Thanks! If more people want them and there is a market for them I will do more.
I have a few left so I restocked if anyone wants them.
Thanks! If more people want them and there is a market for them I will do more.
I have a few left so I restocked if anyone wants them.
I forge this kind of tools, but so far for myself. I set request baskets in my shop to be able to forge more and if it goes well I will be able to make some for sale.
Yep, exactly this. Kinda a shame really since you would expect that cheaper tools would require less for instance, but it’s not the case. And since it’s easier/cheaper to craft a tool then it is to craft the forging mats AND the forging itself the biggest cost factor in forged items is the forging and not so much the base tool…
So if an un-forged gem tool costs 2000c, an un-forged iron tool costs 200c, the forged gem tool goes for 15000c then the forged iron tool kinda should go for 13200c
Then why buy the iron one?
What I, myself, tend to do when I sell non-gem forged items (which will be more of a thing when Original Foundries stall at New Leyden Market opens this month!) is just go with a much lower profit margin instead on iron/silver/titanium but that’s of course not the best thing to do when running a shop
Iron 3x3 tools should be around 4k while titanium are 5k, if you do handtrade 3k should be reasonable for iron one.
Edit: These price are based on 3x3 alone with random boon no dmg on them.
I don’t sell Iron one since titanium are better investment but do sell titanium for 5k at finata Pawn Shop.
I can see what most of you are saying about the 3x3 tools, and how it costs a bunch to make high tier tools, so it would cost a bunch to make iron 3x3s… however, I think we are all missing something here:
Iron tools will never reach T6, so there is no point sinking all those resources into trying to make a T6 iron tool.
With that point made, I think it is completely doable to make a T3 or so 3x3 iron tool, for a pretty reasonable price. Since you are going for a T3 hammer instead of a T6, and since it is an iron tool so it does not have to be perfect (some quirks or even defects are acceptable if they are not completely terrible), you will use less resources, thus making it cheaper.
I am not sure what you guys use to calculate the price of stuff, but what I do is calculate what all the material costs are, and then add some for my time. I dont charge for spark, because well… when you have millions, it really dont matter if you charge 1c for 5k… but you do you. Here is what I arrive at (these are rough prices, and correct me if im way off on some obviously):
Fresh Vital Essence
Ancient Vital Essence
Pure Boon Compound 3
Pure Boon Compound 1 (to fill the small gaps)
Unstable Boon Compound 3
Iron Heavy Hammer
Prices from above
Setting Resin: 5c
Special Gum: 17c
Effect Gum: 39c
Pure Boon Compound 1 (PBC1): 19c
Pure Boon Compound 3 (PBC3): 105c
Unstable Compound 3 (UC3): 110c
Iron Heavy Hammer: 47c
Now you can get a pretty okay tool with 3x3 using similar to the following method:
Now… this is not a perfect tool. This is what the OP asked for, a cheap iron 3x3 that will get the job done for a new toon, on a starter or T3 planet. If you add these average values up:
51c + 110c + 250c + 365c + 156c + 365c + 5c = 1302c
now add the price it actually takes to make the iron tool:
1302c + 47c = 1349c
add some tax for the fuel you used (could be spark, but mostly for furnace fuels):
1349 + 51c = 1400c
1400c is the ROUGH COST to make an acceptable 3x3 newbie tool that will absolutely 1 shot T2 rocks and 1-2 shot T3 blocks, which is acceptable, because they are doing single blocks currently anyways…
Now obviously, you have to count your time:
300c + 1400c = 1700c
…the fact that you spent other time to build up your forge and your character to get max benefits and
to max flexibility on items:
300c + 1700c = 2000c
…and any personal ‘because i want to gouge’ tax in the equation:
500c + 2000c = 2500c
And now you arrive at a price of 2.5k for an iron AOE tool that will get a newb started on a low tier planet, and even help a bit on a higher tier one (but not too high because well iron only gets you so far, especially with aoe). 2.5k fits nicely inside the window the OP mentions: “Many new/ish players can scrounge up 2-4k”. Coincidentally, it still turns you a pretty nice profit (2500c - 1400c = 1100c, 1100c / 1400c = 78% markup from cost!!!).
So, unless I am missing something glaringly obvious here (wrong prices that are drastically wrong, or some other reason it might cost more to make), I’m not sure this is a completely unreasonable request. Yes it is true that if you want a perfect T6 tool, with no quirks and no defects, it is going to cost you like 20-30k in mats. But a starter, newb friendly, T2-T3 iron aoe tool, with an acceptable amount of quirk or defect, is well inside the 2k to make mark, and can still pull in a nice profit of 78%, while fitting inside of the 2-4k boundary set by the OP.
In short, maybe we should all be making aoe iron tools, and selling them… seems reasonable to me.
I price the forged gear we sell based on the effect it has. We added not long ago forged gear to our shops and most of the enchanted iron/silver/ gold tools are around 999c and i still think its a high cost for the value you get (3x3 AoE is priced higher). If the demand for lower level tools is increasing i will expand the shop and try to add more lower gear. Let me know if you need something special and i will try to provide it in 24h. You can find our forge shop at the portal seekers in gloviathosa behind the rule sign (Liberation). Also feel free to give me your opinion about the shop.
Now if only the completed mats were that cheap. I might actually fool around with forging. I don’t bother with forging because I don’t feel like having “fails” and wasting all the mats and learning how to forge. Now if only I had chose to get the pc version of this game instead of the ps4.
Your calculations are mostly correct although your assuming you are getting lucky roll and AOE 3x3 with 6 compound and that definitely not doable without lucky rolls. To get AOE lvl 4 you will need at least 15 compound sometime even more if you’re not lucky. Also I’m not able to find anywhere selling wildstock eyes for 75c
3k handtrade is more reasonable and you don’t do much profit after coal cost (spark) due to tax it goes to around 4k on shopping stand.
I did one just to test with lucky roll used 10 compound:
I used the price of ingredient listed on the thread and total price for this abomination is 1383c without spark and iron tools at 50c.
To get at least even I need to put that abomination 1536c on stand (1383c with tax) that’s without any profit and buying mats at lowest price available around or farming everything myself which isn’t sustainable.
If we do the same without quirk and defect, we are almost doubling the investment, I’m not even sure if Iron tools one shot something anymore with 159dmg
Thank you so much for breaking it down!
That’s exactly what I was talking about. I think the majority have gotten into this mindset that a tool is not useful (to make) unless you make it 3x3 +durability +damage.
For a newer person, simply 3x3, T1-3 Iron hammer doesn’t have to cost 10k+.
And frankly, I’m not sure why more people don’t “market” to the person without all their coils and gems. I would think you’d sell more at a less than 4k price point than you would for 10k, 20k+ price point.
I sell titanium and gem simple forges, since tools with lower per hit damage than titanium require bonus dmg forging to make them decent aoe on low end. And diamond tools can 1shot t3 with no bonus dmg on a 3x3 aoe. Sell the titanium for 2200, and the diamond for 3250. There is a huge market for it, my shop get emptied daily. Also I sell regen bombs for 750 (though they currently get abused for resale) shop Is “the forge” in little Japan.
What everyone here says about forging lower tools with aoe is true. The cost of the tool matters very little in comparison to the forging cost, which is huge.
This is just a sincere thank you to everyone. I cant tell you how many times I’ve run around aimlessly looking for goods for hours and not finding exactly what I’m looking for anywhere. Now I have options, which is always nice.
Thank you guys for the PMs too. I’m sure I’ll hit all you guys up at some point!
This is actually the reason I set up my shop, was to make forged things for people, and price them under the market so that people had access to them. See Fairforge from Biitula PS.
It’s still pretty good forged stuff, since I don’t really consider it much of a cost to make a gem tool, just the forging mats. But you can get a 3x3 t6 diamond hammer for like 8k. Regen bombs are 2k, will probably drop them to 1k in the next few days. There’s topaz shovels for super fast orb or sand farming for like 6-7k I think, I can’t remember what I set them at.
But the prices don’t matter, I just set them so that people don’t sweep the shop every hour and resell elsewhere. If you contact me (Aorion on Discord) I will just straight up give you the thing for like 1-2k.
Otherwise the prices are within what you get from leveling from zero to whatever gives you enough skills to use the tool properly, so you can get that tool and then go get enough diamonds or whatever to make your coils.
I have an honest question: Would low level players use an iron AOE with only 159 damage? I am a miner, and I really struggle as this amount of damage would take forever to break blocks…
BUT, if that actually works and someone would buy a hammer like this for 2-3k, I will make some that are perhaps 500 damage + full aoe for about 3k (prob titanium)
Probably, but as a salesman in real life, my mind got to thinking, that if I was pushing a 159dmg tool, I’d also have to throw in a STR brew. I would not put that on a stand to sell. I’d have to hand trade it.
Edit: I’d have to tell them this is only a t1 hammer. If they want something viable on a t2 or t3, take a look at THIS over here. You know… work that sales magic.
Think about it though, for someone that would need that tool, and the str brew, you hook that person up and you might have a customer for life.
There’s a lot of factors I would take into account before trying to make coin by targeting new players with forge effects.
Necessity. T1-T3 worlds have lots of natural caverns and the resources can easily be found by scanning cliffsides and ravines as well as looking underwater. All of these are free ways to increase your “blocks seen per second” without needing AoE. IMO you really don’t need 3x3 until you’re carving thru solid rock looking for itty bitty gem seams.
Awareness. New players don’t know what they don’t know. How will they find your shop? How will they know that an item in your shop is meant for them? Your store’s marketing and layout are going to be as important as what you forge.
Affordability. The experienced players know that there’s very very few items that sell in this economy and new players either lack the know-how to get them or the character builds to get them effectively. As a result all new players trend toward poverty. So price is a very important “stat” on any forged item.
With that all said here’s some ideas on things I think could sell to new players. The common trend is maximizing necessity for cost.
New players don’t need to carve out huge tunnels to improve their “blocks seen per second”. They just need to tunnel from one cavern system to the next. 1x2 AOE is inexpensive to forge and lets them create character-sized tunnels, doubling their tunnel speed.
There’s always a calculation to be done on whether it’s more cost effective to buy 2 of a tool or 1 tool with double the durability. Since earlier tools have less durability, you can possibly flip this equation at low levels of the durability boon.
Gnash all the teeth you want, but topaz is as easy to gather as titanium and should cost as much. New players don’t have their skill points allocated to maximize damage so topaz and sapphire (from gem changer chisel) may give the extra oomph to 1-shot early planets with sub-optimal builds and not cost much more to make than alloy tools.
An upgrade to torches is a chisel/spanner with glow radius and auto harvest. Since they aren’t meant to be used they will last forever, so price is less of a concern since these aren’t consumable.
And finally everything you sell would have to be in a storefront that teaches new players why these items are better deals for them. They don’t know what they don’t know!
3 shops in gyosha mall have all eys for 75 or less
This is a great topic. I experimented with forging and made some forged iron items. It was very hit or miss, and I’ve used more deconstruction resin than setting.
I wondered if people would want to buy any, but could not find many examples for sale to get an idea of what prices to sell at.
I put a few up for sale in a small magic shop on the east side of the portal hub in aquatopia embassy, but not one has sold.
Using info from this topic I will recheck my prices tonight.
I recently made an iron aoe 3x3 iron hammer with about level 4 added damage, it is able to 1 shot rock on T2 and T1 planets and 2shot on T3. I find it great fun to use, but it took several retries to get both aoe and damage without better forge ingredients.
Also, there are only two things in the special category for tools: magnet and aeo. So rolling does not have to be lucky, if you use the three special gums like I point out. I can say with certainty that I have crafted roughly 200 tools with 3 special gums, and about 190 of them had aeo as one of the boons after only 1 UBC and 3 PBC max. It is not that far of a stretch, because of the gums.
Also the tool you made is not really worth anything. I can tell you used more than 1 UBC, because you have 2 level 3 defects, which take more points than 1 UBC3 produces. You have the 2 obvious ones, energy drain lvl 2 and durability reduction level 2. But you also have ADDITIONAL damage reduction. I know this because 700 * 60% is actually 420. You have 159. You obviously got an additional defect. 3 level 2+ defects is WAY more points than ONE UBC3 produces. That is like almost 1k defect points, and one UBC3 gives only 200.
Finally, even if you get both boons from special gums, using the effect gum for the third boon still has room for 1 of the 2 Effect boons: high crit damage and high regular damage. I dont see either on your forge.
There is one more thing though. You say you spent 10 compound, but you dont specify which. You have enough boon points here for maybe 3k points. With a bad spec, and no power on your forge, using 10 PBC3, you get a minimum of 4k boon points. My method says you can use PBC3 x 8 (3200), PBC1 x 8 (800) and UBC3 x 1 (1000), and still be below the 1k mark for compounds, while having enough points (5000 boon points on a base forge with a bad spec) to actually make a decent item. Your item has obvious signs of not following the method. So please actually do it before you try to debunk it.
159 damage is low. But if they had actually used the compounds they implied, it would have had room for a damage boost. The points dont add up for the levels of stuff on their gear. The only way I can make it work mathematically is to use 5 PBC3 and 5 PBC1, which wont get you there.
I used 3 gums and unstable boon compound 1 - 200% efficiency there only 2 defect the dmg reduction come from AOE and was not really trying to debunk your method. As i said you’re mostly on point on pricing. It was simply to try