t trying to put it out of context. I agree with you, if the system stays as is then it’s just another case for why a wipe is needed. If it’s rolled back and worked on further then it’s no longer the case.
Xaldafax, Venom’s idea of having a new ruleset on new worlds is a possible compromise solution…PLEASE (asking nicely) Stop Dismissing other people’s contribution to this topic as being “irrelevant” or “not part of this topic thread”… EVERYONE has a right to express their opinion and Unless You are a Dev or a Forum Moderator here Why do You Believe “You” get to “Decide” what can or cannot be added?
Honestly I was paying more intention to your original message than your second. Added to that I was rushing because I was worried the thread would get closed. This made me completely miss the quoted part of your message. I shouldn’t have rushed.
Now that I can see it, I do understand the context you were trying to convey. I apologize that I did take “nice” the wrong way.
Y’all need an organized cost/benefit analysis for this change since it’s so controversial. Just a recommendation. Making a google doc or something to at least track these points between inflammatory comments could help this discussion a lot. I’m lazy and biased so I won’t actually make it; but I feel like that’s what you’re all looking for.
edit: if this already exists, I’m sorry. Just point me to it lol.
It’s a different topic, but it ties into a wipe. You feel the game is stale and a wipe could add something new. New planets with new rulesets is an option. The problem with even mentioning a wipe is the negativity that comes with it. Topics mentioning wipe will always go down this rabbit hole. Change the question, change the feel of the conversation, get more meaningful feedback instead of the memes and people saying how bad a wipe would be.
I am not trying to dismiss anyone’s view in this topic unless we are working on gaining clarity on a specific part of it.
This topic is not like my settlement opt-in topic. In that one I dismiss stuff because I am focusing on a very specific need. In this topic we are in a “discovery” mode…
Honestly what I think would help the wipe conversation is if people took the topic more seriously themselves from the side of a wipe. I. know it might be hard but please trust me in this. I have good intentions. Let me explain it this way:
If James came onto the forum and announced that they had to wipe and there was no way to get around it, what must the community have in place to make sure it goes ok. Then just make your simple bullet list. Nothing is right or wrong. Just give a list.
I doubt (could be wrong) that anything on that list wouldn’t in the long run be good for the game and probably should be implemented anyway. Added to that, the list we gave would be good for James because if for whatever reasons they HAD to wipe at least him and the team knew what was needed to not ■■■■ everyone off.
You did that with Blueprints.
I’d expect those that want a wipe would then run that list against their concerns and either say a wipe isn’t needed anymore or get more clear on why the wipe is important… ultimately creating their own list finally that makes sense to everyone.
For me, having that list helps cover us from all sides and probably helps make it so a wipe is never needed.
I don’t get to decide. But if the community will not help me with discussing ideas I am interested in, I will take that to the people I know that will and ultimately the person that does discuss them - James. That is the only way to decide if the IDEA holds merit or not.
Out of everything Ive read so far Tagris hit the nail on the head. You can wipe but at the end of the day its the same game the EXACT same things will repeat. So sure for a short while all will be quiet because ppl will be rebuilding but as soon as thats done BAM same ole deal. So a wipe accomplishes nothing really.
I have one in my head but it is a good point. I never did one because I didn’t have a solid enough grasp on the specifics of “why it was really needed.” I was going more on gut and the feelings I was getting when I look at all the game play and how things are moving into production.
I work in IT as a Solutions Architect so I have to watch patterns and push myself out years in the future to try to catch problems. I have to learn to follow my gut and certain hints in things that I see… I saw stuff here in this game that concerned me.
I do think right now the cost/benefit is simple - It is not there. Too much risk.
