Footfall Redux


#221

People won’t stop abusing it because it’s human nature. The mistake was putting in a reward system for the game that rewards people doing little. There is very little upkeep for footfall builds, once you build it, so long as you keep logging in and fueling portals, you get paid. This is backwards game design because rewards should come from actively playing.

You might not have been here when the game launched, but we used to get XP from any action we took outside of a beacon, and the result was people running everywhere chiseling the ground. It was the ugliest sight you’d ever seen.

A game cannot be “Boundless” because people are always going to abuse mechanics.


#222

I am not sure how it sounded like that but you are welcome to quote the area you feel did and I can clarify.

If it was in relation to the comment about the community being a problem over the game and developers. That is opinion and even though I could probably find a variety of ways to prove my point, I don’t think I need to after some of the recent threads. I just feel that while we push the developers to make the game better, I think the community itself needs to do some work on itself to improve things as well with how they choose to play the game.

I’m not opposed to how people play the game currently whether it is in a more original intended way or if it is fully creative with slides, co-ops, etc… I feel people make the choices themselves on how they want to play it – that is their right. I certainly fault no one for making the choice on how they chose to play the game based on what they value and what they want to get out of it. From a sandbox perspective I enjoy seeing how people will push hard to eek out every coin they can. It shows creativity and invention… I do like that.

I also feel, though, that I can continue to strive for a system to be put in place that I feel is more conducive to game play and allows people more freedoms while limiting some choices that can be made by people that would affect the game a certain way. Maybe said in a different way - give the game a system but if the system ends up causing a response that isn’t conducive to growth then change the system.

So I am for things and against things based not the context and perspective of the discussion.

I gave the definition of the footfall exploit - so anything that pushes the envelop in that way is one. A normal mall that has an infrastructure and shop probably didn’t fit in the definition I gave because it doesn’t have the additional requirements I listed.

I don’t see what guild I am has any bearing on the points I make. My guild does not use many buffs and most votes I say to save our money because I feel the benefit from the buff does not outweigh the cost or the amount of people that would actually USE the buff.

That was the crux of my comment - is what you are paying for really being used 100% and are you achieving it in a way that is within integrity of the original game mechanics.

Additionally, nothing I shared had to do with “haves” and “have nots.” I was trying to explain that there is a perception in the game from many in the community that because something is available they must get it and that requires them to do whatever is needed to achieve it especially if others are willing to do it or others have it.

I feel people should evaluate the need for something a bit more before just buying it.


#223

Not to derail this, because it deserves its own thread, but a few people mentioned the problem of rewarding people for being in Guilds before. If devs put something in a game, people are going to expect to be able to attain it, unless there are hard limits. Boundless has a lot of solo players, and such, putting in buffs that only large groups can access is a huge source of conflict.

IMO, the only thing Guilds and such should do, is be convenient, and large groups of people should only have access to quicker material gain, instead of character buffs.

People don’t change much, so it’s up to the devs to stop enabling features in the game that promote behaviour they don’t like unfortunately.


#224

As you previously said humans are humans and some will abuse a mechanic and if that continues the devs will likely take a larger action that is perceived negative.

With that in mind, so there isn’t another thread derail, I’ve started a new one specifically focused on what James states is the intended daily coin tap. If anyone has any ideas to address this so that footfall doesn’t take all the blame I welcome your conversation and ideas:


#225

I say leave the footfall system as it is. If you want to make things better add something to the game that allows people to make coins and not just feeding the machine with materials either. Not everyone can afford to throw their materials in the machine for a few coins. A lot of us just like to build stuff so the football money that we get helps us with the materials to do just that. I farm a lot of my stuff but sometimes it’s nice to have a few coins to cut down some of that farming since that’s taking me away from what I like to do which is to build. As far as the slides the co-op’s and all that stuff I don’t consider those exploits. The people found ways to maximize their coin generation that is not an exploit since it is within the rules of the game. I understand some of you don’t like it but these creative ideas at the community has come up with are working within the existing system in the game. So I say drop it as far as bringing up those things as being somehow bad because they’re not. If you want to help things out find a way that we can make more coins easier then using the co-op’s to slides excetera and then they will probably tend to go away.


#226

Everyone can attain it. The question is how. Many choose to use footfall to generate coin instead of larger groups of guild members and commerce solutions.

Also not all are asking IF they should obtain it.

Additionally, as I posted on another thread - I did talk today about alternate ways to fund Guild buffs. Interest is there but much more discussion and design would need to happen before any viability of the model could be proved as “better” than coin.


#227

Ah, I see. I was under the impression that getting multiple Level 3 Guild Buffs were simply too expensive for a solo player or small group to achieve.

And I understand people’s expectations are out of whack, but people rarely ever change their expectations. I think it’s up to the developers to set hard limits in the game, like how people are only given certain amounts of skill points, otherwise people are going to see an expensive item/feature, and wonder why it was put in the game if only a few people can use it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.


#228

I understand your point, but the same argument was made that Bomb Mining, chiseling the ground for xp, and crafting rock for xp was within the rules of the game. I do believe that the developers had different expectations on how footfall would be generated in game. They have already changed it once and I think they are likely to change it again. It would be helpful to understand what their expectations for footfall were. It might make it easier for us to make suggestions that might accomplish their goal without creating to much player dissatisfaction.


#229

Yes that is the point overall - expectations.

People feel they deserve the level 3 buff instead of whether they really need it and will use 100% of it for the cost required. Instead they just want it and will do what is needed to get it. — All of this is said in a VERY general nature.

It will be VERY interesting after Farming is released how people try to maximize and optimize the systems they put in place around colors and crop yields… I’m very curious on how people choose to play the game based on what the actual underlying system that the developers put in place. Will people try to game it to make it easier or will they just do the work required to achieve the result as it was intended.


#230

So long as there are hard limits, and you won’t be spending coin to augment farming equipment, I suspect people won’t try to game it as much.

But if they add a Farming Helix Guild Buff… hooooboooy lol. That’s going to drive even more frustration.


#231

DARN I forgot to ask about that… Are we on Santa’s naughty or nice list…


#232

The devs have very plainly stated their intentions of footfall though, to reward builders a small amount of coin to reward attracting people to come . Not this insane monster mechanic has become . I feel like we know where the devs stand and what they intended, they just don’t know how to address the way the system is now used as it is so entwined with every other thing in the game. It really is quite like a cancer in the way in which it has manifested and spread, not that it’s anywhere near the seriousness of cancer. This is entertainment after all.


#233

Lol. Full disclosure, I’m a fan of moving Guild Buffs into a Level 50+ tier of special skill augments you earn after max level and allowing Guilds to be simply what they are, a place for people to congregate.

But it’s okay, it’s not like they put in achievements for the PS4 that rewarded people for getting footfall… oh wait. lol


#234

Did someone say Naughty? :nerd_face::+1:


#235

Your scan request stays on until you turn it off. It’s a signal for scanners to go there. If you check the shop page in question, are your prices in?


#236

I could be wrong on how it works for sure. I though that if it said the request was active it meant it hasn’t been scanned… but then when it was scanned request active (in green) would go away. If so, I apologize and thank you for correcting me.


#237

This is not true at all. A lot of people in the mall have worked really hard to give their shops an inviting, aesthetic appeal. Most of the merchants would prefer that they earn coin from selling the goods that they have crafted (at least, that’s what they tell me).

As I’ve said before, I make more money from taking down a single T1 meteor on a T3 planet than I do from the mall. The mall was created to help people come together & buy/sell items - that is all. If anyone earns ff, it’s a small added bonus. Yes, I could re-beacon & re-plot the mall for a 3rd time, in order to rake in more ff, but I don’t really care about that. I like seeing people enjoy themselves & have fun - myself included.

Very true. Respect.


#238

If the function of footfall is to reward players building pretty/useful places, having an upkeep to be rewarded sounds weird.

When building, the cost is frontloaded in the actual build materials and time. That’s the investment that enables income. Adding an upkeep is just a bill you have to pay to keep it going. That bill could be paid automatically from the footfall income by lowering the base footfall. If the point is to make people work for their income, they already worked to build the place. An additional chore on top of that doesn’t sound fair.

I do see the (trigger warning) exploit, I just don’t think the wear idea is a good solution to it. Even scaling footfall by the time spent on the plot sounds better to me and would make it harder to exploit. Mind you, it would still be gamed, everything will.


#239

As did the people who built the slides and co-ops. Speaking for myself, the design and materials was importantly me. Also, the people who have plots in our co-op, for the most part, took a lot of time and effort when decorating their space for the same reason.

Maybe, but at the same time, the co-ops are not traps. No one forces anyone to go there. Those who go have reason to go. No one is forced to enter or participate. No trap.


#240

And if you’ll look back at all of my comments, I’ve defended the co-ops, slides, etc (including your’s)…every single time. I have not once put down any one else’s build. I do not agree with calling anything a trap or any build ugly because that’s purely subjective.

This is a sandbox & the devs want to see what will happen with the things they add to the game. Sometimes, I guess they aren’t going to like what people do and they’ll tweak it…eventually.