Reason to log in: Difference on forcing and encouraging players

I have returned (imagine sinister laugher) and i would like to talk about ‘‘a reason to log into the game’’ this is purely my personal opinion on the topic at hand. if you plan to read the entire thing then keep that in mind, and also point out which systems, ideas you like and dont like, also feel free to add your own points and systems.
the games i am going to use will mostly consist of f2p games, which is heavily a part of the negative side, so the rant will go pretty far around. we ready? great. lets do this.

‘‘Reason to log in: Difference on forcing and encouraging players’’

that is a rather odd title wouldnt you agree? but yes. the rant is about the reason to log in. i know i know, some will already think now ‘‘well hurr durr, you just log in to play’’ which is absolutely correct, however many gamers, including myself, have waaay too many games, so even though we might want to play a certain game, we might need that extra push to feel like ‘‘it is worth while’’ to log into the game.

the line between encouraging and forcing players to play is a pretty vague one at times, but the general idea is that some games will encourage you to enter a game (things like a daily win for mobas, daily quests. etc) and forcing players (putting limiations on how much a person can do in a certain timeframe)

for encouraging players

Elder scrolls online: Crafting Writ System:

The crafting writ system is not that old, but it is a great example of encouraging players to log in. it works as following.

The player picks a crafting style he wants to make writs for (blacksmith, clothing, woodworking. etc…) now every day the player can go to the crafting board and pick up his daily crafting writ. the writ will be a generated quest in which he has to make 2 times 3 different items, within the given players crafting range (if you can only make tier 1 you get tier 1 writ, tier 2 get tier 2. etc…)

the player will then get a quest looking like this

The player then goes craft the required items. when everything is crafted you have to move down to the docks where an award will await you. the reward is a exp for the crafting writ you used and then a ‘‘material box’’ for that crafting style. the material box have several different materials, also a great way to get the rarer ones.

(sorry for poor quality, was the only one i could find)

Reason for being encouraging rather than forcing:

The system is great, if you log in daily and do this, you get materials and crafting exp. however if i miss out i dont miss anything what so ever. and if i really want to level crafting then i could go from 0 to max within a day having the materials. so it is not the only way for players to craft, but it awards players for crafting daily.

Guild wars 2: Daily achievement system:

Man do i love this system. it is so simple, yet genius.

okay. so the idea of GW2’s achievement system was that there were 3 achievement types (in general)


The daily quest system always made it feel like a great reason to logging into the game, the game would pick 10 or so achievements from a predetermined set and you needed to complete 5 of the 10 to complete the daily achievement. some of these achievements were

Kill x creatures
Harvest x ingredients
Kill x different types of creatures
Kill x veteran creatures (slightly harder creatures)
Craft x items

and the iist goes on. when you completed the daily achievements you got achivement points for the counter. but the best thing was that you got ‘‘laurels’’ which was a form of currency you could use at a specific vendor to buy certain items such as companions. dyes. gear pieces and other good stuff

Daily win system

This system is mainly used in MOBA’s although they vary from game to game, they generally work the same, as a bait to get people playing the game on a daily basis.

League of Legends is one of the games which uses this system, it is pretty simple, every day you can play the game and get a daily win bonus. the bonus gives the players more IP (the ingame curency) almost the double amount actually, so it s a great way to encrouage getting online for the game.

Smite is also another moba with the system however they have changed it slighly. given a bonus amount of ingame currency for every different gamemode.

Other MMO’s actually also use this system to a certain degree, in most games a daily win in pvp modes will give more reward, this system could also translate into first time you complete a dungeon in that day you get more exp. it is a pretty broad system.

Daily Log:

i also imagine alot of people have seen this. it is used in a bunch of different games, mostly free 2 play games. the idea is that every day in a row you log in, you get a better reward, if you dont log in one day the counter will reset. some bigger games such as gw2 does it where you just dont lose your progress.

the system is great because of how simple it is, you dont need to do a ton of fancy stuff. you just have to get ingame and then you earned it. the trick is that when you are ingame alot of people feel like ‘‘well might as well play a bit since we are here’’ and the system have fullfilled its goal
Mixed systems:

automated timesinks:

i have an entire post dedicated to it here:

In short, it can be done really well or really poorly. the biggest example of pooly was the eso trait system, it wasnt bad, but the time scaled was absolutely whack (can be read about in the post)

Daily quests:

Most MMO players know these, one of the most wellknown MMOS ‘‘World of Warcraft’’ uses this system, and over time other MMO’s have started copying the system.

Since oort online is almost confirmed to not have quests it wont be a problem. however this is a system (as said) used in quite a bit of MMO’s they can be done really well. where you are encouraged to play every day, and then they can be done really poorly, in wow there is a certain mount where you need to farm dailies everyday for 3 months to get enough reputation with the thing. it is absolutely horrible.

Systems forcing players to play:

I will use 2 systems which really bothers me,

Energy system:

ah yes, the energy system. most likely the most annoying and money grapping system ever made, this is commonly found on IOS games, sadly it seems some games on pc thing that this system is actually good and have adopted it.

the energy system for those who dont know, is a way to get money on free IOS games. players use energy everytime they do an action for the game (building, entering a fight… etc…) when players run out of energy they cannot play the game anymore in that time energy will recharge naturally but you can ofc pay some money to get more energy instantly.

this is almost only for mobile games, and i dont think the dev team would ever do something like that, however it is worth a mention for a horrible system.

Trove gold system

Trove is another pretty great F2P voxel mmos, andi know that they have to make money, but this system was insanely frustrating.

In trove you get gold for use in the cashshop on classes or mounts from clearing dungeons. the system itself is really good. however there is a max amount of gold which a player can earn in a day. meaning that after you have hit that limit, you will for some magical reason, not get more gold for that day. which means if you want a new class you have to log back in and farm every single day.

This system is purely limits the amount gold which players can get over a time period. and there are no other ways to get gold ingame. this is basically saying ‘‘thanks for playing, we are not gonna reward you at all anymore for today’’ very very bad system

So for those who survived the rant. congratulations. i would like to hear thoughts on this. which systems do you think would work well with oort? did i miss some systems you think is worth mentioning?

as always. lets get a discussion going!


Jeah, the gw2 daily system was great. Gw1 had something similar at a later state bus was bound to quests. The way how gw2 managed it is also fitting into Oort well, cuz there are many ways of activity, so why not encourage the players with some nice bonuses. We just need to get clear about what we can get though the points or currency we get through them :wink:

I also like the XP boost of some games which you get when you logged off for a longer while. So when you log in you get double XP for a fixed amount. Something like this could also be made by a daily login bonus. May be auch a bonus gets greater if you rest in a bed (in your beacon). On this way we would also encourage people to build nice homes :wink:

I don’t like the way daily quests work in wow or other similar games,cuz it is frustrating to so the very same each day again. Would be better if the jobs are given out randomly like the daily activities in gw2.

To have some bigger targets for a week or month would also be cool and give long term encouragement :wink:

May be such stuff can also be made for guilds (on a weekly and/or monthly base). Gw2 also had such quests and I love it if also party playing is encouraged.

Oh yeah. rested exp is also a pretty great encourager ‘‘you havent been on for 48 hours. come play a bit and you will get double exp for a certain amount of skill points’’

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Along the lines of “well hurr durr, you just log in to play”, my usual reason for logging into games has always been to better my character. In terms of MMOs, this has always been to level up, acquire better gear, gather crafting materials, etc. In terms of Voxel games, I’ve always been a huge hoarder so I basically play just to gather materials to have for later. In terms of Oort, I definitely think the devs shouldn’t make it too easy to ascend to new world tiers or to take on the Titans, as these will provide reasons for playing. I’m sure they’re handling this appropriately.

However, I definitely agree that there needs to be some sort of end goal or something that is never quite achievable, or some reward system of some such, in order to keep players active. With something as open to creation as Oort, some of this will be handled by the community and player’s bonds with each other. But some of it will be dependent on some small system the devs introduce. Daily/Monthly rewards like in GW2 would be very interesting in Oort as it would allow players to focus on whatever they want to do. Whether that’s “explore 3 new worlds” or “make 10 trades” or “kill 5 different creatures” or w/e. Obviously, from a programming perspective different daily objectives would be easier to implement than others. But I’m also curious in what others think and I can’t wait to see the end result in-game!


Along these same lines and something I haven’t really seen before but would be interesting to introduce in Oort is enhancing certain stats or attributes. Increasing mining speed, movement speed, health, attack, etc. would be a nice bonus to give to players that are returning in addition to enhanced exp. It also still matches the logic behind rest bonuses (“Hey, you’re full of energy, use it for learning!” or “Hey, you’re full of energy, go out and do things!”).

This can be a bit of a gimmick, but for what it’s worth…


Personas are a method of describing the various segments of your intended audience **(in this case, the different types of gamers that find their way to Oort)**. Each persona has its own set of common background and goals. Identifying Oort personas may help uncover and clarify information regarding gameplay questions such as this one.
*Persona 1* – **The MMORPG Veteran** • Comes from games like World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online, The Secret World, Guild Wars, Tera, etc. • Enjoys building their character, exploring fantasy environments, playing cooperatively with other players, being in guilds, etc. • Ideas for engagement: Daily rewards, rested bonuses, new quest releases, ...?
*Persona 2* – **The Builder** • Comes from games like Minecraft, Cubeworld, ...? • Enjoys building in, crafting from, and exploring generated environments • Ideas for engagement: Hard to find materials, rewards for great builds, discovering rare phenomena, ...?
*Persona 3* – **The PvPer** • Comes from games like Rust, DayZ, Call of Duty, ...? • Enjoys fighting other players in a variety of environments and configurations. • Ideas for engagement: Modded servers that allow for a variety of combat experiences, ...?
*Persona 4* – **The Collector** • Plays a lot of games, is proud of their massive Steam collection, rarely if ever spends a lot of time on one game • Enjoys finding cool games that others haven't heard of • Ideas for engagement: Less about getting them to play, more about getting them to tell others about it, ...?
I'm literally making this up from nothing – give me a hand here! I think ideally you want to have 3-6 personas; who've I missed?

TLDR: Oort will best engage players by offering a variety of activities for a variety of player types.


i think we should just allow the combat players (THE REAL PLAYERS) to enslave the puny builders. MUHAHAHAHHA.

but i really dont think you can that easily put people into boxes. i agree there should be specialization, and i think it would be cool if you could pick one you stuck with, so say i get daily reward from crafting or i choose to get daily rewards from killing or whatever i choose. maybe allow something like that every day, so you have the daily quest thing be withing a certain field and reward that certain style. so if i am a crafter and a fighter i might do crafting daily 1 day to get rare mats and then the next i do the fighter daily to get better gear or whatever.

i think you can identify people to a certain extend, but be careful not to just say that every person will be either/or XD

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While there isn’t much I think could (or should) be applied from Destiny, there was a nice system that sent you a reward package the first time you participated in a public ‘event’ each day. How well you did in the event correlated to how good/much loot you received.

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He did say “a method”, not “the method”. I think there’s definitely some understanding from everyone going into a game like this that you’re going to have to dabble in a bit of each area even if you don’t want to. (i.e. Builders will need to fights to progress to different tier worlds to acquire new resources or Fighters will need to build shelter or somewhere to store items, etc.)

And I do like the idea you had, Zouls, about different daily reward specializations each day. It really makes it fair for everyone so that the reward system wouldn’t be unbalanced. In other words, allowing for someone who only builds to be on a level playing field compared to a jack of all trades who could easily complete any daily reward offered to them.

1: Quite immersion breaker to log in Oort and see daily task which magically gives you resources when done.

2: Yay, lets have dozen pop up menus in Oort and one for daily achievement system that also gives you magically stuff. All the stuff should be only findable / craftable in game.

3: Daily log-in reward system is really modern-day cancer and for some reason everyone uses it (it´s efficient way, lol) Also brings magically more stuff in game.

4: Do you want people to play like Oort like daily “farm run”? Farm run is term used in mmorpg Runescape and it means daily short visit to game to use timesinks and then log off. High level farming for example can take 16 hours to be ready for harvest and people who train farming will daily log in for few minutes, plant new tree and then log off. That would be so annoying to see in Oort.

Why we are talking about encouraging players to play daily in this topic? If game is fun and you have fun time in it…what more reason you need to keep logging in every single day. I will have guild work in future and that will keep me enough online. If we get level system or rare weapon materials, even more daily online time and nobody is forcing me or giving candy…my hard work will make my character stronger and maybe can now make more awesome stuff.


First i want to mention that I´ve played all the games you compared to, so im familiar with ALL those systems and i suffered from every one of them.
Any form of questing like the ESO and WoW system you mentioned would (imo) just not fit into a game like Oort. Where would you get the quest/task/order/whatever ? Where would you get the reward? (Just some windows popping up would be kinda strange imo).

I have to agree that the GW2 system is kinda ok but as i already said i dont see any windows popping up in Oort.

The daily win system could also work but what would be a win? Killing a titan should (imo) be something like a raid in WoW (so much effort/hard that its only done once or twice a week). Maybe if they add something like: This or the dungeon system i already suggested it could give an additional reward for clearing the first one each day.

And last and least the energy system. I think there is no need to even discuss this. As you already said: Its a feature free to play games need to earn money.

The time sink crafting system from ESO on the other hand could be opted into a daily reward /reason to log in by making it some buff system. For example: Sword grinding, takes 22h to complete and gives you a 5%dmg bonus on the selected sword for the next 24h after completing (this could also be applied to tools like pickaxes).
This is an idea that´s quite simple to implement and yet gives you a reason to log in every day. Simple and effective) :+1:

A much more complex (but imo also way more encouraging) system would be something like this:
Since it is often referred to Oort temples I´ll just assume that they are going to be ingame at some point. There could be some (3) mayor ones in a central spot in each world (maybe near the capital) but instead of being places with valuable loot and high danger those temples should be some kind of “shrines” (I dont know if there are going to be gods in Oort so please accept that i used the word shrine for the concept idea).

[quote=“DarkRepulsor, post:6, topic:1777”]
Persona 1 – The MMORPG Veteran
[/quote] (shrine 1, demands mob drops, gives exp bonuses / stat bonuses,increasesed gold from mobs)

[quote=“DarkRepulsor, post:6, topic:1777”]
Persona 2 – The Builder
[/quote] (shrine 2, demands certain block types (in masses to make it fair), gives increased building/mining speed, increased ore yield)

[quote=“DarkRepulsor, post:6, topic:1777”]
Persona 3 – The PvPer
[/quote] (shrine 3 (optional idea), demands some PvP trophies, gives increased stun duration, sneak skill, player loot )

Each shrine demands a random type of item, switching every day/week(no one is forced to do anything and there is no penalty if you just ignore those “shrines”). Maybe add a max. amount per player.
Each item should have a value (for example some grey garbage sword {1} and a high end epic sword {100}.
After the day/week the shrines would give rewards to all players (or only to the ones who to sacrificed something) and the “sacrifice points” are resetted
I have different approaches to the reward system:

  • Only the the shrine with the most “points” in it gets activated. So if the “builder” sacrificed the most blocks the builder bonus is active for the next day/week. (my favorite so far)

  • Only the top 10 guilds get the reward (from each shrine). (this could become unfair but hey, life is hard)

  • Every shrine is activated each day/week but the effect is increased with each sacrificed item.

This would 1. Give us a reason to log in every day without forcing anyone 2. Add a nice use for pre-genrated structures in the world 3. Would add occupation even after clearing the biggest titan/building the biggest house.

EDIT: Oops just saw what a massive wall of text this has become. Sorry for that^^


It was my opinion that this thread was created to preemptively tackle the “now what?” question. I agree with you that daily tasks aren’t ideal and that the game should be played to better your character or work on tasks you have or whatnot. But there’s only so much of that some players can take before they’re asking themselves what to do next. And you could answer with some task or challenge they could do, but after finishing that task, they’d again be asking “now what?”. Successful games provide some sort of extra incentive or goal for players to aim for to keep them coming back. Whether this is to keep the community active or to keep subscription fees up differs per game.

Your feedback is useful in establishing a need to keep rewards at a level that will encourage players to come back to play without encouraging them to come back to play only for that daily challenge. However, generalizing the playerbase to individuals that play just to grow stronger and acquire more materials and providing that as a sufficient reason to continue playing doesn’t really tackle the problem. Your character will likely reach a cap in terms of strength and acquiring rare materials will likely reach diminishing returns. Many players will need something more.

Just in general I’m very curious about how you could suffer from a supplemental system such as the ones in ESO and GW2.

Implementation would likely be tackled by devs. Zouls started this topic to discuss possible systems of rewards to encourage players to play and whether or not community members think something of this sort should be introduced to the game or not.

The only reason raids are done once a week in WoW is because of the raid timer their developers introduced to space out content and squeeze the subscription from players. Given the choice, I know many guilds who would like to farm raid content, but then the game would become meaningless once they had made their characters the best they would be. This is precisely why this topic is so necessary. Measures such as raid timers or daily rewards to encourage players to play keep communities active.

I really like the shrine idea. Thinking about it some more (and reading your comment about WoW raids) made me think about the WoW professions in which players can take a set amount of base materials and transform it once a day into a more rare crafting material. Something like this with shrines, in which you give an “offering” in return for a “blessing” or “gift”, determined however, could be interesting.


WoW: weeks of grinding boring quests to get reputation to get the shoulder enchantment
ESO: bored farming mats to craft the needed items…

I know nowadays its like that but in vanilla it was really different. You needed to farm several days to even get the potions/admission you needed to enter Naxxramas. And i only know a few guild that were able to “farm” things like molten core or Naxxramas. Also a “raid day” was really exhausting for the group so no one really wanted to raid more than 2 or 3 days a week (even in the hardcore progress guilds i was a member of at some point)

This is also a system i see working out.

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You quoted me as just saying “Just in general I’m very curious about how you could suffer” However, my question was asking specifically about supplemental reward systems, especially those in ESO (crafting writs) and GW2 (daily/monthly rewards).

I agree that WoW rep grinding wasn’t fun, but it’s also something you did do. They were successful in getting you to spend the time you were paying them for to do it. In that regard, they kept players coming back. And when it was required for shoulder enchants and whatnot, I wouldn’t really consider it a supplemental reward system. And ESO crafting isn’t a supplemental reward system. We obviously want to steer away from a system that only provides rewards players for doing certain tasks as this turns more into forcing rather than encouraging. My previous thought about daily transformations of some base materials into rare materials might actually fall into this category.

Those systems have been created to keep players staying online and like you said, keep them buying new monthly subscriptions. Of course Oort doesn´t have that last part because this is one-time payment unless you want to rent world or server so no actual economical reason to keep players for eternity online.

We are currently in vanilla demo building phase so we don´t have problems with keeping high leveled players happy as they have to wait at least 6 months so you can call this mmorpg. Then if this problem arises we have also reason why people are not playing so much like they used and we can make actual topics how to battle against it. Right now we´re just listing how all other mmorpgs that have been online for years battle with this problem. I say it again, we´re currently just demo, we don´t have this problem for long time.
Also against pro-builders and hunters that are getting bored adding new content will fix problem for while. Right now we are getting those new things regularly so no problem right now.

That sounds like we need special stuff that can only be acquired by those who play daily for +1 year so that they can be show-off with their online hours. Also what good does low to medium (high) level daily rewards do when I play 10 hours daily, I´m member of large hunting/trading guild and so can acquire everything I want from ultra rare weapons to ordinary common grass. Reward system that works with resources or equipment only works with those who doesn´t play much.

TLDR:I said it at start but I say it again, we don´t need silly daily reward system, because Oort is one-time only payment. Resource and equipment reward system only works with low to mid -tier players as high tier can easily gather everything they need. Stuff that shows-off your +1 year daily log ins is just plan silly.

I feel someone who dedicates themselves to the game should be rewarded but I personally don’t like to feel “forced” to log in with log in rewards. I love to play a game everyday but in many mmo’s I have missed out on monthly rewards due to missing too many days. I quit the last mmo I played due to the game feeling more like a job I wasn’t allowed to take a day off from.

Incentives and bonus’ should be kept in the realm of convenience in my opinion. Giving extra money and experience for said daily quests, allowing someone to choose a building, fighting or gathering booster to fit a style of play. The only things that should be kept within certain limit would be certain instances, events, raids and the chance to gain “real” ingame currency.

I think having many end game variables and having a long and slow but fair way to acquire end game gear will encourage people to log in and play daily more than daily rewards.


I think a lot can be applied from Destiny to this game. Destiny did most things right (addictive, easy, fun) it was just terrible in terms of story and rewarding progression when DLC came out. Bungie handled the game terribly.


Applying this mentality completely defeats the idea of contingencies, which defeats the purpose of this thread. Just because we aren’t in a certain state doesn’t mean we can’t talk about what happens should that state arise. Trying to prevent certain outcomes is usually a worthless endeavor when those outcomes are reality. Also, as you say, the game is being developed. This is perhaps the best time to discuss the fundamentals of the game, both present and future as we have nothing else to really do and it doesn’t take away play time.

This was not at all what I intended. As I wrote earlier, any system that is actually implemented should be fair for everyone…see below.

I agree with this approach whole-heartedly. I also think a sort of faux-currency that could be spent on in-game titles, aesthetics, and other unnecessary but fun elements would be an interesting approach.


Fixing problems require analysis about problem and without information you cannot make analysis nor fix , only hypothesis what can happen and how it could be fixed in one instance. One cannot pre-plan life in advance with 100% accuracy because certain unexpected things may arise that throw every pre-made calculation off. Same applies here, unless we know exactly how Oort will look like when it´s officially launched and why people will then quit, we are only wasting time here with hypothetical problems and answers. We don´t know if there isn´t enough content or another game like Starmade will get so popular that people will go play that.

You only say that daily system should be equal to everyone aka builder-only player should be able to complete it like veteran player. What I said was equal reward system that doesn´t discriminate players by their playing hours or experience is also next useless with experienced players as they don´t have need for low to mid level rewards.
"Why should I do daily quest that gives me 100xp in 10 mins or forces me to travel another world to complete it,
(since different worlds have different resources and creatures. you could make it only affect world that you currently are in but enough for that)
if I could just stand here and do this thing which gives me 170xp in that time.

If this topic was created for ideas how to encourage players to be online even after they have achieved everything how does giving more everything, (even if it can be chosen from different options to suit your own play style), going to do anything?

Yes,it will add some game time, but isn´t this just a evil way to do it? “Do 30 daily quest to unlock this random thingy” Also discrimination between those who are daily online, and casual gamers who play to enjoy. Titles should be awarded from rare events, from killing stuff like 1000 Gahtans or killing hard titans and not from logging every day just to do 1 quick daily task and then get cool title.

Which one is more fun, rewarding and needs more time?

Searching group for very hard titan and then finally killing it after some failed attempts or 10 quick and simple daily tasks/quests for title?

Who is this “we”? I find this topic to be quite engrossing and personally relevant as I’m currently struggling with finding motivation to keep playing a MMO I am subscribed to.

Definition of contingency: a future event or circumstance that is possible but cannot be predicted with certainty.

Sorry, I didn’t make it explicitly clear what I intended to say. When I said everyone, I meant everyone. And then just provided an example. As I’ve stressed before, any reward system should be supplementary. Meaning providing no real unfair bonus. Let everyone have cake. Let people who want icing have icing.

Suppose I have an idea for a build I want to execute. The idea requires me hollowing out a mountain. I think about the time it’s going to take and realize, meh, it’s not really worth it, I’ll go find some other game to play. But oh hey, if I have a bonus that lets me break stone twice as fast? Hey, maybe it’s worth it then! This is, of course, a weak example, but one of many possible scenarios in which a bonus to building/harvesting, etc. would be useful.

This goes back to my “what now” issue. So you’ve killed the hard titan and received your fancy new title. What now? If you receive some sort of token for logging in once every day, week, month, whatever, in order to get the “dedicated” or “loyal” title, that might prove incentive enough to get die-hard achievement collectors to keep playing.

This is your own example. I’m not really suggesting any set amount of days. As I said, let the devs do the implementation. Any sort of reward system using my basic faux-currency idea would require a substantial challenge. 100 days? 1000? Not really my place to suggest balancing. Merely trying to provide and discuss ideas as per @Zouls first post.

You’ve already declared that you don’t think rewards are necessary and that’s absolutely fine. To some extent I agree. But perhaps others have ideas they think are worth discussing. And I feel that this thread has become too much of a debate and not enough of a conversation, so I will only reply to new ideas pertaining to the thread’s topic in order to promote further ideas to what I consider to be a relevant post, even if you do not. However, if something I have said is giving you trouble or sparking new ideas, feel free to message me! I’d love to talk more in a way that doesn’t take up too much thread space.