Every ingredient needs 17 other ingredients from the same or a different machine with annoyingly long crafting times. If you have enough gold you just craft a SS of everything but for normal people you craft until you run out of X, then try to craft X but it needs Y and Z, so you craft Y just to notice that Z needed the same ingredients…
It’s nearly impossible to calculate the costs because not only can’t you not know exactly how many of each thing you need in advance it’s also difficult to calculate the cost of a paste or something.
… and everything needs glass… you’re going to dig tons of sand or silty soil. I wanted to be a forger, if I wanted to dig soil all day long I would have become a grave digger.
Forging needs a ton of hunt drops which are expensive and annoying to obtain if you don’t hunt
You can’t include all available pastes. That might be a cool limitation for experts but it means you must know exactly what you’re going to need and can’t really experiment.
Some of the cooler ingredients are way to expensive to be used (roadrunner feather stuff) - there shouldn’t be cool and useful stuff that you can’t afford and the work around is a more annoying process
After you’ve filled your deck you can start forging…but you’ve probably already lost interest because it’s now 4 hours since you started crafting pastes…
Because of the way boundless works you can’t just improve a tool a bit, you have very specific boons you have to hit. A tool needs AE level 4, level 1, 2, 3 or 5 is not a bit better but useless! In addition it needs damage 8, damage 1-7 is useless. But that just allows nothing less but a perfect forge. Which means you’re going to abort about 90% of your forges to start again.
The idea “spin the wheel and deal with it” is cool, the actual implementation is “spin the wheel and restart unless it landed perfectly” which is incredible dumb.
And the prices charged for forged tools is silly low. I can make more money spinning the minter which doesn’t need concentration… and is more fun.
I have taken 2 breaks from game mainly to Forging. The Ratio of RNG to the Expensiveness of Forging is on the unbalanced side of things I believe. Some days could cost a fortune and return a pile of ■■■■. Too much RNG for the price of Forging i think is the problem I have with it.
I honestly can not stand the forge.
Every time I try to forge some tools I get frustrated, and I end up buying something here and there or just use the janky-ily forged hammer I made.
I am not terrible at forging, it is the huge RNG factor with no way of bettering your chances or skilling to “become better” at forging.
Actually I would claim that there are enough forgers but it’s hard to find where they are. Cuetz’s complaint is that there are enough forgers willing to undercut him and flooding the market that he doesn’t forge anymore.
I have tons of 3x3 hammers that sit around
The biggest buff to forging that I think would be great for the game is for forged items to be easily searchable on shop finder/BUTT.
“Should forging wood/stone/metal gear require the same methods/resources as forging top-of-the-line gem or lucent gear?”
It currently does not.
And I do feel that there is a difficulty progression depending on what you want to forge.
I do agree that in the current system it is not worth forging anything under gem (imo) because they use the same type of ingredients. The fix for this, imo, could be as simple as tweaking effectiveness so that wood/stone can max out at 200% earlier (lower skill point reqs, lower centraforge reqs), or even go beyond 200% to some degree.
You have to use the same forge ingredients on wood/stone/metal gear as you do to make gem gear.
Effectiveness levels are easier to reach on lower level gear though.
Related to my earlier comment, I also think that the way centraforge coils matter should be re-thunk. If you’re forging wood/stone as a noob, lets not require centraforge coils at all to reach 200% effectiveness… maybe coils can work similarly as Power: you need a # of coils to forge an item depending what its made of, but it has no effect on effectiveness.
Erm, hopper cores were disappearing left and right at 2000c a piece and wildstock trophies brought $$$ too. That was one reason I enjoyed hunting so much lol
Yes, with the following caveat. To efficiently forge wood/stone/metal you would prefer to use cheaper ingredients and you may tolerate more RNG in your methods. To efficiently forge gem you would prefer to use pricier ingredients since the benefit per ingredient is higher and you may tolerate less RNG in your methods. I certainly use different methods depending on what I’m making.
The other caveat is that if you’re willing to allow wood/stone to max out at 400% effectiveness instead of 200%, then there will be a substantial difference in how you forge wood/stone vs. gem. Currently for gem if you use a boon compound that gives 800 points on paper, which is 1600 with 200% amplification, you are wasting 600 boon points by overflowing the bar. So if you max out wood/stone at 400%, the same would hold true for 400 boon point compounds. So simply by tweaking effectiveness, you have made it actually wasteful to use the exact same resources on gem as wood/stone: you will always use lower level boon compounds on wood/stone.
I don’t think it should go that route. Effectiveness is fine imo - they don’t need to tweak that.
Instead, I think they need to make the recipes/RNG match the gear. You shouldn’t need advanced coils to make a 3x3 AOE iron hammer and you shouldn’t need invigor 2 or decon to fix things if you’re just forging a stone tool (for example).
One way the RNG could match the gear, is through gums
For stone/iron/etc. the miss chance could be reduced or removed (when you have special gum and you want AoE but you get an ease boon instead) so maybe you just use 1 gum instead of 3-4 for gem.
Indirectly reduces the number of deconstructs as well.
I agree it would be helpful if they weren’t listed with clean gear. This causes several issues.
I’ve seen some mistakes lately where nice forged items were accidentally put with a stack of clean items at a low price. I’ve also noticed not all forged gear gives the little gold text description when you mouse over them. Some do, some don’t.
They should have a more obvious visual/text indicator that they are forged. This would probably allow them to be listed separately in the shop scanner. In the same way that refined or filigree metal blocks are listed separately from compact metal blocks. Their state has changed and usually so has their value.
