Ideas about tree mechanics and general suggestions/ideas

You will be surprised, I guarantee! :wink: Trees is not only for building its fule for furnaces and spark source. No one will go mining coal or peat if he can go dig four blocks and get whole tree with 300 blocks in.

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No, I really wouldn’t be surprised.

Wood is horrid, horrid fuel for furnaces and spark. It takes about 12 pieces to be equivalent to one piece of soft coal, hence coal mining is much, much more efficient, especially since you can use stone hammers. Also the OP specifically said trees beyond a certain size should not be harvestable this way, and we both know you’re talking about literally the largest trees in the game when you say 300 blocks.

In addition TO THAT you wouldn’t even be able to harvest even the medium trees without fancy silver/gold/titanium/gem axes (depending) and it wouldn’t be a quick 3-4 chops per block. REALLY, you should go back and re-read the op, since literally 75% of your objections are already countered there, I can clearly see that you didn’t read it entirely before responding, which is both a discourteous and dishonest thing to do.

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nope, i read whole post.
When I said 300 I was exaggerateing, you had to understand this, and exaggeration here just for contrast. But this does not cancel what I said above.
Here is the topic about fuel …a-coal-miners-guide-spark-and-furnace-values-included…
Soft Coal - 0,55/cycle
Wood Trunk/Timber - 0,2/cycle
And dont forget that for 36 trunk you get 50 timber in mass crafting

and for what you need to easily cut tiny trees? if its not hard to cut it one by one block

P.S. when i started, i used tonns of wood, thousands of tonns

I think with the upcoming beacon fuel changes, where leaves are used as the early-game fuel source, being able to cut down entire trees, by simply cutting out 1-4 blocks, would be way too over-powered.

This to me is a little contradictory, in that if you can’t cut down big trees without having better tools, then all the small trees would be cut down very easily and people would just stock-pile leaves for their beacon fuel… I could essentially cut down an entire forest with a half decent axe in a matter of minutes.

Surely the floating islands on various worlds partly fall into this category as well then… along with some players builds that defy the laws of gravity.

If you’re going for realism, then the trees would not instantly fall down and break apart into neat travel-sized blocks, you would need to manually cut them up piece by piece. This would require a physics system to determine which way the tree falls, if there are other trees in the way etc.

The trouble I see with these first three statements is that now you have 3 quintessentially different ways to cut down a tree… which, personally, I feel breaks the consistency behind the player expectation of how things are supposed to work. Also, to me, sounds like a lot of unnecessary development overhead.

I agree with this, and would like to see different durability of trees (hard wood, soft wood etc.), but I think to achieve this, there would need to be a lot more varieties of wood - currently there are only 3 types, which are used for various tree sizes, across all of the planets.

This is the intention - it was changed to “all tools affect everything equally” a few updates ago, when work first started on the “statributes” system. It will be changed back to this at a later date.

Leaves do take a lot less time to cut on the latest test builds, so it is already in the pipe-line.

Regarding not being able to step on leaves - I’d have to say that I don’t agree here … tree canopies do not just consist of leaves, but branches as well.

Please also discuss topics and not people … it does not help your argument in any way, by targeting the person and not the subject being discussed. Courteousness goes both ways.

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You read the “easily” part, but you skipped the
“the durability cost of ALL blocks (leaf and wood alike) should be paid when done so and this should not be able to be performed with a Totem on all trees”

and
“Gigantic trees should not be affected by ground-ties-cutting (as that would be too easy to down and too destructive)”

and
“Trees should have tiers and not all trees should be able to be cut with all tools with the same amount of strikes.”

No, 300 wasn’t an exaggeration for the larger trees. I’ve gotten nearly 400 wood out of one tree I harvested. That you don’t know this indicates that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

All of these things are clearly dampers on the “easy” part.

As to the “versus coal” part, you realize that one wood is 4 spark, and one hard coal is 1,000 right? it takes more than one of even the gigantic trees to equal two pieces of hard coal. Hard coal is definitely the go-to for spark, for time, for tool durability, etc. As for burning it in furnace, no one uses coal in a furnace (once they know what they’re doing and/or have access to compact-peat harvesting locales) so it might be more of a competition there. Still, virtually no one is smelting upward of 1,000 pieces of metal/meat/glass/etc. in a day, let alone everyone doing it, so there’s no way people would cut down all the forests, let alone at the absurd rate of 3 times a day that you blithely try to imply is realistic.

Your objection wasn’t about tiny trees, this is called moving the goalposts.

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I explained to him in discord chat that a lot of these changes were in the works, but I have been encouraged, and imagine you will agree that the more players bringing up these changes in the forums, particularly when they discover the need for said changes on their own through exploration of the game, is ONLY beneficial for the devs to be able to see.

I think disagreements about his ideas are necessary and healthy to improving concepts, but i don’t feel that trying to speak for the community and dev team in the form of [quote=“Nibuls, post:19, topic:7614”]
you need a little patience.
[/quote]

are not all that helpful, and only serve to discourage new posters from having valid discussions about their ideas :wink:

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You can already completely fuel a beacon on testing with what, 3 pieces of wood? Is that cost going to be higher in live?

When you say “an entire forest” you mean a relatively small patch of trees in the grand scheme of things, like say 20 or 30 or so. You wouldn’t be cutting down more than that (with copper or iron “half-decent”) in less than 10 minutes, especially if they are larger trees. Even if you could, why would you? Again, unless you spending hours and hours mining and hunting for things to cook in the furnace, you simply wouldn’t be using that many trees at a continuous rate.

You’re right though. I tend to get… incendiary when I intuit that I am dealing with a certain variety of person (the type with preconceived conclusions and absolutely no intention of changing them no matter what). I’ll work on walking that back.

I don’t want to be able to cut entire trees down so easily. It’s way to easy in my opinion. Not only that, but if someone decided they didn’t like a town, they could cut all the landscape down around it in a matter of minutes. And while world regen happens after 8 hours, that will not happen if the town is busy and someone is there to prevent world regen. I know that’s not much a problem now but when the game goes live there will be a lot more players on to prevent world regen. There are some good ideas here, but I am 100% against cutting down entire trees just by chopping the base of the tree.

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I don’t know about you guys, but when I cut trees I will cut 2 whole lustrous gaint trees and come out with 1000 pieces, save them up and forget about it for a week, month or so, why go all the time to mine some wood?

When you start building a city, you get done with wood so fast, it’s scary.

The Oort Temple has easily taken over 10k pieces of wood. Each time I would go farm 2k and think it was enough.

I’ve been to Andooweem where there’s a forest of fully grown twisted trees.

And also to consider, in the next update, getting the tools to mine hard coal won’t be so easy, so getting other coals and fuel materials will take priority. When wood becomes so easy to harvest and you could find it just about anywhere, I would just cut it, store it and forget about getting fuel sources to do something else. When you don’t have much time to play, you make sure to cover your needs for a while in order to do something else.

I’ve actually come to like trees working that way, it makes sense with the regeneration we have, it doesn’t take long to mine (in the test you can mine 1 wood with 1 hit from iron) and it makes good with the creativity of the game. I’m on the believe that taking away some not so important physics in better of allowing more creativity is always a win scenario.

If physics were so important in the game, we wouldn’t have Pixel Gate, portals or other flying cities.

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Really, if it were done, it should only be doable with axes of iron/copper quality or above. If we look at older civilizations, they mostly didn’t cut down trees with stone tools, as it was far too effort and time intensive to do so. Most of them waited for trees to fall or burned around the base of them repeatedly to weaken them before tying ropes high up and breaking them or etc.

As for charging the axe you’re using when the tree breaks… it should probably actually be charged for each of the blocks you cut through in the trunk if you go that way. Blocks above that section of trunk divided by the number of blocks in that cross-section. Otherwise people would be cutting down certain trees that would more-than break an axe if harvested normally, while only using a single axe.

As for people clearing forests, I don’t really see it being an issue. It’s not terribly hard to do that anyways with a simple grapple and an axe if for some bizarre reason you actually find a way to go through that much wood (or just continuously stockpile full smart-stacks of wood… for some reason). Again, do you think people would do this multiple times a day forever?

As for the realism, sure if you want to go far enough the trees would fall over and have to be chopped up, but really, that’s a heck of a lot further down the realism spectrum than “not having floating tree-tops” is. It’s also probably very, very, very difficult or impossible to code in a voxel engine, isn’t it? I suppose you could do something like the whole tree dropping vertically block by block as you harvest the base of the tree. This would solve all problems involved, as you’d actually have to harvest each block, but you at least wouldn’t have to do the crazy, bizarre, and imperfect climbing-to-the-top method. Again, this might be prohibitively hard to program in as well.

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Man, I don’t know how you have the patience to farm 2k pieces of wood in a sitting. Maybe something to do with using actual tools to do it, instead of a totem like me (I suppose I have a bizarre “waste not want not” thing going on with my tools) where climbing tree after tree to successively hit wood blocks 16,000 times would melt my brain completely.

That being said, I also don’t use wood for anything other than when I absolutely have to (warp conduits and etc.) to me, I HATE harvesting trees, because of how repetitive and time consuming it is. I suppose that explains why I’m the guy who spidermans around the Nasharil flying mountains with a ruby grapple in only one hand and a gold hammer in the other looking for sapphires. Something about missing a grapple resulting in sudden death by lava or the ground makes it exciting.

Edit: Also, as to flying structures and Pixel Gate, that’s one thing, since it’s supposed to be that way. Spontaneously levitating tree tops is quite another. I suppose I’ve played too much minecraft and seen too many “trunkless forests”.

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If the reason for this suggested tree mechanics is ‘realism’, then they should implement block gravity, cause I can mine out a mountains all ties to the ground, and we will have a floating mountain. Oh and I just built a floating island, without any floating blocks. Blocks arent affected by gravity, they maybe could implement it, but I dont think it will happen, and its not good if it will only affect trees, cause floating rocks still ‘unrealistic’ but we already have a lot of unrealistic things in the world of Boundless (like cuttletrunks, flying tentacle monsters, wtf… Japan is that you?). Its already unrealistic that if I make a floating rock that will be not affected by gravity, but if I drop (not place) that rock from my inventory, that will. But thats the “physics” of this voxel world.

Harder trees, I aggre, we need some harder natural blocks beside resources, which ones needs better tools to be able to harvest them. So most starter trees/rocks/soil should be able to be harvested even with a totem, but there could be harder ones, like where you need at least silver tools for them, and not even that, but if starter tree blocks are 3 hits with a silver axe, then harder tree blocks should be 5 hits with a silver axe. But thats just a question if there will be different block HP for natural blocks too.

Tree seeds… well I dont know I am ok with it but not really need them, anyway, if it will be implemented they should be planted only inside beacons, cause you know world regeneration and stuff. Oh and if the seeds can rot then meat, berrys, etc should rot too. And I am ok with rot mechanics, but again, I am ok without it too.

Axes will only affect trees (like hammers for rock and shovels for soil), they did before some months ago but something went wrong, they will fix it.

Leaves. Well they are not only leaves, they are leaf blocks, so braches included. Of course they should be faster to harvest than the actual trunk blocks, but they should remain solid, until they change them from blocks to props (or resources), and if they do, than we need a compactor recipe for them: compact leaves, so leaf blocks could be crafted.

I agree with the suggested mod drop. So every animal should drop at least one meat, bone and tallow (except if that animal dont have it, like cuttletrunks without bones), and bigger/stronger animals should drop more, and with this they should change the recipes, cause we will swim in meat, bone and tallow. Only the rare drops should be chance based, like dark blood and oort stones.

With the current fluid mechanics I dont think that lava-buckets are good idea, cause players could just flood important areas with lava. Water-buckets are on the way, but im still afraid about them too, until they introduce a swimming suit and/or a breathing device.

About ore detection: my suggestion

Block placement are ok for me at least.

Durability display will be fixed.

Smart stacking bugs/glitches will be fixed.

Auto stack, auto sort will not happen I think, and yeah equipment wheel place and inventory place coupling is just weird, but manageable.

Creature HP is visible, but more visual improvements for it too are on the way like guilds and element system. And I hope more movement gadgets like you suggested too.

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People looking for realism please go play Life Is Feudal. :stuck_out_tongue:

People have ideas about everything all the time and everyone can easily find at least one thing they would love to change.

No need to get to such heated discussion. Take it easy lads and don’t get too attached to your own ideas and opinions.

Peace and love.
:sunglasses:

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That was the reason I mentioned tree seeds, as you can cut one tree and plant some more. Also 8 hours is the chunk regeneration time so 8 hours for 1 tree is ridiculously long, so we should be able to (depending on tier if there will be any) observe some of the growing trees. Fast growing times and higher crafting requirements may help if such mechanic is ever implemented (which I highly doubt). So about 30 minutes or maybe, 1 hour for small trees and 2 to 3 (or more) hours should be sufficient for larger counterparts.

PS: Also, even small trees can be made about 4 blocks thick if such mechanic is implemented.

Now, I have to agree with that.

nope, why you decide what i read and what not!?
If i’m quoting not whole post its not mean that i not readed it, ok?!

OK, maybe I was wrong here, I have not cut down trees for a very long time (but i remember that the giant twisted tree is about 150 wood blocks), but it confirms my assumption that everything will be cut down if you can cut each tree. But again, if you can cut only a small tree, then why do you need it if you get about 15 blocks? Or you want - harder tools cut down bigger trees - more confusion.

oh, come on, why you decide that i speak for the community and devs? I can’t say my word in this suggestion topic? And if someone can suggest something, why i can’t do something that discredits his idea, if I do not like it?

This directly break the basic mechanics of the game - Renewing of the world.

and it’s also other game, not Minecraft :wink:

I’ll inform you about the fact that I never played Minecraft, and we do have something similar. Grass seeds are pretty common if you hit some of the soil that has grass on it. Also the fact that we can impact the renewal other than just standing in a chunk that has a timer sounds better. We can make our own, controlled forests, and maybe even plant trees where there are none.

You misinterpreted, friend :slight_smile: i certainly encourage disagreement! Did not wish to become a part of the personal discussions/arguments here, only to steer them in a more productive direction. I will take my leave of this thread.

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please don’t. I can’t read minds. You wrote, i answered.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/speak-for-someone#translations

Sorry for this, everyone, but I can not leave it like this.

Nope, it’s you, friend :wink:, misunderstand me, when i tryed to say that is you misunderstand me.:joy: