Market and Mall owners treated unfairly - contracts should be allowed


#1

@james yes, I know this is long, but it is important, so not just james but everyone please try to read it.

As a shop owner I feel I have a obligation to two different groups. Those who purchase items at my shop. I should do my best to keep it stocked so they can buy what they need. That if I can’t keep it stocked I will put up a notice that it has been delayed, maybe why (sick, death in family, job, whatever) so they know I am just not ignoring them.

The other group is just as important. And that it the true owner of the Market, Mall or wherever my shop is at unless it is on my base.

I have two shops, at G. Mall I check it every two or three days, I will admit that I don’t as often as I should be after months of doing so twice a day and selling very little I go that it is a miracle if I do sell something and if I can I will restock it as soon as I can.
At Nova Golda Market, I have a obligation to @AeneaGames to keep it stocked not just for those who buy what I sell, but to ensure that the space is not wasted. At the mall with all the empty lots, I’m not keeping someone from a spot, espeically as I am not on the main street. At NG Market, my spot could go to another player who wants to set up a shop and that in some ways affects her as she gets footfall from players visiting my shop.

What is the problem and why is it such a big deal? Because she loses footfall, recognition of having a good place to shop at, confidence from those looking to find items at a trusted locations.

When she had a problem at her other market, she was forced to shut it down. I’m worried we will lose a great player who has a great Market, a great place to find what I and many other need because players have, in a couple shops, not been restocking it or even stocking it at all.

My suggestion is that Boundless should have some boundaries to Protect those who have Markets, Malls, or any place where shop are placed from a player abusing those lots.

These caretakers should be able to have a contract that states that if the lot “renter” is unable to keep their lot stocked, that if a certain period of time has passed and not been notified, that if it is not stocked on a somewhat regular basis, they have the right to put that players items, the stone, wood, whatever is used to decorate it into a storage area that they can get into.

I’m not going to go into who was right or wrong in what happened there, but those of us who had shops there suffered from it, loss of sales, some may have lost items they never collected when the notice when up that it was shutting down. There was I believe plenty of notice but for someone who might have been going through a crisis at that time and missed it, they could have lost items.

Players should Not be allowed to take advantage of these Market, Mall and other locations of shops because they either don’t care, are too caught up in their life events, or are just being spiteful.

I had a couple shops at another small mall, because many had promised the owner that they would set up there after NL Market closed, but then didn’t, I lost out because of the lack of shops that attracted customers, so twice I and the persons who had shops and the one who had in good faith created the lots lost out and I suspect he quit playing out of frustration and other reasons. That was not fair to him, me or others who had committed and went to the trouble of setting up shops.

If anyone agrees with me, and even if you don’t, please state how you feel, respectfully, politely, no bashing of anyone who has been on both sides of this problem, no personal airing of grievances toward a individual, please, just what you think could be of helpful, either way for shop owners, for the player who has created the Market, Mall or other places for shops to be set up; and even for the shop owner who has set up a shop and hasn’t bee able to restock. What do you think could be done to help both sides.

What can we do to protect them so we don’t lose more great shopping areas.

I know that Aenea has had some health issues, surgery, treatments that are painful and she still has a long recovery ahead of her, more treatments, more pain, more negative side effects. I deal with chronic pain that has me at time unable to even play, sitting, standing, walking, sleeping is difficult, now I have to use a cane to keep from falling down. Pain management told me that since I was having a few hours less of pain a month (like two or three hours a day for maybe one or two days a week is a great improvement) they could stop treatment, so now back to constant pain, no sleep. Doctor is upset and in process of finding another pain management center.
Because of what she is going through, and to some extent of what I am dealing with we both at times, she more than me, are not able to play like we want. But we both still try to make time to fulfill our commitment to our customers, to others who had a shop there and me to her, she has been a great help to me in area and gave me strength at times when I was really going through a dark time.

She needs our support, help and understanding when she can’t restock, just I can understand when others can’t restock. But there can come a time when we all have to make a decision, how long is long enough for us to go, I need to close my little shop so she can let others have it and be willing to let her store the items for me or move them to my base or a friends base until I can get back to playing.

Feedback, help, guidance, suggestions, all nice and friendly, please. No name and shaming, no pointing fingers at anyone, just what you think can help.


#2

Hey @Janna55 I just thought I’d stop by to say thanks for being you. I’ve never interacted with you in-game or been you your shop(s) but I appreciate what you bring to this community.


#3

I agree with pretty much all of your post @Janna55. As you probably know, I have a shop of my own at the NG market, right next to your own stall, and unfortunately I don’t really have that much to stock there, for one reason or another as I’ll explain below, and sometimes I just don’t find a good opportunity to restock something. :confused:

The problem of wanting to restock and actually not being able to do so is very real for me. I do re-coin my baskets often at coin converters, actually; part of my problem with restocking the actual shop is that I don’t have a lot that I’m willing to sell these days.

The things that I am willing to sell, are rather generic and not stuff I have a lot of anyway.

And relating to the main point of the topic, some of my baskets in my request shop are stuff I don’t necessarily need so much of, but that I keep buying to keep attracting both footfall and general interest in the area.


Part of the issue then, in my opinion, is that most of the stuff we can all sell is pretty generic. Generic stuff can only sell so much until everyone has what they actually need (look at coils, for instance), and I think that special/custom-crafted stuff like forged gear is quite important, especially in the absence of other market/economy systems that can boost interest in specific markets/malls.

Custom creations/blocks and etc might help with generating interest for areas? But the fact that not everyone forges but a lot of people mine is probably relevant in this discussion too.

I might have more thoughts tomorrow, but was a pretty long day for me and no room for more thinking on this just at the moment… :frowning:


#4

You can arrange contracts/agreements/rentals with beacon permissioning, but that relies a lot on trust. Of course shop owners might be hesitant to give full control of all their stuff to a mall owner and risk losing it all over a disagreement.

Some sort of beacon escrow/contract system would be great to protect both sides. But of course that takes someone to moderate it, and i wouldnt blame the devs if they wanted to avoid that at all costs.

If we could all play nice and trust eachother then a system like that wouldnt be needed. If its needed thats a strong indication that the community cant play nice and trust eachother.

Would be cool to see that kind of thing community moderated. Like an “upstanding citizen” guild that had complete trust and could broker these sorts of things and play community peacekeepers. Honestly think thats a pipe dream though. There will always be 2 sides to every disagreement and somewhere along the line someone will have a different opinion.


#5

I wasn’t thinking of anyone specific, although my examples would be a lot more from G. Mall that NG Market. There are so many there that are to me footfall traps that I seldom shop there. When I have to go all the way into a shop to see what is at the back of the room, can tell that no new stock has been put in since the shop owner moved in, at the beginning of the mall, I wish they could be tossed out.

But that is not my call, and I don’t know the whole story so they could have a valid reason.

As for what is common and doesn’t sell, you would be surprised. I at times am in desperate need for fragment, olivine and others, sacs from critters, even eyes that it seems many have few problems in getting but think they are worth a lot of coins. 1800 for hopper cores? One shop in a mall has them for 500c and one further down wants 1,800 coins. I worry the one with the lower price will raise it, but have found others with just as fair a price so hope that their sales will keep them at that fair price.

In trying to gather mats for pies and other food, mats for forging I seem to be running short in a lot of areas.

I can understand how it can be hard to keep up, I think that maybe having just a few of the common items says that you are paying attention, switch one a week, put out two or three that are common and next week switch to another two or three and rotate them, you will be surprised at what someone desperate needs. Blood was a big need yesterday, I actually had to go last night and buy blood to make mats for me to sell ! Last week was out of soil, of all things, and desperately needed it to make glass for my mats, have to have glass to put the forging mats in, never realized how much glass I would go through! Sheesh ! ! LOL

Sorry, went off topic, but sometimes what seems generic to one is a big need for others, to make my mats for forging, simple things such as sap, syrup, blood, fragments, fleshy and inky leaves, mantles, fresh and ancient essence can be time consuming to gather. Then the hassle of eyes, sacs, all the orbs and the shimmering ones are the hardest, reactive lamella, which really isn’t that hard to get if you have protection for level 5 and up planets, the weeping mushrooms that you find on glaciers/ice are easy to gather lamella from; you just have to dodge the critters. For me, it is finding the time, not the ability. Hard ones are the trophies, sacs, eyes, and shimmering orbs are the challenge.


#6

Bad idea… there is no way to prevent this “power” of said mall owner to simply decide they want you out.


#7

If I was given the power to do anything to merchants with shops in the mall, I wouldn’t do anything. It’s not right.

This game is for fun, enjoyment, escaping the real world & it’s troubles, etc. A player requiring other players to maintain certain stock or inventory levels would suck a ton of fun & enjoyment out of the game. I would never try to make people feel bad/guilty about not maintaining their shop/build/space. It wouldn’t be fun for me & it sure wouldn’t be fun for them.

Some people can’t dedicate as much time to this game as others can, some people start doing other things, try other market areas, are waiting for big updates, etc. There’s all kinds of reasons that people have low/no stock. Some people take much longer to plan/build their shops than others. Their beacon, their plots, their shop, their life. I have no business telling anyone else how to play.

Same with other markets & cities. If you explore, you’ll see a lot of unfinished roads, abandoned workshops & bases, etc.

Game studios can’t force people to play as much as other players.


#8

this is my thinking has well right now has its set up if you give someone perms for the first time on that beacon it says in the window “once you do this anything goes”

my understanding alot if not most mails have a "you need to keep regular stock or you get the boot…my only thing tho is just like how the current system can be abused i could see a escrow/contract system having the same problem i cant think of a easy way to set it up so say i could get a shop in a mail with the “contract” length being lets say a week then just doing nothing with the plot and the owner being unable to do anything about it


#9

I don’t like people telling me how to Boundless, so I’m not going to do it with others. I agree no one likes a dead store, and the kind thing to do would be not to get a shop you can’t keep stocked. And if you do have a shop you can’t keep up, then you should let it go and give the plots to someone.

But, we all get busy and many have good intentions. It’s a game and it’s supposed to be fun and stress free…

Eventually, beacons die and new people move in. (Plot 8 in Trior Coop is vacant… :wink:) so, in that way I choose not to let it get to me.


#10

I was thinking along the line of approximately three months. That is enough time for a player, generally, to have popped in and send a message that such and such has happened and they have to take time off.

I belong to another discord and we have had players who have had crisis happen and the majority have sent in a message either they themselves or even had a family member, son, daughter, partner to state such has happened. One person was in a life threatening accident yet her husband took the time to state that she was in the hospital, on life support, may not make it and didn’t know how long. I don’t remember how long it took and we didn’t hear for quite some time but she survived and was able to fully recover.
Another also ended up in the hospital, had complications and her son came on the day she was admitted and said mom’s in the hospital, don’t know how long. She was able to get on for a few minutes a few days later to state fell and broke my leg and injured my back, have to have surgery, be out for a while.

If a player can show up to get their footfall, they can post a message to someone that this has happened.

This is a different situation, maybe I am being too harsh, but I see both sides and for a large mall it may be easier, but you are hurting others by not being willing to pull out and let someone have your place. There are always malls, markets, shopping centers opening up, we just had several mentioned here on this forum of new mall, markets and more, be generous, nice, considerate and don’t hurt others in what I see as selfish and perhaps intentional spiteful behavior in staying in a shop area that others can use. The sites at the malls, at the markets could be closer and easier for that player to set up a shop in.

Maybe because my father owned three businesses, I learned quickly that you don’t hang on when you aren’t making money. He didn’t make a lot of money, but we did have enough to do okay,

This is a game, but in some ways, we play as if it is real and thinking of others, not just of yourself is important, at least to me. In a game where you play with others it affect them and it bleeds over into their real life that to me is inconsiderate, mean hearted (when done intentionally) and unfair to others.

I would have no problem if I stopped playing and @AeneaGames took my shop down, stored my items and let someone else have that spot, that to me is fair, I made a commitment and didn’t keep it, at least she would be considerate enough to store my belongings for me and let another player have a spot so they could make “money”.

I do understand @majorvex side, and I see her viewpoint and why she feels that way and that is great of her that she can be like that, I don’t agree with her, but I respect her right as it is her mall and she can run it however she wants.

Part of the problem is, we don’t know when a player has quit and plans to never return, if they had uninstalled the game and consider it a loss of money and won’t be back. But that shop, that road they build, that base that is sitting there with a GC beacon that will run for the year they paid for will keep another player from getting a prime location whether in a mall or near a city that others would love to have.

I have been playing this game for almost 10 months, that is pretty close to a year and I feel that if you have played for three months and have not ever put down a stand, returned to stock your stands, made no contact with the mall or market “owners” of what is going on, even just a line of “taking a break will be back in six months” you have given up the rights to have a shop there. But, that is my feelings and no one has to agree with me.

Gave two bases away to new players, told them they had three months to get plots to replace my plots, that I wanted the plots back, they could keep everything in it. Three months were up, tried to reach them, no contact, sent messages, no response. Sent messages of two weeks notice and I was removing the plots, tearing down the bases and taking what was there put it in storage, they had another month. They removed their first base, so I go they quit, they no longer have the right to my plots or what I gave them or what they left.

Harsh, maybe, but they gave up that right when they did not contact me any during that time, no message even here on the forum.

I feel a three month notice is enough, some will go it should be longer, some should be left alone and not touched, that is for each mall, market, or shopping area owners to decide, but I feel they should have the right to remove what has been left and no contact after three months and put in storage for another period of time, how long would depend on how much storage the owner will have.


#11

Or just go to aquas sunken mall.
We dont wait for things come into the game… we invent them.


#12

If you save/collect someone’s expired things & wait to see if they come back - that’s a :heartpulse: nice, courteous thing that you’re doing imo. You have every right to set a time limit on how long you are willing to hold those items.

In MMOs, people will come & people will go. People generally play MMOs off & on for many years. A lot will take large breaks. Sometimes we’ll be surprised at who lets their places go/expire. You never know what’s going on with someone. If you’ve been playing a game with someone for awhile & they go M.I.A, I think we get genuinely concerned & curious as to if a person is ok, what is going on, etc. It’s nice if they come back or if they pop in and let everyone know they’re ok & maybe what’s going on (but they don’t have to).

I would hope that people don’t feel stressed or pressure to login to a game to give an update about their IRL situation if it’s really bad. Sometimes people just move on from a game. Sometimes they need to take a break & do something else. Sometimes they have a lot going on & need to put all of their attention & energy into what they are dealing with.

We’d love for things to never change & people to never leave, but things happen & change is inevitable.

Even if I had a brain fart one day & decided to go all gangsta on everyone in the mall…what can I really do? Nothing really. With our current permissions/beacons/abilities, there’s not much I can do. And no one would want to play with someone that is always judging what they are doing or telling them what/how/when to do it.

I don’t know what the right solution is to the whole empty-shops-and-abandoned-places issue. Abandoned places do expire eventually or get taken by someone else. Maybe BL could consider adding few NPCs or some type of universal market menu that we can use to buy/sell/trade - and remove some of the difficulty of trying to find items that we want to buy. I dunno. Maybe they have something planned after the roadmap is complete. I couldn’t say :woman_shrugging:


#13

o6bb8jjx8or0


#14

just did sugestion on this
i hope the aquatopia sunken town mall system can show the dev’s what we need
i forwarded all details to our system to the dev’s i hope they come see how they can make it less off a pain to setup a system to improve mall’s


#15

You know, I would already be happy if beacons in markets/malls do have a different set of rules where after the shop owner not visiting for xx amount of time the beacon ownership reverts back to the market/mall owner. Then the items can get stored for when the shopkeeper comes back one day.

Problem is that right now people can stop playing even tho they have months (or years in one case in New Leyden) of Gleam Club and the empty shop is just sitting there. I absolutely get that real life can get in the way, heck I know that very well actually, but I would like it if people would at least share they won’t be around for a while. I also don’t mind people then needing months to get back to an active shop and keep it around for that long, just wish I knew what was going on. Of course I get that when certain things happen a game can be the least of your worries, but let’s face it, plenty of times they just decided to take a break and just didn’t share it…

So these new beacon rules is just for the cases where people don’t get around to telling people what’s up whatever the reason may be…


#16

It sure would be nice if the beacons of dead shops at the Waterfront Outlets would just expire. Or any mall for that matter :expressionless:
People who just quit playing and for some reason their beacon still wont expire


#17

The problem with all of this is how does the system know that someone is taking a break and let the person running the mall know or they did not let them know? There is not a way for the game to know what communications happened between players so do you end up giving the person who set up the mall the ability to remove a persons beacon, really for any reason they choose? Why should the game give any player the ability to remove the plots of another? If they fueled their beacon then did they not follow the rules of the game? If you give another player this ability to remove another’s beacon, what happens to what they had in the store?

Why is running a mall any different than any build in the game where players have to cooperate and sometimes people are people and for whatever reason they fail to do what they said they would do? Do you let the warden of a town have the same ability? So when I decide that I do not like what someone built, I just remove their beacon and they have no recourse?

I think this gets very bad very quickly. This is an MMO and we have to deal with other people and unless they are breaking the CoC, we will sometimes be disappointed in some of them. Any player that decides to engage in a cooperative venture be that a mall, settlement, or whatever is taking a certain risk.


#18

how you feel about my suggestion to have a alternative guild to run beacons the mall owner owns himself so nobody gets kicked off his land cause they dont own the land then they sorta sign a contract that they agree on eviction when owner feels like it
@Kal-El


#19

As I mentioned in that same post when a the shop owner hasn’t visited their own shop in xx amount of time the beacon reverts back to mall/market owner. If they have contacted the mall/market owner it can be just left there until they come back and beacon ownership can be transfered again.

I don’t see an issue with this at all. For the game it’s easy to determine if shopowner visited or not, it is already being tracked for footfall purposes anyway.

Only ‘scary’ thing left is trusting market/mall owner to keep the materials safe. Not sure why this would be a big issue and why you think it would be abused. Even if something on towards happens with the contents that’s only after shop keeper hasn’t visited their own shop for a while and which would then be something people learn quickly about that mall/market…

And no, it’s not deleting someone else’s beacon, the beacon is basically rented but original owner, market or mall owner, gives up any and all perms like its not theirs anymore UNTIL the shop keeper doesn’t visit the shop, then it reverts back…

Sure a system like this can be done already but then shop keepers never get perms as if they own the beacon. Just like the Aqua mall are doing now already, ha ent hwaes anything bad happend their either…


#20

Towns and hubs have this problem too. How would the game differentiate a mall, City, or Hub from other builds?