Oh, seems I missed that sentence, I see it now 
But the value would go down if you could fix a forged tool with just a bar. Supply and demand and that jazz.
“Generally, low supply and high demand increase price and vice versa.”
The demand would indeed go down if you can repair with just the bars. So we would have a large supply, and low demand, so in that case some people will drop the price as you are suggesting will happen, and I agree. But the actual value of the item is higher now since it will last longer than X number of hits. In the long run superior forged tools will become quite expensive, and the supply will stay low since they are not very easy to make. The demand won’t completely disappear because consumers will be looking for a tool that is just “that little bit better” than what they have.
Regardless, the higher volume value will shift into the materials market, and out of the forged market. Which wouldn’t be a “breaking of the economy” but rather a shift.
Clarifying since I quoted you - Fiffer13’s system did include a repair cost, addressable in coin or time.
Or that. Moving ‘dev give’ to live would handle it I guess.
EDIT: Look i’m done you guys are giving good advice and I’m not against the idea expressed in the title if it’s balanced in. But ‘legitimate’ balance into the existing game isn’t what the OP is advocating for here.
After talking to Biv in the past I feel like he just swung by again and wanted to vent. And here’s a bunch of people legitimately trying to help. Again.
This and a couple of other points here are why I’m posting at all. It’s not true. He’s turned down many offers of trips, tools, everything. He doesn’t want HELP. And he doesn’t want free stuff if everybody isn’t getting their stuff free. It’s not that kind of a thread.
Maybe the chrysominter will help. It still requires time. It doesn’t really answer the time problem for people that aren’t looking to buy things, except opening up more travel.
See you for the farming release.
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I’d argue that the forged market is already closely tied to the material market since forging costs a lot of materials. And if you could get unlimited use from a tool, you’d need to buy a perfect tool/weapon once, then all you need is gems/bars to fix it. There wouldn’t be a better tool that you could buy.
And If the amount of bars to fix is equal to making a new base hammer, the demand for gems/bars wouldn’t change at all, but forge materials would plummet. Who needs beans etc anymore then? So compared to what we have now, there would indeed be a net decrease in material demand while supply stays the same. That’d be on top of the massive decrease in forged tool demand, while supply again stays the same.
edit: Would like to clarify that despite what the arguments make it look like, I’m not really for or against the suggestion and only pointing out what probably would happen if it became reality.
A fair argument, beans I believe are used in other things besides just forging ingredients, but their value might go down (we do have a rock bottom established now thanks to the barrel of coins).
This is part of the reason I’d favor the second suggestion about “using materials for spins” to repair). In that system, for the higher cost tools especially, the cost to repair would actually be much higher than making a new unforged tool (in most cases). I mean a diamond hammer has like 2000 dura for instance (I don’t remember exact numbers), under the second suggestion we would have to spend no less than 10 spins, if each was perfect, and as many as 50 spins if we hit poor each time. 3 spins per mat, means minimum of 4 refined diamonds to fix (nearly double the amount needed to mass craft 1 avg out), and up to 20 refined diamonds if you always “miss” the target (quite expensive compared to just buying a new unforged one).
That system doesn’t fix the forging mats not being used much though I suppose. Perhaps a few new mats could be included in the cost? to balance out the other mats your skipping out on needing more of? Perhaps a Forge preservation paste, makes it so you can repair forged tools, and costs 2 of each base forging ingredient to craft (base compound, gum, paste, etc).
In addition maybe you might need to use some kind of “balancing gum” that stablizes the “heated up” weapon which practically would just be a default item all repairs would need a little of. That could require any number of raw materials, and could have tiers for each weapon to increase the cost of repairing expensive weapons (like needing shimmering orbs, bitter beans etc).
In the end, I don’t see us getting a repair system either way. I would like one, especially if it added game-play elements like the spinning wheel mini-game idea. But it seems to be a lot of work for what feels like little gain. If it is too complicated nothing changes because no one will use it. If its too simple it could anger more people than it would please.
That sounds more balanced tbh, forgers would have to shift their shop’s to be more focused around repairs then. If they took in the same materials/ingredients to repair a weapon/tool as it would to forge a new one the economy theoretically should stay the same. So basically the idea is to switch focus from forging to repairing, and making repairs be skill based? Could the same be achieved by just making the forge skill based? 
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Yes, I do believe the idea of a skill based minigame could be applied to the forge system. Even the exact one I mentioned, just the type and level of compound would determine how many points each zone would grant.
I don’t mind the forge system as is, but I do know a skill based minigame is what a lot of players crave. So when suggesting a new system we would interact with tools I like to keep that in mind.
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in aquatopia people go on breaks all the time
when they wonna come back they got our little community to fall back on no begging involved
doesnt repairing tools deletes the point off forging mining for and selling tools
also if ya wonna go exo world just find someone thats going there i think if you open up discord are in a few channel our forum youle find someone to catch a ride fast
EDIT: we can also use fiffers ideas maybe but i dont have time to read this entire book 
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Yeah, I tend to write books, sorry about that. I have a couple novels I’ve written for sale (not about economics or game mechanics so no worries there 
).
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was talking about the entire forum page lol
oh, 
I guess that is true. I am always afraid that I post too big of text walls, I try and break them up but honestly it gets out of hand 
i like your posts
there easyr to read then others 
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Tbh, I did take a fair bit of time off. And had barely anything when I started to get back into it.
By now my new basement is nearly done, I have coins to buy me 3x3 AOE tools for any planet.
How organized weekly hunts are a great thing, grap a few revive brews (they a are cheap as) and just tag along. I don’t know of any group that would complain about another body, which spawns bigger meteroids, sell the oort after and in about 1.5 to 2 h you have above 30k in coin. Enough for 3 to 4 (depends where you buyt T6 one shoot hammers). And this is on T4 hunts, so one point protection needed nothing else.
Yes, if you just want to do it solo-play the grind can be mind boggling.
Plus @Biv I know you are living next to me, and since I am rebuilding and in need for some low mats, if you want to collect them for me, we can get to a decent price. For both of us.
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I think that some kind of repair mechanic with diminishing returns or increasing costs would be fine. It would be especially nice if you could spec into repair skill or something. I think that could create a service market for repairing things and make people think about wether or not a tool is worth repairing or if it’s time to just trash it because it’s too expensive/difficult to repair at that point. Not to compare boundless too much to minecraft, but I would like a repair system to be similar to the way you can only repair an enchanted item so many times in minecraft before the repair cost becomes too high to pay. Either way, I’m not upset with the way tools are in Boundless. I just think this might be a helpful middle ground solution.
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Too lazy to read but repairable gear would break the economy even further (tools no longer an item sink). Only way I could see it working is if the repairs cost more than making and forging a new one.
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Something like this could work, just allow merge same or higher rank tool to repair 20-33% durability. And tools having possibility to have 10-20 times possibility to get repaired like some games do.
Yeah, costs should be high enough to look for forged item deals. About skills maybe something like spanner skill and crafting skill of required item
Still instead of adding repairing, I would be more interested to see option for players to refine their tools to be aoe without forge: for example take 9 hammers to machine to make it all adjacent, having some augments, allow skill to make own aoe pattern with smart stack system and hold that in hand same time etc… In the end this issue seems to be mostly about aoe tools after all.
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Well, this conversation went in different directions than I expected.
I’ve had some time to ruminate about this and figure out exactly what my complaint is. Why is it that I’m having so much trouble jumping back in? Why does it feel so daunting? And what is the solution?
Repairing gear may not be the best option. The more I read the discussion, the more I see the potential problems. Though the diminishing returns suggestion is a good one.
But the best way to implement it that people seem to be leaning toward is either a minigame…something we don’t really have aside from, IMO, the deplorable forging system. So that would seem unlikely.
The second is using those same high end mats to repair the gear…which wouldn’t really be worth it. Mass crafts will still be mass crafts. If you are going to do that, just build a new weapon.
So maybe that is not the solution. And I’m not really sure what is. The issue is time sink. How do you reduce the amount of time you go from zero to gear that lets you prance around a T7 without concern?
One person mentioned “getting to lvl 50 and then having access to everything”. That is the extreme end of the curve, but starts to hit on it.
If you are lvl 10 or 50…the grind never changes. An AOE hammer with a persistent pie doesn’t get more useful the higher level you get. I don’t remember exactly what level my miner is. It think something like lvl 37 (he’'s been stuck there for a while thanks to death penalty) But the amount of time he spends grinding for the same mats hasn’t changed since he mostly maxed out his basic skills.
You grind for X amount of time to get A
You use A to grind for Y amount of time to get B
You use B to grind for Z amount of time to get C
When you run out of A, B and C, the grind starts again from scratch.
I’m kind of talking in circles here because I’m not sure what point I’m talking around to. I’m having trouble even identifying the problem that needs to be fixed.
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I’d also like to quickly touch on an issue that has been brought up several times, and that’s the various offers to help.
I hope everyone understands how much I appreciate it…every time. This is totally on me.
I guess you can call it a fear of commitment. The idea of scheduling a play time with someone gives me cold sweats, lol. Knowing that the other person is taking time out to be there and that I’m now committed to showing up and can’t change my mind without messing up the other person’s plans makes me antsy. Even if I had planned on playing anyway. I don’t know why it makes me so uncomfortable, but I’ve never had a regular gaming group and avoid MP in all games for that reason…which is so odd since I’m an extremely sociable person IRL.
So I hope no one took it personally or thought I was just brushing them off. I keep telling myself I’m going to work past this mental block but never manage it for long, lol.
Another side note, I often hate how my posts sound. I have an odd, casual way of speaking that can often come off as petulant and whiny whenever I talk about an issue in depth online. It just doesn’t translate to text well.
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Thx for clarifying, Biv. Your posts are well thought out and helpful (imo). Still happy to enchant gear for you at Adult HQ, Bangtan Forge; and of course, no pressure. 
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This is the problem with allowing people who are lower levels to use AOE hammers. You lose the sense of the grind decreasing.
When I started, I got most my gems with a slow iron hammer for 100+ hours. You can bet with AOE hammers the grind definitely got 10x easier.
Because there are no level limits on using gear, it sounds like you jumped straight ahead to end-game, so naturally, it seems like the grind stays the same.
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