Is Mid-game still a problem for new players?

[MinerDiggerMan]

@MrNiX

Ok, so i do understand. I might then suggest first discussing if this group of players will be beneficial to the game. I haven’t considered it much but would love to hear peoples thoughts.

Yeah. I have no idea if Boundless needs to grow in playerbase more, and if it does, I’m just not sure how effective the current game is going to be at doing that. If Boundless does need more players, I think changes are need to retain them, hence my first two starting statements.

This game is hard, it is complicated. It’s not something people can just pick up and play. They lose all their work if they take a break. You take one look at the Forge and become overwhelmed. After spending 10 hours farming gems on Serp, and you only got enough for 1 coil and you need like 5 more, and then you realize you need to get like 5 more coils for all the other gems, that’s hard, it’s overwhelming, it’s so grindy and boring.

Telling someone to trade just means you bypass what people might consider content. It’d be no different than a Borderlands MMO, where you get to mid-game and you have to kill the same exact enemy for 80 hours to get to the next story mission, and people say, “Well, if you find it boring, just have an end-game player give you a super strong gun.”

That’s not good gameplay design. New players shouldn’t be coming to the forums and be offered 3x3 AOE hammers to make the gameplay tolerable.

[majorvex]

@MinerDiggerMan

countless people on the forums and in Discord quit because of how boring mining was

I am interested to hear what option there is …how do you mine without mining?

@MinerDiggerMan

You cannot progress in the game if you don’t mine.

This is simply not true. If you are putting restrictions upon yourself that are preventing you from progressing at a pace that you are happy with, maybe try something different.

@MinerDiggerMan

you’er a solo player who doesn’t like to trade, how else are you going to get coils

You make them, once you’ve collected the materials.

@MinerDiggerMan

far more people have quit Boundless than have stayed with it

I would need to see factual records. I don’t like assumptions.

[MrNiX]

But if the current playerbase is enough to sustain development, then I suppose you don’t have to, and the game can continue to cater to those who remain.

Yep, this is the question that needs to be answered. It defines whether or not this topic is relevant

[Conkuur]

I find 98% of the regular players here that play are smart. intuitive,resourceful, problem solvers and self starter types because you are right the game doesnt hold your hand nor does it really fully explain anything really BUT if it was that type of game most of us wouldnt be here because thered be no challenge. I also find most the folks here that play regular are not kids (which always leaves me scratching my head because all the drama) So most of us older folks know what a REAL grind looks like so we dont see the grind as some do.

i have also given new players stuff and I find this has only expedited their departure part of playing any game is feeling YOU as an INDIVIDUAL have figured something out or solved a puzzle on your own merits. If you take that from someone by just giving them what they need then you have in fact stolen that accomplishment and they soon grow bored.There was a guy here recently busting his butt to get what he needed I was all for pointting him in the right direction and maybe throw him a tool BUT when you give him all the machines and coils what satisfaction does he get but a temporary one of just having it given to him?

While I agree that things in this game are a bit vague that might could use some tweeking I’m not for all the handholding Im not 5.

I absolutely never wanted to ever have to forge but the guy that forged stuff for me for a % of gems left so out of necessity I had to learn it and Im glad I did now. There is a certain satisfaction knowing I made a nice tool and it is on par with others for sale.

This is a game you either love or hate which is probably why your point is valid theres not that "it " factor that appeals to a wider audience. I often have the same thoughts you have but I worry it might change what I like most about it.

[MinerDiggerMan]

@majorvex

I am interested to hear what option there is …how do you mine without mining?

Cave mining, bomb mining, increasing meteor rewards, adding Titans that specifically drop gems. There are ways to add variety to mining without requiring a player to stand in front of a solid rock wall for dozens of hours.

@majorvex

This is simply not true. If you are putting restrictions upon yourself that are preventing you from progressing at a pace that you are happy with, maybe try something different.

No one puts restrictions on themselves. It’s a game. People play it for fun. If mining isn’t fun, and they are solo players, the game design forces them to quit because it’s no longer fun for them. The solution is to change the game so walls people reach are easier hurdles to climb by either reducing the grind, or adding variety for players.

@majorvex

I would need to see factual records. I don’t like assumptions.

It’s not an assumption. Even on the last free weekend, the max population was close to like 1,000 concurrent, and the end result was like 50-100 new concurrent players.

People here have a habit of defending the game’s current mechanics because they see no problem with them, without ever putting themselves in the shoes of the countless people who quit.

[MinerDiggerMan]

@Conkuur

I often have the same thoughts you have but I worry it might change what I like most about it.

This is a fair and reasonable comment. I understand. I think it’s important we all look at ways to bring more players in, and help them stay, while allowing long-time vets like yourself to still enjoy the game too.

[majorvex]

@MinerDiggerMan

Trading with other players is not an option for people who buy Boundless because they want to play solo. It goes against everything that player wants in the game.

I mean, I don’t play Asphalt 9 and then get upset when there’s no fishing or magic weapons.

I don’t see why someone would buy a game that clearly states it’s an MMO, then being unhappy that there are other players & it’s not geared toward solo players. I started playing BL solo because that’s the way I always play every MMO, so I get you. However, I’ve never gone on the forums of those other games & told them that they should re-format the game towards my style. I know I’m being hard-headed and making things difficult for myself, but it’s how I wanted to play. I accept the repercussions.

BL is the only game where I interact with other players in game, for the most part. I finally decided to give trading a try & I’m really happy that I did. Why are you adamant against trading with another player? I’m sure someone would love to trade with you. If you need coils, I’d be happy to give or lend you some. I don’t forge great hammers, but I’d be happy to give you one of my wonky forged ones.

[majorvex]

@MinerDiggerMan

Cave mining, bomb mining, increasing meteor rewards, adding Titans that specifically drop gems.

I like these ideas. Thank you for elaborating.

[majorvex]

@MinerDiggerMan

No one puts restrictions on themselves

@MinerDiggerMan

and they don’t want to trade, how else can they get the necessary materials to progress in the game

You said you or other players refuse to trade = unnecessary restrictions

@MinerDiggerMan

Even on the last free weekend, the max population was close to like 1,000 concurrent, and the end result was like 50-100 new concurrent players

Free players = has not bought the game yet. We don’t know how many did. Only Boundless has those numbers. Therefore, you are making assumptions about the number of people that purchased the game and the # of those that might have quit. Not factual data.

[Conkuur]

“Fun” is subjective I find it fun, just because it might not be popular doesnt make it not Fun. Skydiving is fun but Its not for everyone. I think you mean it should have more options of fun. I totally agree there this is not a massively appealing game for sure.

[MinerDiggerMan]

@majorvex

I don’t see why someone would buy a game that clearly states it’s an MMO, then being unhappy that there are other players & it’s not geared toward solo players.

The game is advertised as such on the Steam Store Page,

“Boundless is a sandbox MMORPG that enables player collaboration. You can choose to play solo, or join up with friends or players from all over the world. Explore, defeat dangerous creatures, gather rare resources and build a colony together.”

If the game isn’t solo friendly, it shouldn’t advertise itself as being solo, but even if it didn’t, the problem is the vast majority of people who ever bought Minecraft and Creativerse did so to play solo or with friends, not as an MMO, so people are going to have burned in expectations about Boundless because it has voxels.

@majorvex

Why are you adamant against trading with another player?

I did all the grinding, I experienced it, I was here on launch day before 3x3 AOE was everywhere, and I pushed through it, and it turned me off from the game because I realized just how much grinding it would take to play the game as a solo player.

I want to overcome the obstacles of games myself. That is what I, and many other solo players, find enjoyment in. Clearly, based on the reviews on Steam and elsewhere, many, many other people feel the grind is too much, but it’s unclear if that is because they never had access to 3x3 AOE, or something else.

But I’ll say again, if the current playerbase is enough to sustain development, and my advice isn’t needed, we should be told. I have no intention of pushing the game in any direction other than what is most profitable, because at the end of the day, I’m coming back to Boundless probably only when Private Servers release and I’m allowed to modify the game in such a way that it’s enjoyable for a solo player like myself.

As long as Boundless is successful, I ought to one day get Private Servers. That’s my goal. If that means features are added to the game I dislike, I’m fine with that, because again, I can possibly alter them with a private server.

No other voxel game offers building options like Boundless (as well as the basic framework of an adventure/survival game), or I’d be playing them instead.

[ginabean]

@MinerDiggerMan

It is not the community’s responsibility to bridge the mid-game to end-game for new players

New players shouldn’t be mid game when they are new… that being said, not all players are going to reach endgame. Why? Lots depends on how many hours one has time to play, as well as just they type of gamer they are. I know there are a few players who have been around for months who still say they “can’t go to T6” planets… which I think is ridiculous considering.

@MinerDiggerMan

Coming onto the forums to ask for help with Boundless should not be necessary for adequate progression.

I can agree with this to some degree. People shouldn’t “have” to, but I think one of the obvious reasons for a forum is to share ideas and ask questions. I spoke with a new player just today and one of his frustrations was the lack of information online in regards to the game. I do think there needs to be some rework to make things more understandable… especially for new players.

@majorvex

This is an MMO. If you choose not to partake in the “MMO” part, you might miss out on a few features/things. It’s your choice.

I 1000% agree with you, @majorvex. It’s an MMO and if you want you can go solo, but you won’t get the full impact of the game and you’ll likely grow bored and burn out sooner.

@MinerDiggerMan

Trading with other players is not an option for people who buy Boundless because they want to play solo. It goes against everything that player wants in the game.

It’s an MMO so why would anyone think the devs should cater to a single player base? That doesn’t mean they should make solo play impossible, but I’d rather the devs focus on the MMO part.

@MinerDiggerMan

Telling someone, “Hey, you don’t enjoy mindlessly slamming an iron hammer at a gem wall for 30+ hours? Go trade.” Is not a solution for many players.

Why is it not a solution? I hardly ever go mining and it’s probably my least favorite thing to do in game. Weird though, when I do mine I enjoy myself, but I wouldn’t want to have that be my “main gig”.

@MinerDiggerMan

This game is just insanely complicated compared to other games.

It is complicated and I do have to agree with you on this point, yet if you reach out and meet people (MMO!!!) you can get the answers you seek…

@majorvex

I’ve seen several “vets” post about happily mining with iron or titanium tools on T6+

Lol… reminds me of my first set of mixer coils… just me and a stack of unforced iron hammers… took HOURS! New players today have it soooo much easier than players had at release…

@bregma

Some things should be hard in a game, or else it devolves into fluffy pith and players find something that keeps their interest to do instead.

Yep. I totally agree with this point. I’m glad things take thought and effort. I’m not too concerned with instant gratification and I think the maturity of the player base shows here. Older players tend to be more patient and willing to grind a bit more than their younger counterparts.

@MinerDiggerMan

How can we keep the people who don’t enjoy the game as it is right now? Who don’t enjoy the gem wall, trading, the complexity, etc.

I’m gonna say it and people are not going to like it… but, if they don’t enjoy the game, they don’t enjoy it. It is what it is. Not every game is meant for everyone… I can’t stand COD, but I wouldn’t expect the devs to change the game because I don’t like shooter games. I’ve bought a few games that I didn’t enjoy and I just shrug and move on.

I do want this game to succeed and I do think a more complete wiki would help. I also think the devs will continue to bring us new content and increase server capability to support more players… once they start marketing this game, I really believe this game will take off…

[majorvex]

@MinerDiggerMan

it shouldn’t advertise itself as being solo

It says MMO everywhere. You can play it solo if you want to, just like any other MMO.

@MinerDiggerMan

I realized just how much grinding it would take to play the game as a solo player

I am one of those that knows what grinding truly is from other large MMOs…Boundless doesn’t come close by a hundred miles.

@MinerDiggerMan

As long as Boundless is successful, I ought to one day get Private Servers. That’s my goal. If that means features are added to the game I dislike, I’m fine with that, because again, I can possibly alter them with a private server.

This sounds like a good option for people that want an absolute solo experience.

@MinerDiggerMan

No other voxel game offers building options like Boundless (as well as the basic framework of an adventure/survival game)

I disagree with this 100% because they are out there & flourishing. Boundless is in it’s infancy compared to some other building sandbox MMOs. I can’t wait to see what they do in the future.

[GrayFrequency]

@majorvex

I am one of those that knows what grinding truly is from other large MMOs…Boundless doesn’t come close by a hundred miles.

Yes there are some other games with grinds that take actual years, and drop tables to the 0.0001% cough OSRS an mmo that still has 100k daily players cough

[GrayFrequency]

Warframe can be a grind too depending on what you are doing

When Garuda first released it took me a full week just to get her parts(this was the day she dropped, not too long after they made her easier to obtain…), and then 3 additional days to wait for her crafting process to be done

[Conkuur]

Maybe if we could all just address what we each personally see as a problem collect all the ones that match and maybe the Devs see this and prioritize?

First on my list I remember seeing my first cool build in the game I went inside it was just machines and storage no life no pictures on the wall just like I walked into an empty home. I thought to myself “Isnt this mainly a building game? wheres the furniture the window dressings?”

secondly in game report function doesnt work

3. No Gms in game to handle a game thats clearly territorial but no referees. (I know a lot of people who left because of this)

4. Chat sucks PERIOD no communication equals miscommunication equals disputes and misunderstandings.

5. Not casual friendly at all if you arent paying attention your stuff will be gone next time you log and portals closed.

6. theres a hierarchy in this game that you learn by the time you hit mid game and ppl dont like playing on an un even playing field.

Those are just off the top of my head.

[Alienfish]

@MinerDiggerMan

I’d use the Sanctum to warp TO locations I’ve saved in my tab, but I’ll be honest, even that seems like something the average player wouldn’t think to do. It’s complicated.

Do you warp interplanetary all the time too, cause that’s what I’m talking about. The average player can’t afford that. 100c for a same planet jump, it works, that’s known. Having a 12x6 portal that only you can go through and lasts for two weeks. That’s unknown. It might help solo players feel less chained to interplanetary portal hubs.

[MinerDiggerMan]

@majorvex

You said you or other players refuse to trade = unnecessary restrictions

Those are not restrictions players have put on themselves, those are restrictions the develops have put on the players.

Games are optional. People play games for fun. If someone hates the gem grind, and they want to play solo, they have no option in Boundless to keep playing and enjoying the game. Their fun is restricted by the design of Boundless devs.

@majorvex

Free players = has not bought the game yet. We don’t know how many did. Only Boundless has those numbers. Therefore, you are making assumptions about the number of people that purchased the game and the # of those that might have quit. Not factual data.

Boundless went from 293 active Steam players, to 1,150 over the free weekend, down to about 354 after it ended. That’s roughly a 50-concurrent-player increase. That’s more than enough data to conclude that of ~800 concurrent-people who tried Boundless, ~50 of them continued to play beyond the free weekend.

What can be done to retain those players?

@ginabean

It’s an MMO so why would anyone think the devs should cater to a single player base? That doesn’t mean they should make solo play impossible, but I’d rather the devs focus on the MMO part.

From the store page,

“Boundless is a sandbox MMORPG that enables player collaboration. You can choose to play solo, or join up with friends or players from all over the world. Explore, defeat dangerous creatures, gather rare resources and build a colony together.”

@ginabean

Why is it not a solution?

Gem wall mining and trading are not solutions for some people who play the game because they want to play Boundless solo.

@ginabean

I can’t stand COD, but I wouldn’t expect the devs to change the game because I don’t like shooter games.

COD doesn’t need you to buy the game to fund development.

@majorvex

It says MMO everywhere. You can play it solo if you want to, just like any other MMO.

Then solo play shouldn’t be horridly grindy. Either allow solo play, or don’t.

@majorvex

I am one of those that knows what grinding truly is from other large MMOs…Boundless doesn’t come close by a hundred miles.

No one should be comparing Boundless to other MMO’s, afterall, Boundless is a building MMO, right? It has far more in common with Minecraft than it does World of Warcraft or Black Desert Online.

@majorvex

I disagree with this 100% because they are out there & flourishing.

Which voxel MMO is flourishing that also offers what Boundless does? Trove, Creativerse, and Minecraft all don’t offer the building variety Boundless does, and Minecraft is the only one with a definite future ahead of it.

@Alienfish

Do you warp interplanetary all the time too, cause that’s what I’m talking about.

Ah, I see what you mean. When I warped, it was after I had gotten to a planet. That said, portal networks didn’t require me to buy or sell or worry about my economy. I just walked in. It might as well have just been put there by devs on every planet and made part of a quest line, something you repair to help you reach new worlds.

[majorvex]

@MinerDiggerMan

Those are not restrictions players have put on themselves, those are restrictions the develops have put on the players.

If you are refusing to trade with other players, that is your own choice. The devs have provided you with the ability to trade for the items you can’t get or don’t want to.

@MinerDiggerMan

Games are optional. People play games for fun. If someone hates the gem grind, and they want to play solo, they have no option in Boundless to keep playing and enjoying the game…

Yes. Yes. Your option is to trade with others or hunt meteors. You seem to dislike all options.

@MinerDiggerMan

Boundless went from 293 active Steam players, to 1,150 over the free weekend, down to about 354 after it ended

Yes, more people play when it’s free. I think BL would benefit from the F2P model. We still don’t have any hard factual data on the #s from the free weekend, only guesses. (You want to play solo, yet you want more players?) I think they need to overhaul a few basic things then get serious about marketing, but I don’t work for them so that’s N.O.M.B.

@MinerDiggerMan

Then solo play shouldn’t be horridly grindy. Either allow solo play, or don’t.

MMOs don’t force people to play with or without others. Especially sandboxes. You do what you want to. If you want to solo, you do it.

@MinerDiggerMan

No one should be comparing Boundless to other MMO’s, afterall, Boundless is a building MMO, right

@MinerDiggerMan

Which voxel MMO is flourishing that also offers what Boundless does? Trove, Creativerse, and Minecraft all don’t offer the building variety Boundless does, and Minecraft is the only one with a definite future ahead of it.

There are other large healthy building sandbox MMOs with thousands of players. I did not mention BDO or WoW.
I’m not sure what you mean by building variety. Some of the other games have waaaay more blocks, places, styles, etc to build with than BL does by far. Also not sure why you keep mentioning Minecraft - it doesn’t have much in common with Boundless at this point imo.

I don’t consider this a large variety (this is why I keep saying BL needs more content & items):

[Alienfish]

I just want to say that I am largely solo, but when it came time to make some coils, I bought a hammer that someone else forged, who was ahead of me in the game. I try to remind myself how it would have gone if I hadn’t made that decision. It would have been hard. I keep a shop open on Cephonex with beginner goods for just this reason.