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I’ve seen new players continue to experience the same mid-game grind we all did a year ago.

I think these walls of solid-rock boredom on T5 planets are what the vast majority of players run into when they play Boundless, and as great as it is the community steps in to help, they shouldn’t need to.

It is not the community’s responsibility to bridge the mid-game to end-game for new players

We can argue all day long about what the solutions are, but,

  1. Coming onto the forums to ask for help with Boundless should not be necessary for adequate progression.

  2. Telling a player, “Just use the market and trade for materials you want if you don’t enjoy gathering them” is not a solution for the many solo players who try the game. If something isn’t fun to do, a new method should be added that is fun.

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A lot of players come to the forums for help, tips, suggestions, etc - newbies, mid-game, vets. I don’t see that as an issue. However, if the wiki was more complete, more players might use that :woman_shrugging:

Those are options. If you don’t want to gather the items yourself for free, you can trade with other players or buy them and vise versa. What other option could there be?

This is an MMO. If you choose not to partake in the “MMO” part, you might miss out on a few features/things. It’s your choice.

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I do agree.
People are giving stuff to new players that they dont actually need yet and they are “skipping” steps from the game.

I do realize is nice to have that shortcut but in the long run whats the use if you dont learn the game?

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No one should have to unless they are theory crafting min-max builds or discussing the game. No person should be getting stuck at the gem wall grind, ever, and they shouldn’t require 3x3 AOE handouts in order to enjoy the game.

Trading with other players is not an option for people who buy Boundless because they want to play solo. It goes against everything that player wants in the game. If something in the game isn’t fun for a player, then it needs to be made fun, or have other gathering options added, much like there are orb farms, and you can gather wild orbs.

Telling someone, “Hey, you don’t enjoy mindlessly slamming an iron hammer at a gem wall for 30+ hours? Go trade.” Is not a solution for many players.

Based on the player count, I’d say it’s time we question designing all systems around Boundless being an MMO.

This game is just insanely complicated compared to other games. Beacon controls, Guild Controls, districts, Helixes in districts, warping, the forge, not to mention how absurdly complicated farming is for min-maxing instead of something simple like Stardew Valley. Every year Boundless alienates more and more casual players, retaining only the diehard fans.

Is it REALLY working?

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This is prevented in most games by having to reach a certain level before you can equip X armor, craft X food, or use X machine.

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No one is forced to do anything. I’ve seen several “vets” post about happily mining with iron or titanium tools on T6+. It’s their choice. I didn’t need an AOE handout to enjoy the game.

This is an MMO. It was not made as a downloadable, play by myself solo game. However, it doesn’t stop people from playing it solo if they want to. I think it’s unrealistic to expect Boundless to change their entire genre for solo gamers.

There is more to Boundless then mining. I rarely mine.

I can’t disagree with this point.

I don’t work for Boundless so I can’t answer this.

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I agree it shouldn’t be necessary to ever NEED to come to the forums for answers. One thing I notice that isn’t very intuitive for beginners is forge traits and kind of what to expect. Especially as a solo player, there isn’t a lot of room for error when you finally get your forge and want to try some things out and you have so few materials to work with.

I don’t really think there’s a way to make a game equally good for solo players as opposed to groups. That seems like a preference thing to me with each choice having it’s own pros and cons. That said, I think solo play would be pretty much impossible without the portal networks.

And now I’ve had an insight. Personal portals. These would have a much lower oort cost but only allow the beacon owner through.

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Countless people have quit the game because their options are either bore themselves to death by grinding for gems for dozens of hours in front of a rock wall, or quit. Because these people don’t want to trade. They want to complete the content themselves. If Boundless presents them with options they don’t enjoy, they have no option but to quit, because people play games for fun.

Your anecdote that some people do enjoy it is meaningless, because clearly, a lot of people don’t, or they wouldn’t come to the forums and ask for help, or complain in Steam reviews about the grind.

The game needs options for those who want to play solo. It needs more fun ways to gather gems instead of mindless grinding.

They don’t need to change entire genre to add content that caters to different playstyles.

You cannot progress in the game if you don’t mine. Everything you build in the game is interconnected. If someone is put into a scenario where they can no longer enjoy the game, they quit. Boundless needs to change designs to prevent that from happening.

Then perhaps the devs should be candid about it. If their current vision is working, let us know, and those similar to myself can see ourselves out.

This is probably true to an extent, however, it’s perfectly possible to reduce the gap more, so it isn’t as daunting.

Don’t we already kinda have that but with sanctum warping instead?

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Interesting idea. I assume you mean semi permanent…

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Some things should be hard in a game, or else it devolves into fluffy pith and players find something that keeps their interest to do instead.

I put some effort into trying to convince several experts to contribute some forging guides to the wiki but was met with consistent negativity. There is a remarkable hostility toward the wiki in many quarters – which may be a console thing, since using third-party external resources is not part of the walled-garden culture (not to mention impractical), but it comes from places like the forum and discord, which are not console either (are they?).

I don’t have a problem with using external resources as an aid to enjoy the game. In my day job I rely on external references for information all the time – no mere human such as I could hold the necessary information to do my job in my head. Also, I can read the forum and wiki at work and plan my precious play time well before I even log on to the game.

It’s OK to use the right tool for the job: the job should not have to change to fit the tool. It’s OK to engage with others in a multiplayer online game. In fact, if you choose to play a multiplayer game just as a means to be antisocial, you need to be willing to accept that the game may not be designed to make it easy for you.

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Players don’t only mine for gems. Everything doesn’t revolve around mining and gems. Tbh I have not heard too much complaining about mining for gems.

Some people do enjoy the game, and that is not meaningless. The game does need more content, but that will come as it does.

Some players do not progress passed T4 planets, and that is what they are happy with. Some players will venture to higher worlds, and find how to get gems. I really have not heard anyone complain about getting gems.

The devs are busy working on the game. They do answer, but remember they have more to do than read the forums.

This is an mmo. You can play in groups, play solo, or a hybrid.

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If you don’t like mining for gems, don’t. If you don’t want to trade, don’t. If you want to complete things yourself, then do so…I did. I played solo for quite awhile myself. Boundless is just a game & can’t be everything to everyone.

Most of the people complaining on steam don’t like the initial cost and they rage quit when their beacons go out. I don’t think I’ve seen one that said they rage quit because they are forced to trade or mine diamonds all day.

You can play solo if you want, no one is stopping you. How else do you mine a gem, besides mining it? You either mine it or don’t. You want options to mining - what would those be? You can get gems from meteors, buying, trading, etc. There are options already.

Not true. You can earn XP in many ways.

Not sure why you’re unhappy that a “building MMO” is mostly about MMO & building. :woman_shrugging:

I would like this too. Even if it’s just one stream/video at the end of every month where they say “hi, we’re all content & things are going well”.

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dunno i seen people come that just like to build
so if i have all this material laying around and can help them to access it without grind it might keep em playing
it all depends on what kind off player they are
i usually shower them with iron tools
those who dont like that usually tell me so
and dont accept
its also something we have put into the game
you get stuff later on you give stuff
is nice thing we got going here

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I understand where minerdiggers coming from.
That this is perhaps more a generic statement about generic players. Im going to venture out and say that if your reading this, like me you dont mind trading and have found grinding or otherwise bypassing solo player barriers to be fun. Or at least your not an idealist about it. Otherwise… You probably aren’t around anymore to read this. So, the post is about keeping players who are not exactly like those reading this post. And the assumption is that it would be beneficial to do so. Perhaps because this group might be slightly larger than the current player base. @MinerDiggerMan am i understanding correctly?

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Well, I figure this kind of thing could allow a solo player to set up their own portal networks. The only reasonable thing you can do from the sanctum is warp home.

I really get where you’re coming from with this statement, but forging is a hard wall just to approach. I would 100% for a complete rework where there’s a clear beginner level that’s easy for anyone all the way up to a master level that dare not be approached except by true forge masters. I also would like to see some hidden attributes that affect farming and forging in unexpected ways. So yeah, we can meet up later to slap five about our shared hate towards fluffy pith. :hugs:

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Exactly. The biggest problem with the current forum is that it’s filled with people who are more or less happy with how the game is, compared to people who left and their voices aren’t heard.

How can we keep the people who don’t enjoy the game as it is right now? Who don’t enjoy the gem wall, trading, the complexity, etc.

I’d use the Sanctum to warp TO locations I’ve saved in my tab, but I’ll be honest, even that seems like something the average player wouldn’t think to do. It’s complicated.

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Ok, so i do understand. I might then suggest first discussing if this group of players will be beneficial to the game. I haven’t considered it much but would love to hear peoples thoughts.

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Only Boundless has info on retention. It may be worse than we think, it might be better. We dunno.

If someone doesn’t speak up as to why they left, we’ll never know. Some people have said IRL things have pulled them away. There are many reasons people stop playing games. Some just burn out too and come back later.

Tool → mine → gems. From day one, if you choose. I don’t see a gem wall.

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If someone doesn’t like how boring it is to stand in front of a solid rock wall and slowly chip away at it for dozens of hours to get gems and make coils, and they don’t want to trade, how else can they get the necessary materials to progress in the game?

They can’t. There is no other way that is even remotely efficient.

I just looked at the Steam reviews, and the first negative ones I saw, most upvoted, all talked about the resource grind and how long it took. Back when the game released, countless people on the forums and in Discord quit because of how boring mining was. Resource grind and mining are related.

Maybe they can make mining fun for more people so it doesn’t feel as grindy and boring?

I have not once ever complained that the game is a building MMO. If someone is a solo player, they cannot progress in the game if they don’t mine. Coils need gems. Coils are needed to make countless end-game items. They need to mine for gems. If someone thinks mining for gems on Serp is boring, and they’re a solo player who doesn’t like to trade, how else are you going to get coils? They won’t. So they quit.

There are countless other games releasing all the time. Once someone quits Boundless, and their beacon runs out, what possible reason could they have to try it again after they’ve lost all their hard work?

I get it, you like the game, most of the people remaining on these forums likes the game, but far more people have quit Boundless than have stayed with it, and so people here need to stop thinking in terms of what they enjoy, and start thinking in terms of what the people who quit enjoy.

But if the current playerbase is enough to sustain development, then I suppose you don’t have to, and the game can continue to cater to those who remain.

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I hit a gem wall. It was a dggffffhjgdxddd. It hit it because at the time i didnt understand atlases or gem altitudes. And at the time there was lower respawn and lower planet count… And each planets gem layer was perpetually a swiss cheese of 3*3 tunnels. I solved this by researching forum posts and buying enough plots to cap a small section of serp so it would regen and give me enough time to get it with an iron hammer.

Fyi, this isnt an argument that things should be easier… Just that at one point in time solo playing had a wall. And after that i completely gave up on solo playing. Best choice ever