Release 180: XP and Progression re-re-balance!


#62

That is merely an offer to solve your immediate problem. Right before that I stated several things that will help solve this.

I used to get 40 plots a week, by the looks of things I’m going to get about 30 a week now. I will have thousands on release again with the current system since I’ll play and get them all the time. I won’t have them week 1, sure - but I won’t need them then either. I can see no reality where I will not have thousands of plots on public worlds. Why do you feel you would not?

Private planets will have rights and public access and by everything described about them so far encourage communities. They need to ask you perpetual money for this feature, because the companies that host those servers ask perpetual money for them. It’s not pay to win, it’s pay to host. If you host it yourself you won’t pay perpetually since nobody has to pay for servers then (obviously your server can’t be trusted then either so not part of the public realms then). This is why hosting a Minecraft world costs monthly money and why most MMORPGs have a monthly component or severely limit the data and CPU that they use on you.

Why not just farm XP on your existing characters? I did some math recently and you basically get a plot per hour of play if you do grinding without any serious focus. At what rate do you want/need to get plots? Help the developers understand your requirement. Should you get 10x more? Should it rather be rewarded at the start of every week as a fixed amount? Do you want thousands to start off with immediately? You need to be clear on what would make it not feel bad for you - so that they can try and balance that with the reality that we’re playing an MMORPG running on paid servers somewhere.

Why are you building in an MMORPG if you want to not interact with the community? Your solution might just be a self-hosted private world then - this is already planned. None of the limits and none of the community - you don’t have to share resources this way.


#63

Possibly, but they are limited so you will run out. We were thinking more like a skill point trait which earns more plots or a coin exchange for plots. Again, these are thoughts in progress, not “this will happen”.


#64

James, you are correct you have not limited the number of plots and it should take less time to generate xp with the changes. I want to make sure you understand that I have been reading the posts by the developers and both of those things are (I acknowledge) true. I guess it comes down to why I wanted to play the game. I want to build, I look at all the builds in your ads and on youtube and I want to build and I want to build big. I agree with @Xaldafax, that it is not always easy or practical and should not be necessary to have the cooperation of a group of people to make a large build. I had a decent size build in Krackendown that used 206 plots. I am looking at building in Eden on Berlyn and on Munteen. I am estimated the build in eden will take about 200 plots and on Munteen it will take more. That put me in a situation where I would run out of plots, even if temporarily. I decided to tear down the krackendown location and recovery the plots. I would have preferred to keep it up and maybe expand and improve it but I did not want to have to grind out 10 more levels in order to have 100 more plots. I already had the resources for most of the new builds, so for a while, instead of building I would have had been mining for xp and not really for the resources. I already had to do that a lot in order to reach level 50 even with the new xp granting scheme. I need to acknowledge it was faster to reach the 200,000 xp to get to level 50 then it would have been in the past. But it still took me 6 days of playing more than 2 hours a day.

Even if it is easier to gain plots after 50, I would still like the number granted to increase. That may be because I am a builder, but then again that is why I bought the game.


#65

I like that! I think the current system works great for most players, but being able to fast-track the process for very large builds would be useful :slight_smile: And if you just needed one more plot to finish off a section, you could invest some coins straight away instead of having to go for the whole level which takes more time


#66

Not feeling that way to me. Previously 400k xp (+ weekly bonuses) equalled 40 plots. Now 400k xp equals 20 plots. I don’t really get XP faster since the daily/weekly bonuses have dropped, mining does not give more XP and the gain from crafting is not significant enough to make up for the difference.

An easy to implement version might be to reward “plot tokens” like drops which can be consumed (like a healing brew) to grant max plot count (just like levels do now). The tokens could then be traded normally. This would require no new game systems to be coded. It would be more limited though and would only allow people to trade newly awarded plot capacity.


#67

Thinking out loud we could have a deed recipe which crafts beacon plots into a deed you can transfer between players.


#68

Is this a possibility/solution @luke-turbulenz

I’m right in thinking that plots above and below claimed one’s become reserved, correct? I don’t know how far up or down this carries on for on the Y axis, but that’s a side point.

What if these Reserved plots only went up or down by say 4 plots, so it’d be a 9 tall column of 8x8x8 plots, the middle one being the claimed one.
Inside these reserved plots only the beacon allowed players could place/remove blocks, much like the claimed plot, however, regen would only affect blocks not manually placed.

So this would mean you might have to do some maintenance work (or maybe a skill/beacon advancement that would remove having to do maitenance), on the reserved plots. Of course that would really only effect mostly trees/underground places. If a place was important enough to want to prevent any regen, it could be claimed.

That was a bit of a ramble, I really hope it made sense.


#69

I keep hearing things like and I am very confused by it. To get 1 plot per hour means you are able to generate 20,000 xp per hour. This week mining, building (a little), crafting, and hunting, I have not been able to generate that kind of xp per hour. The best I think I have done this week is about 10,000 xp per hour and that was hunting today. Obviously, I am not doing something right because I have heard something like this a lot this week from numerous people. I honestly would like to understand what I could do better.


#70

Method 1:
Max power and dexterity, 3 points in shovel mastery. Use silver shovels on a starter world and mine out a mountain. That’s more than 20k xp / hour without even compacting your drops.

Method 2:
With my build (new topic I just made) run into a high level mine with gem hammers & grapple and you’ll get about 20k xp / hour with very decent loot. Crafting the loot roughly doubles it (I think, can’t test this properly with all the crafting I’m doing).

Method 3:
With my build (new topic I just made) run into a starter world with silver hammer and mine a mountain of rock. Craft that into refined rock. That nets even more XP - have not tested yet but it should be around 40-60k xp / hour. If you sell the refined rock at current market rates it will be quite profitable too - not even considering the ore you get.

Other
Still looking for ways to do so with mobs. They’ve bumped the XP 10x, but it’s still too slow for the mobs to spawn :frowning: I tried combining mob hunting with soil/rock methods earlier but if you don’t move you don’t get mobs so it didn’t work out so great.


#71

So you are using higher level tools silver shovels and gem hammers. I do not find enough of these resources to use them for all of my mining. I use gems for weapons and I carry a gold hammer when I mine that I use exclusively for gems and titanium. The comment I normally get back is that I can buy the tools, but then I need to find ways to generate enough coin to go through a few of these tools every day. That requires footfall (a lot) or selling items.

I did get about 10,000xp and hour in the great hunt today, so it is possible but you need a group to draw out the large mobs.


#72

Silver spawns abundantly in the 50-80 range almost everywhere. It is very easy to maintain silver tools. Titanium is even cheaper per hit (higher durability), but it does take some capital to get it going.

Since they farm so much faster you are losing way more than you win by not using them. Not only do you half your XP but you’re also halving your profits. It takes less than 10% of the drops from a silver hammer to craft it again (or if you actually trade it yields about 900% coin profit).


#73

Gold tools suck in terms of efficiency in every way by the way. The only worse thing is stone/iron.

Gem tools are very XP economical (but less resource economical). A diamond hammer/shovel hits 3 blocks at once. If you go for pure XP a diamond shovel on a starter planet is totally insane.

Also: If you stick to low level tools you can’t expect decent rewards. You get what you pay for. You’ll have to either get a proper crafting setup or trade for them. Either way is better than using low level tools.

And this might be ironic: I’ve crafted all my tools myself, with loot I gathered myself. The first time I ever bought tools was yesterday - and that’s for my store.


#74

The issue isn’t about “indefinitely” or after 50. It’s about the journey up to there and what you do with this game. Unfortunately 95% of the people here don’t understand it because they either are developers stuck in the mindset of large scale game plans, or people that have been here from start and have a different experience.

I like Kal bought this game to “build and be creative” and interact on the side with people. I see now that it was marketed to me incorrectly and that it is actually a MMORPG in disguise. Building is only 1 tiny thing is a huge set of plans. Also based on the last comment by a developer since plots weren’t important to 60-70% of people we lowered the amount you get each level. Which just sucks for me who really needed those 20 and 30 and 40 a level and doesn’t want to be here for months grinding for 10 a level now.

If you all don’t understand something we need a real conversation. Simple statements or repeat the same thing by the development team doesn’t help move the conversation forward. I am advocating for your game and it is starting to feel like I am more of an annoyance to you all since most of my comments or questions on technical server challenges to plots are swept aside.

Basically after all this I have to come to the conclusion that plots are linked to XP and you have to grind them if you want to build anything of decent size. And if you want to build anything of value on multiple planets you need to grind an ALT. And that having too many plots per character is a very bad thing for this game.


#75

I think getting this in might help to alleviate a lot of the plot shortages. It will also show how willing people really are to purchase (and part with) their plots.

EDIT: You could make this hand craftable and for single plots. That would skip a lot of the complexity of machines interactive with plot limits. For larger transactions we can (later) have deeds that represent 10 and 100 plots.


#76

Purchasing plots doesn’t solve the problem… that is another forces player interaction model.

I see it as an option but it is not the solution to the problem I am trying to communicate with Kal and what we also brought in about Prozee…


#77

I will go to Epsilo and mine in the 50-80 range and see what I can find. Maybe I will find enough silver to start using it in tools. I mine for an hour and will report back.


#78

I went to Epsilo to mine. I only dug between 50 and 80 in altitude, I did not stop mining for an hour, and I did not include travel time and time to dig down to 75.
Here are the results:

1 - I found no silver or gold. I would not have found Topaz at the level so that was not a surprise.
2 - I mined 342 soft coal and 22 medium coal
3 - I mined 200 copper and 96 iron
4 - I mined 18 small fossils, 2 medium fossils, 1 ancient tech component and 8 ancient tech fragments
5 - I mined 1,202 stone and a small amount of sand and gravel
6 - I gained 13,152 xp including my daily activity bonus of 3000 xp.

I was using an iron hammer exclusively and have max hammer skills, max power skills and 2 in dexterity.
I was not in a cavern but started digging from a cavern . Could this be the reason I did not hit silver? am I looking in the wrong places?

I did hit about 10,000 xp with the mining, so that is a rate of 1 plot every 2 hours excluding daily bonuses (at level 50).
If I mine for 1.5 hours a day and spend another 30 minutes crafting and building I can see getting up to 20,000 xp per day.


#79

Hi @Xaldafax, I’m genuinely concerned with how the game seems to look like to you now.

First of all, you mentioned this “it is actually a MMORPG in disguise” and would like to say that it is indeed the plan right from the start and on their website as well so no false advertisement were done.

Second, are you not concerned that you are planning lots of decent size builds all over the planets that would more or less make them ghost towns? The recent update aims to solve this problem. Basically lessen the plots for low level so they don’t saturate the planets with big builds but at the same time, rewards those in higher level with indefinite plot rewards. Honestly, I’m a little worried of this indefinite rewarding system but that’s just me and not the concern in this post.

Finally, I would really like to push for my previous suggestion in making plots a commodity just like how a rich man in real life can buy lands but someone loses it as a result (to maintain a good plots vs player ratio). Or we could also have additional builder skills to give more plots.

I just don’t want to see anymore ghost towns. I don’t build big so I can’t completely empathize with how you feel. If you have coins or specializing as a builder, you could have more plots to satisfy your needs but let’s not increase the plots for everyone.

Edit: Since you mentioned you don’t want to feel the need to interact to have more additional plots, I disagree with this one. Making builds is arguably the thing that has the most impact in the game. I would not like a no name solo player to have this much impact in the game that they just built a city alone…


#80

Still getting plenty of negative XP:

Just got this going through a portal:

I got negative XP yesterday whilst crafting too but lost the screenshot before I could post it. Wasn’t close to a portal - only crafting for my shop.


#81

I got negative yesterday of 2,350 for killing a level 1 wildstock on solum. This was on my alt character I was using for a test.