Yes, i repeat what i said. You’re forcing people like me to join the guild. Because since that forger can sell for cheaper, they now get all the sales.
I have to join the guild to keep up.
There is no other choice, i just have to join.
You can spin this as “oh it’s your choice” but it isn’t. If you’re manipulating the market to where a select few can decide who has low prices, it’s literally a “You’re either in or you’re not getting sales” situation.
If you actually think people will opt to buy from people selling it at current prices when Jimmy The Forger is selling for 5k, you’re out of your mind.
you can buy from that forger in his shop outside the guild
if he is fair he will have lower price because he used the guild to buy cheaper ingredients
if he is not fair he wont be in the guild, nothing changes for you
find a few fair people who get a chance to buy cheaper in the guild and lower prices in their public shops, and you have yourself a chance to find cheaper goods - you can join the guild to support the idea and buy only inside the guild but non-members should have a chance to see same price goods be shared outside the guild as well
I can’t see it working if it’s “buy and sell in the guild only”
You’re still spinning this wrong. Jimmy the forger joins the guild and is required to sell at 5k.
I don’t join the guild, i don’t have access to those prices, so i’m selling at 12k.
Do you really think i have any chance in the market left?
Just saying, if you’re gonna manipulate the market, make it a community-wide effort. Don’t give a single guild leader with some guild officers the power to decide things. We did it with oort without a guild too.
Your entire argument falls apart at the spot where the OP mentions that you can’t join the guild unless you make it through a personal application process. I don’t think there’s an understanding of how much drama it will cause when people start getting denied.
DISCLAIMER: laptop froze and I got delayed and my thoughts got derailed, I still ended up rambling and got a train of thoughts typed LIVE, so sorry for the wall of text and maybe repetitive bits… if you have patience to read through this than at least you know you care I might know if I know you read it all lol
Ah, I see you are also the seller - didn’t catch that, sorry
It reminds me, actually, about the first weeks and months of the game, when I tried to be a seller and kept finding shops where players sold well below average market prices, because they could (they had time to play it seems and didn’t put a price on time and tools they used to get resources they sold raw or craft items to be sold then). It just happens - I personally like to put price on my time in mining/crafting etc. but I had to give it up because there are always players offering special dealz and give aways etc so I learnt to sell on a cheap too eventually or stop running shops full time.
Well the idea of the guild is (so I think anyways) to try to lower prices throughout the market. It’s not really different than several players doing it individually by offering hand trades, gifting things etc. It’s just in this idea they are organized so they don’t have to arrange meetings to hand over stuff cheaper than regular prices. You already have that competition at work, its just not organized in a guild. People have been, are and will be selling cheaper than you or even giving stuff for free for others. And there already are players who are not buying from you (or other shops) because they can’t afford it and they find helpers gifting them stuff or selling at purely symbolic price.
A few points to gather my thoughts as this post turns out to be a flow of chaotic thoughts (and my laptop froze in a process so I got delayed and derailed lol):
Your prices ae based either on your costs of materials or time spent on getting them. Why not join the guild to buy cheaper and sell cheaper then? It’s the same as browsing existing shops and finding a cheaper one. You buy ingredients cheaper and sell in your existing shop at a better price for all. You might put some of your goods on the side to sell in guild shop for members only to actually get to customers that have never been to your shop before maybe? And you keep selling in your main shop for those who are used to it.
Let’s say you don’t join the guild to buy there (and maybe sell some of your goods there too) - you still can sell at your usual prices - there won’t be infinite access to cheaper items in the guild so some people will still have to buy somewhere else as they do now, including your shop (and, again, the guild shops would only represent the already existing hand-trade market of cheap sales and gifts - something that keeps several players off other shops already).
I’m thinking - the buyer members would have to be watched and such membership should be based on real community-driven approach, where people use the guild to buy because they really don’t participate in the market as is (meaning they don’t buy from you anyway) or because they use the guild as experienced crafters who WANT to provide cheaper stuff for all, thus don’t mind to join and buy within guild to be able to provide affordable rices in all their shops.
ALL THAT BEING SAID: I don’t know how @Xaldafax sees his idea in detail and I may be misreading his intentions and concept - but I’m sharing what I think his idea might be, potentially.
I appreciate all input and especially concerns being shared - good things can only be created if possible outcomes are fully realized and discussed.
This is the entire crux of what I have an issue with. The idea that I will literally not be able to partcipate in the market because I won’t join the guild.
I’ve already mentioned why i refuse to align my beacons, I also don’t want to join a guild to do something the community can do together instead. You’re creating a situation where i don’t have that choice though. I have to join to get the cheaper resources. We’re all going to get forced to follow rules set by a select few, because of those cheaper resources.
This is factually untrue. You can’t anymore. If jimmy the forger is selling at 5k, i can’t sell at 12k anymore. I will be forced to run red because the guild that i’m not even in is dictating prices with resources i don’t have access to.
my understanding is you don’t if you don’t want to - I would build a small shop in separate beacon to just provide cheap oort to buyer members in need to help them run their portals (if its not a vanity portal project that is); the rest of my mini-empire remains the same and in my own guild of old
you do realize you can be in a few guilds and some of them can be there just to allow you to participate in a certain project or activity without making it your main guild or align all your beacons to it?
I doubt the lower prices would be as much lower than your regular
A question though - what dictates your price more: time spent or coin spent?
I doubt it will. Some players - who I would want to be really the ones in need that don’t really participate in the market anyways because they can’t afford it - will have access to a cheaper portal fuel or cheaper hammer etc. - but to be true, how much of that stuff can be crafted without suddenly hunting and mining more that we all do at the moment?
I can put some of my oort aside for the guild buyers - someone else might be able to offer some of their tools there. The amount of stuff available will be limited though, I think.
I will reiterate - I don’t know the details behind the idea and I’m only sharing how I think it could be done. Also - it seems to me it’s mostly oort stone/shards oriented as this is where people struggle the most (keeping portals open). I don’t know where it could go if established and ran for a while - what types of the market it could cover and to what extent and whether it would be a good or a bad thing (although that would also depend on personal perspective).
Lol, i’m gonna stop responding now. You’re inventing ways to spin this positively that haven’t been said. You can keep changing what you’re saying to try and spin this a certain way, but none of what you’re saying has actually been said in the OP.
The facts of OP are simple:
Don’t join the guild = you’re an unfair shop
Join the guild = you get all the sales on the market
Don’t join the guild = people won’t buy from your shop
join the guild = you do get sales.
As I said, I see potential and share how I see it could go and work. I didn’t come up with the idea, but I am responding to it and to your (or others) point of view.
Also, because I type fast and react to angles I didn’t see at first, obviously I try to find ways to re-invent the concept. It’s not spinning things… spinning requires some dishonest intent which I don’t have here.
I don’t know where this idea can go and how it can look, but I find it interesting the same I find this interesting:
Call it what you want but this falls under free market economics. Think of it like a business opening to compete that has decided their competitive advantage will be lower, fair, consistent prices in order to drive customers.
In general, I’m in favor of this idea from @Xaldafax. We don’t agree on a lot of things but I do trust him and believe this to be well-intentioned and worth a go. I don’t really play Boundless much anymore since it’s basically abandoned and there are too many other games that scratch the same itch now, but if I do return at any point, I’d love to join this.
One thing that will need guarded against is predatory sellers who have enough coin to simply continuously buy out certain shop stands from this market only to resell at a much higher price. To combat this, I think you’ll need to just be diligent about monitoring the shop stand landscape (via BUTT if it’s still actively being updated) to ensure we catch those doing this predatory practice and put them on blast. If BUTT is active still, it wouldn’t be too hard to write a script that can check for such situations.
There was a shop owner back in the early days of Raxxa that had a shop that was locked and only open on thursday through saturday. But had discovery on. I remember it took a visit from James to get it fixed.
I keep my prices pretty fair and usually within 1-3 coins of what it says on BUTT. I don’t need to join a specialist guild to keep selling. If no one buys my stuff, I’ll just go back to making doors and minting them for money.
I wasn’t saying it dog on Boundless but to point out to @Collussus that “losing playercount” is a pretty weak argument against anything related to the game.
The only real solution I see is what I have seen in other games. Unfortunately it would take some development and a game update. I have seen where the market is based on average price. It can only move up or down a small percent by market volume and pricing. So an item may start out at say 500 coin. You could only sell the item at like 525 on the high side and 475 on the low. If the volume of the item got more to one end or the other then the buy/sell window would go up or down. So if that item had more sellers selling at 475 then the window would move to 500/450 and on the other side if more were selling at 525 then it would go to 550/500. It kept everyone in the same window. The issue for us is forged items that while they may be say a diamond hammer can have many variations due to forging. But all base items in the knowledge base could be controlled this way. They would have to start everything at what they feel would be a base starting point for each item as well.
There are a lot of replies and I wasn’t able to keep up honestly. I apologize for that and will try to go back through again to clarify points. Right now I’m just going to reply kind of to everything so far that I have comments on. Thanks for the discussions (neg or positive) and at least talking about it. All info (yes even neg) is being evaluated to help improve the idea.
So, either we can have positive or negative interactions. I don’t know why you are choosing to keep it negative. Yes, in history there are cases of bad alliances, there are also cases of GOOD alliances. I’m a good person so I will be pushing for a good alliance. If you don’t want to support that then, I’ll make sure to no longer respond to your posts.
A history example of a GOOD alliance: The Hanseatic League, a powerful merchant alliance in Northern Europe, operated from the 13th to 17th centuries. By pooling resources and standardizing trade practices, the League reduced costs for member merchants, enabling them to lower prices for goods like timber, fish, and cloth. For example, by 1350, their efficient shipping networks and bulk purchasing in cities like Lübeck and Hamburg cut trade costs significantly, making goods more affordable across the Baltic and North Sea regions.
Basically, yes. This is no different that what already happens in EACH guild and among friends already. This is no different than people that join in groups and aggregate prestige so they can beat another settlement. I’m just putting a facing guild over everything with clear stated ethics, integrity, values, beliefs listed that people can join. This helps the buyer know which sellers have these views and can more easily find shops to spend money at because there is a guild book there.
Why do you continue to attack? I understand YOUR point but you are incorrect in your evalution my comment. The key word in my statement is RISK. I’m for fair prices and trying to bring transparency to the market so that buyers have better options. You are attacking me, instead of agreeing with my beliefs and values. So, if a buyer has MY values they will visit my shop likely and not yours. If a buyer has YOUR values they will visit your shop and not mine. I’m betting more buyers want transparency and fair prices so you not agreeing and just attacking my for my views actually DOES RISK your game income. I reached out with open heart and willingness to try to help the community and you are just picking select words and sentences to attack instead of seeing the bigger picture. Please actually step back and try to see this in a good value mindset and not just an attack one.
This ultimately is where the power is and I fully agree it is up to them. I’m just trying to give them an easier way to see what shops commit to that CONSISTENTLY and are not just playing “pricing games” in BUTT. I do hope you consider the option of joining so others might see - but obviously you don’t have to.
I was trying to keep it simple and in game. Also, I have no plans to start trying to force prices or anything. It always was open to input and to keep an idea of free market concepts. It makes no sense to micromanage prices.
Yes, older players like me remember that and this is part of the concept and a key issue trying to solve. This helps keep every person from having to deal with the maangement because it centralized it.
Maybe I should have just hired you as my spokesman before I posted it. Honestly, I did consider reaching out via PM with the idea before release since we go WAY BACK. But, I wanted it out there for consumption ASAP whether it succeeds or ultimately fails. It is all about the discussion and conversation generated around the topic that is critical.
As you know, you can never perfectly wordsmith something to please all people in a highly contentious idea as this. I had already spent a lot of time on it and testing things that I just wanted out there. Whatever I did people were going to attack or complain or find something they wanted to argue on. Yes, a lot has been done with Oort and I commend all that helped. I’m just trying to provide another layer that many helps cause it with other things and ensures the prices STICK. I hoping people can stop nitpicking the nuances and see the larger goal and participate…
Yes, this could have been worded better. I assumed people would get the context that I was talking about people that didn’t already HAVE FAIR PRICES. Shop owners and those with good values and prices wouldn’t have been hurt by this and I think everyone is being too critical here.
I appreciate the kind words. I guess I assumed enough people knew me well enough like you, that they’d get the bigger picture and not got caught up in their own shop identity. The guild wasn’t going to be “bullish” at all. It was going to be clear about its BELIEFS and VALUES and hopefully that would draw a lot of buyers in the long run. Also, by disagreeing and finding common ground we make something much better!
I appreciate this greatly, Dhusk! I admit seeing you had responded gave me reservations on even looking at the thread considering our past arguments. But, overall I know we both loved this game and tried to make it the best we could from different directions. I do hope we can close that gap more between us over time. As this grows your input will be welcome. I’m glad you got the larger concept here.
If that’s all it takes to leave the game I get the feeling you were already looking for an excuse. No judgement on my end, I left for a long while thinking the game wasn’t even running anymore based on the steam page.
Personally I think keeping oort prices low is good for the game because it’s required to keep the universe connected in a significant way. Not sure a guild is the best way to manage that but to each their own.
I might know if I know you read it all lol
Honestly, I did consider reaching out via PM with the idea before release since we go WAY BACK. But, I wanted it out there for consumption ASAP whether it succeeds or ultimately fails. It is all about the discussion and conversation generated around the topic that is critical.