Forging Balance Changes on Testing

[Prome3us]

another thing to consider - for example carpe noctem/diem quirks…
It’s quite common for hunters to carry 2 complimentary slings, and this works really well especially in mixed elemental waves. Similarly, if forging moves to live in the current state it’s in on testing, there would be great advantage in taking tools with quirks that have complimentary pairs.

Use your day hammer until the sun sets, then simply roll one over to your night slugger.
Your miner has 10 thumbs and seems a bit clunky hitting every branch on the way down? a single “low health” tool might be a useful spare tyre to use until those prime steaks kick in.

I Love how many more options we now have - I am quite interested to find out from people who don’t like the testing situation what exactly they find to be “a nerf” from the proposed changes?

I’m not fully on board with the 200% efficiency across the board, I think it’s awesome for low end tools (effectively makes your compounds cheaper / stronger) but I feel that high end tools need to have at least a reason to consider any of the 1k boon compounds without wasting such a significant portion of it.

[Trundamere]

@Prome3us

I’m not fully on board with the 200% efficiency across the board,

I don’t think it is. Try putting a topaz hammer in, that is 165% inless i failed to do something obvious.

[SerenityLove]

There are caps and 200 is the high cap for titanium and everything below but diamond/emerald is 181 and the others are lower so no you aren’t doing anything wrong… that or I’m doing something wrong

[Trundamere]

@SerenityLove

200 is the high cap for titanium and everything below but diamond/emerald is 181 and the others are lower so no you aren’t doing anything wrong… that or I’m doing something wrong

and this part is a little confusing

[Tifa]

Thank you for testing it and letting me know. I really appreciate that and you informing people vs talking down to others for their concerns and opinions. I still think it’s ridiculous though that your health or food level would have anything to do with your weapon effectiveness.

[bculverhouse]

I’m getting 200% effectiveness with diamond hammers with 7200 power and max Int. Haven’t really tried many other tools, just been fiddling around with ingredients to see what kind of boons/quirks I can get. And so far I’ve been consistently making AoE T6 one-hitters with extra durability with no quirks or quirks that are actually a benefit. My deck is Longevity Gum, Effect Gum, Special Gum, Stabilisation Paste 2 (Protection Paste 2 works here as well), Fate Paste 2, Draining Boon Compound 1 (NOT 2, unless you’re specifically trying to get quirks), Vigour Catalyst 2, Boon Transmute Solvent, Quirk Transmute Solvent, and Setting Resin. If you are familiar with the mechanics, you can use those ingredients to get some pretty sweet tools. I love the new quirk system, it makes great tools even more awesome if you can manipulate the quirks into getting what you want. Sure, I occasionally get unlucky and get a quirk that isn’t all that great (the ravenous and low health ones in particular), but that’s standard process for forging now anyways. Occasionally, your rolls aren’t going to be that great and you’re going to end up with a subpar outcome. That’s just the inherent RNG of the system.

[bculverhouse]

I was just getting ready to type this…

[Prome3us]

yeah I stand corrected, I didnt mean EVERYTHING but that is what i wrote hehe. Hyperbole abounds!

I mean, if gems could be boosted to around 120-130%, with the idea that you’d need a maxed setup to reach full efficiency (100%) on future items like blink rift and dark, then I’d be cool with it…

At the moment, getting 200% on *most items and 165% on topaz is basically equivalent to changing that wood through to diamond all still get 100% but the balanced / fast gems go down to 90% and 80%…

I just think that slightly misses the point of promoting earlier forging / low tool forging, as there is still no measureable difference between forging say a stone hammer and a titanium one. I suppose the balance is not directed at max setups - so a character with lesser stats and an unpowered forge will likely see a much larger difference between tool types.

Thanx, had to type a bit for the brain to get through that one

[Trundamere]

@bculverhouse

My deck is Longevity Gum, Effect Gum, Special Gum, Stabilisation Paste 2 (Protection Paste 2 works here as well), Fate Paste 2, Draining Boon Compound 1 (NOT 2, unless you’re specifically trying to get quirks), Vigour Catalyst 2, Boon Transmute Solvent, Quirk Transmute Solvent, and Setting Resin

Thank you for sharing. I will be seeing what I can do with that setup. However on a practical level I would need to see if I can find a way to do it with out the boon transmute.

[bculverhouse]

Yeah the Transmutes are expensive. They are crucial to removing most of the elements of RNG, however. If you’re just shooting randomly, they aren’t necessary, but if you’re going for specific enhancements, then they are.

[SerenityLove]

thank you kindly

[SerenityLove]

So basically I got perfect tools… with less efficiency than everyone else. This is good news to me as this means it will be easier XD

[Trundamere]

@SerenityLove

with less efficiency than everyone else

Either something is bugged, or maybe one of your coils did not connect correctly to the forge.

can you look to see if the forge states you have 7200 units of power?

[SerenityLove]

No no I figured there was a hard cap on 15 so I know where my issue lies

[Tifa]

Um excuse me but who exactly gave me that info but Crete? No one. And how exactly am I wrong? Because it doesnt nerf you until 55%? That doesnt make me wrong and doesnt change my opinion. I also never said any of you were wrong for your opinions. I said I didnt agree but you obviously love to attack people so what can you do? Crete gave me a rough percentage where you did what exactly but complain about my opinion? Nothing. You bring up portals like it has anything to do with what I was talking about and believe this game should be nerf bombed as you put it. Where I believe more content and options should be added not butchered and given more useless items in game. So no I dont think you or the other guy were helpful at all. Just condescending and rude trying to force me to see your way and I dont that’s the bottom line. So deal with it and have a great day

[MinerDiggerMan]

Below are quotes of people who politely explained to you, in detail, why you were wrong for a number of reasons, and below them is a list of several comments you made that showed entitlement, anger, passive-aggressiveness, and hyperbole.

@bculverhouse

I don’t think this is a nerf at all. And i’m almost certain now that you haven’t actually done much research into this. There’s a quirk that gives extra action speed if you have full hunger. When do you want to have full hunger? When you’re mining. There’s a quirk that gives less enegry drain when you’re full health? When are you full health? When you’re mining. There’s a quirk that gives extra max energy but drains your hunger faster? When are you gonna stay full hunger as often as possible? When you’re mining. None of this is a nerf. I used Draining Boon Compound 1 instead of 2, and some Protection Paste, Fate Paste, and Vigour Catalyst and got the same exact results I’ve been getting. And the quirks hardly come into play anyways if you’re using your Fate Paste, as they’ll tend to roll lower on those anyways. Go test these things out and then get back to me.

@LennonMarx

And you consider nerfs to be the answer?

If need-be. In most games I am a fan of bringing up what is under powered instead of nerfing what is OP, but as it stands these hammers are just out of line. Like I said, in 15 hours I have gotten more stuff than my previous 250 hours. That means that the current end game tools are something like 16-17 times more efficient than the gear that comes before it. That seems out of line with game progression to me, and badly so.

Let me ask you this. You obviously don’t like nerfs. What would you suggest they do to balance the game that allows them to keep the current “meta” forging exactly as is?

@MinerDiggerMan

In the long-term, powercreep is devastating to games, yes.

Boundless doesn’t have enough players right now, so to continue development they can’t rely on the few people like you or me, people who have already bought in, they need to rely on future purchases.

Catering to the needs of a playerbase this small would only cause them to lose money, and that results in both you and I not seeing any future content down the road.

The fact is, the launched the game too early, they know it, we know it, they clearly didn’t have a choice in the matter, and they didn’t remove the OP tools fast enough, so people like you are now outraged because you have expectations based around game-balance that was never intended to exist.

They screwed up. You have toys right now you were never supposed to have.

@LennonMarx

I disagree that it’s hard, it seems to be the easiest thing in the world at the moment, and that’s a problem. Last night, I finally was able to get enough hopper cores and wildstock horns to do the “meta” forging method. I watched Merlin’s tutorial a few times to make sure I had the steps down, and in 7 attempts I made 2 “perfect” hammers, 3 hammers that 1shot 3x3 T6 if I have a strength brew up, and 2 aborted attempts where I had to remove some boons and set the item to get my hammer back. I have only done some minor playing around with the forge before this and I was able to get great results. That isn’t hard. To go along with this, in the past ~15 hours since my first hammer finished, I have collected more resources than I have in my past 2 months playing this game (I started about a week after launch). That seems off whack to me. If this is the mid-game content, what can the devs possibly do to improve upon this? Craftable Deathstars?

@bculverhouse

Have you actually tried the new system in testing? It’s actually still pretty simple to make high-end forged items. And with the new quirks, if you get decent rolls, you can actually forge even better gear. A T6 one-hitter with a quirk that increases action speed or decreases energy drain or even increases max energy? I’ve already forged tons of them on the testing server, and it wasn’t really all that complicated, once you find the right combination of forge ingredients.

@schasm

Like I say I think once you see it you will worry less. You can still get good stuff and it’s been boosted in other areas. You don’t have to have quirks and some of them are a net positive anyway. Fully-Filled for example is a good thing if you’re the kind of miner who eats food to keep the stamina bar high. Similarly, my miner is extremely rarely low on health whilst mining so if I got Best Of Health quirk on a hammer I’d be very happy.

I think price will go up on 3x3 high DD hammers for a while but they’ll still be doable. I’m going to have another try with some different options (thanks @Prome3us!) and see what I can get with high end ingredients and different combos.

@Prome3us

Use your day hammer until the sun sets, then simply roll one over to your night slugger.
Your miner has 10 thumbs and seems a bit clunky hitting every branch on the way down? a single “low health” tool might be a useful spare tyre to use until those prime steaks kick in.

I Love how many more options we now have - I am quite interested to find out from people who don’t like the testing situation what exactly they find to be “a nerf” from the proposed changes?

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@Tifa

Just giving us more useless ■■■■ and constantly nerfed weapons over some stupid idea that no one should be endgame until the rest of their content is out like dark matter etc is released which is a long way off and they already cant keep their player base because the nerf hammer doesnt stop swinging and theres frankly not enough content for them to keep removing. So once again no but thank you anyway

@Tifa

was basically for nothing

@Tifa

struggle for however many years it’s going to take them to give that content for an endgame?

@Tifa

Power creep at this point is bs.

@Tifa

we deserve to stay their

@Tifa

To have that ripped away is bs

@Tifa

Not the constant removal of useful things huh?

@Tifa

So just screw us then right?

@Tifa

without ■■■■ quirks or defects on them reliably?

@Tifa

Sure whatever you say

@Tifa

So grow up maybe before being an ass

The worst part of all this is that you have some valid concerns, and I actually agree with some of them. For me personally, I don’t like RNG in my games, and so the Forge is a major turn-off for me, and negative quirks were especially troublesome, but as we’ve explained, they aren’t nearly as negative now.

The problem is, a constructive discussion with someone who flings around swear words and hyperbole is impossible.

[Stretchious]

My suggestion to the people intent on turning this thread into a flame war… take a break from the forums for a while, otherwise I’ll be forced to put it on time out.

[Trundamere]

@Stretchious

My suggestion to the people intent on turning this thread into a flame war… take a break from the forums for a while, otherwise I’ll be forced to put it on time out.

I hope you can put the players causing the problem on time out and not the whole thread.

Its a jolly shame for a few bad eggs to suppress everyone elses ability to post here because they forgot to take their joy.

[SerenityLove]

1v1 me bruh
Though I do still say that this whole forging decision was a good choice. I don’t bother scrolling up most of the time on the forums as it always gets too many… heated moments or someone says something a tad excessive

[SerenityLove]

I won’t lie that I was the reason for a few heated moments sorry for those outbursts.
But for the topic on hand, adding quirks to not be awful was an excellent step in the right direction
Thank you boundless team for reading the things your community suggests and trying to make the best out of it