speaking of forge not being with you.
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I use boon removal or change too. Its nice
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This kind of kind of bad forging rng has became my normal lately. Makes me feel like something is broken and I just donāt know enough to catch it and report it. The couple of times I got the boons I wanted I got nasty defects. That gear durability one is awful. I actual made a couple of fists with it on it once cause I desperate for weapons. I didnāt realize how much it was taking off or I would have deconād them.
Food helped a little. was past my dinner time by a bit. Still not sure I am ready to go tackle that forge again. I need fists so I can play on my hunter. Will have to make the solvent 1.
This website is made by @Mayumichi and is great to use to test forging methods. Give it a shot and see if that helps.
https://boundless.mayumi.fi/forgeSimulator/
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Thanks. It does help. I do see you have to be careful to watch for it doing thing that wouldnāt actual work in game, like it letting you use vigour cat when you donāt have enough points. But it is still very good tool to try and test stuff.
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Just make sure you edit the effectiveness when trying to forge a gem or lucent gear but since said you were trying to forge a fist weapon you should be fine with the default. Good Luck! 
Well I just had a go with boon removalā¦
Special gums onā¦ first boon - devastating damageā¦ ok niceā¦ second boon - busy beeā¦ ok also nice, but also a bit troubling. Third boon - Magnetā¦ ok now thatās more like the RNG Iām used to. Time to use the boon removal 1!!! I end up on 150 vigour and Iāve still got magnet, it changed to liquid breaker once and back to magnet like 200 times or whatever it wasā¦ so now Iām setting a hammer with busy bee level 2 and damage level 4ā¦
OK second try because that truly was horrible RNG and I canāt give up after just 1 try. Ok 7 boon removals to get magnet 6 more times and then AOE finally. Next I get crit damage of courseā¦ 4 boon removals later and Iāve had crit damage again 3 times and finally damage on the 4th. Now have 700 vigour left and I still donāt have my 3rd boon, lol.
Anyway I made do with what I had and ended up getting AOE 4, Damage 8 and Durability 6ā¦ all in thatās acceptableā¦ but RNG being RNG again I also picked up a lvl 2 action speed defect along the way even though I had my fate paste on. So my acceptable Diamond T6 dura hammer has 7 action speed nowā¦ lol
I understand this was 2 examples of very very bad luckā¦ but I donāt have to deal with this bad luck when I can just deconstruct and I also have ample vigour to spare to use a defect reversal catalyst so if I choose to I can forge completely quirk and defect free, I only quirk because I like them.
So I decided to have 1 go at my quirk free/deconstruction resin method just to prove a point and here is the result:
So this forge actually didnāt go well at allā¦ I accidentally wasted 200 vigour by using vigour catalyst twice in a row by misclicking and more than once the boon bar slider hit very near the bottom and applied nearly 0 boon pointsā¦ and yet I still maxed the busy bee.
Yes I had to deconstruct 5 times to get my 3 boonsā¦ but that was decided within the first 4 rounds of the forge so it only took 2 minutes to set the 3 boons I was targeting and next to no ingredients were lost in the process. Oh and I also had the confidence to forge 5 hammers at a time because of the safety assured by Decon resin.
So Iām sorryā¦ but I just donāt think Iām going to convert to boon removal solvent based on these results. Deconstruction resin is just too strong and it guarantees me results.
EDIT: And a list of the ingredients used to forge these 5 hammersā¦
85x Corrupting boon compound 1
15x Defect Reversal catalyst
60x Gums
20x Protection Paste 2
15x Fate Paste 2
30x Vigor Catalyst 2
25x Deconstruction Resin 3
5x Setting resin
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Yeah, for some of my setups I have space for boon removal and decon, but I prefer using boon removal only if I get something that was completely untargeted like liquid breaker when aiming for a mining hammerā¦ Seem to have better luck going from way out to what I want than switching between boons in the same category.
Some items I aim for quirks, some I prefer cleanā¦
As for the measuring contest, hereās my submissions, a daytime T8 and "the longer lasting daytime fast firing permacrit fist of unexpected discharges 
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Did you try using a vigor catalyst and then a gum of the boon you wanted, then doing the boon removal or change? It should then change it to a boon under that new gum.
I was having a similar issue, but noticed it kept applying a new boon that was for a gum I had applied, but it was actually a different gum I needed.
So after i deconstructed and tried again, i got the bad boon i didnāt want, used vigor catalyst, then applied a special gum, and got what I wanted when I tried the boon removal.
If you have a gum applied for a different type, I dont believe it will let you apply a different type of boon under a different catagory.
Or at least that is what I experienced. After learning this boon removal has worked perfectly for me.
I also used it for each one I didnāt want. So like I rolled a dmg boon, which was good, but then glow. And I didnāt want glow, so I used vigor catalyst, then applied one of the correct gums, then the boon removal, and got AOE.
Then I got magnet, but I wanted dur. So I used vigor catalyst, and used a gum I wanted, then got dur.
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Haha, I love it!! Iāve left wonky trigger on a few slingbows before just for the extra 200 durabilityā¦ but itās a little bit terrifying to carry around a T7 exo though when it always seems to randomly discharge to close to every Elite Wildstock you pass by just to give you something to panic about, haha. I most certainly would not leave it on an AOE hammer or damage bombsā¦ just in case I leave it equipped while I go AFK in base!
Yep absolutely I did, I have experimented around with most forging ingredients to figure out all the inās and outs of how the work and I used to use the boon removal as a way to ādeconstructā back before deconstruct resins were buffed to the way they are now. So yes Iām aware that removal 1 only returns 50% of boon points and will be affected by any gums applied. As you will have noticed 90% of the time I rerolled the exact same boon as I had removedā¦ magnet, and yes I watched it disappear from the stack of boons and then reappear again.
Now look I am well aware I am basing my judgement on 2 forges alone which absolutely isnāt fair at all, but I think I will stick to what I am comfortable with, ie. deconstructing. I donāt dispute that both methods can get great results.
I think though we are all guilty, me included, of presenting our forging methods based on our best successes and the forges where everything goes well. Iām more interested in the times that it goes horribly wrong and how often that is and how we deal with it. I mean I was very pleased to actually get a T6 damage hammer with 1200 dura when I only had 700 vigor to work with so I see what Aenaea is saying about it being a satisfying method when you get those results.
So how about some more lighter-hearted stories from people (like @Prome3us has done above),
How many people have accidentally deconstructed a perfectly good bunch of forged items instead of setting them? Or the opposite, how many of you have accidentally Setting Resined 5 lvl 1 glow, diamond shovels instead of deconstructing. Who has accidentally broke perfectly good forged items by running out of vigor due to not paying enough attention to what they are doing??
Meā¦ several times to all of the above, haha
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Did you change gums? Did you clear the buffs by using vigour catalyst after getting the first boon or did you keep rolling the two specials on? Or did you just add more gums?
Because what you describe happened twice is something that sure can happen but not twice in a rowā¦
This is the worst! Almost feels like youāre in the clear and then bam 
Ive been experimenting with swapping decon for boon remove 1 and i must say iām getting really good results 
hit and miss still but havenāt had an unsaleable item yet. Think ill be using both methods from now on depending on my mood lol!
Yep I did all of that. I do understand how the boon removal works, and I realise just how unlikely that string of bad luck is, I really do. Equally with the decon way you can have a string of bad luck and get magnet/torch 25 times in a row too.
So I feel both methods rely equally on the good/bad luck you get but I get the comfort of knowing I have my āget out of jail free cardā in the end and I get to forge with all my vigor going towards leveling boons rather than changing them.
Both methods work and have their place in my opinion, but it is just not for me Iāve decided. Iām glad I gave it a go though.
I never said you didnāt know but since what you described either was missing a few steps (vigour cata, new gums) or you kept going without that, nothing to do with the solvent.
Letās agree to disagree since Iāve tried many a time with decon resin and due to having to start over the amount of luck needed is much higher.
Say I have 2 of the boons I want with decon resin method, the 3rd doesnāt go as I like it, I then have to restart over from scratch. With boon removal all I need to do is try to remove the last wrong boon and can keep the other two.
Well if you like it and works for you then you should just keep doing it, for me it does not work since the amount of luck needed is much higher which means the amount of possible frustration is too 
When forging I currently use a deck with both decon resin 3 and boon removal 1 Iām it. I find that of the two the boom removal gives me far more crappy results when used often than the decon resin does. Of course there are times when I remove a boon and immediately get the one I want, those are pretty rare in my experience but glorious when they happen. The most often scenario is boon removal several times burning through vigor and after 4 uses I usually have the boon I want and have to play a bit of a catch up game, which honestly can be exciting. My luck with boon transmute is much better. But out of principle I stay away from any forge ingredients that use feathers. (the item is infuriatingly rare and therefore brutally expensive so I want no part of it)
I have to agree with @wakeNbake though that relying on the decon resin more often than not (probably 70% of the time) leads to more successful and less frustrating forges for me. But thatās the beast of RNG, it is calculated on a population for total percentage so each individual can have wildly different experiences with the system. If something works 50% of the time it could work 100% for one player and 0% for another. That is 50% and working as intendedā¦
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I think you and i are making the same point, which is that both of their views have merits hehe. We fence sitters that use both decon and boon removal; what do we drop from our stacks that these two āpureā removal or decon forgers have?
I like to pretend that my input stack is a closely guarded secret, which would have merits if i were in any way close to as good a forger as them (which Iām not lol) but i still seem to get gudenufā¢ resultsā¦
Because of my lacking in greatness i usually only target two boons, where decon is gudenuf to get what i want often enough to not drive me mad. If i do go for 3 though i more often than not use boon removal, which doesnt always go well but still good enough.
I prefer this thread of āwhich way is betterā having two (or more) answers rather than having a āperfect forge walkthroughā; i think the variability in approaches giving similar results to different people is a sign that forging is doing better overall 
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After some long winded discussions in PM I think we have come to the conclusion that we have both honed/fine-tuned our methods and the order of ingredients used to minimize RNG hell and get good results more often than bad ones. So yes I believe you are correct and both methods are equally strongā¦ but they require a lot of time at the forge to learn/make all the right decisions for the countless possible circumstances at each stepā¦ and still from time to time both can suffer from plain old bad luck.
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Yea thatās what I was saying earlier. Thereās a lot of ways to approach forging. At the end of the day itās RNG so favorable rolls will give the same results as 3 different methods. Itās just a matter of how comfortable each individual is with their rotation.
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Of course I do know for myself there is also a silly psychological component, if I have to restart from scratch it feels worse to me then if I can continue onā¦
Someone should do the numbers I suppose, but still have the feeling that, especially once you hit the 3rd boon stage, that deconing needs more luck, since with the 3rd boon you need to re-roll all 3 again while at that point with a solvent you only need to re-roll the 3rd boonā¦
But it is indeed of course very dependent on what you feel comfy with. Honestly I too would like to be able to add another slot in my deck for decon 3, haha.
And this whole discussion did make me think of an alternative way, I could do the ācancel queueā thing on the first 2 boons, or at least I think Iām going to do so on the first boon from now on. If itās not the right boon, set it, cancel it, try again and only from the 2nd on I use a solventā¦
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