Release 180: XP and Progression re-re-balance!


#42

OK, @Kal-El you’ve got me curiousity peaked on the XP rates now.

Let’s assume some basic numbers:
600 blocks farmed per hour with max luck, on a higher planet (that is 1 800 looted materials then)
8 xp average per block to collect
12 xp average from crafting those blocks into useful stuff
That’s 20 x 600 = 12 000 xp per (farming) hour

Assuming that you farm 20 hours per week that would then be 240k XP per week (excluding daily/weekly bonuses, actually building, etc).

Which of these sound off? Where does your assumptions/recording differ?


#43

I will agree that with the Wayfarer upgrade package you need 960,000 points to get 60 plots. Of course what you really get is 50 plots for 800,000 xp and 62.5 for 1,000,000 since the plots are awarded every 200,000 xp. I wonder how they handle the fractions? Are they rounding up?

I can agree that you can mine 600 blocks per hour. If I am focused, I can do that even not using high-end hammers. I also agree with your math that the average xp earned per block is probably 8 xp. If you are collecting wood, leaves or soils then the average will fall back to 4 xp since at the current time, there are no materials that generate the extra xp like coal, iron and copper do now. But on the other hand if you hit a few gems then it will increase the rate so I think 8xp is a good average. So that means up to 4800 xp per hour from the mining. I am curious where you got the average of 12xp crafting items. I have not seen any information on how much xp is generated by crafting various items. I think you do have to factor in travel time, locating where to mine, and deciding what to craft. I also think that crafting some things, iron hammers, stones, and refined stone probably does not generate 12xp per block. I do think (with nothing but limited experience) that the number is probably between 4xp and 8xp per item for the crafting. Unless you are crafting a mix of items that includes very high end items like gem tools then it should skew higher. Also you are making an assumption that your machines are crafting the entire time you are mining. I think I could agree with an assumption that a combination of mining and crafting will generate 7200 xp per hour (600 blocks x (8xp{mining} + 4xp{crafting})
with 2 hours per day average and including the daily and weekly bonuses that would be 136,800 xp per week. Really not too bad.

In my post, I am probably to pessimistic on my mining numbers. You are also right that if you are crafting anything, you need to boost the rate for the xp from crafting the resources. That is the main difference in our numbers.

What would you think the xp per hour would be for building? If you are building then you are not generating resources for crafting so you would probably need to not add any xp for crafting your number. I have limited experience building since the new release. I have seen 6xp per refined or stone block. Not sure on other materials.


#44

I assumed for 4xp per item as well. 1 iron block + 1 soft coal block = 3 iron ore + 3 soft coal ore = 3 smelts = 12 xp (not tested, my assumption’s basis). This does not assume that you are crafting full-time, just that you are crafting what you mine (and that crafting takes negligible time).

Also, 600 blocks per hour does account for some travel and idle time (at least with a ruby grapple in Vulptos cave system). In my experience it’s actually a bit more when mining with a combination of diamond and titanium hammers - but that’s too niche to be good for an average. Also, how much of your game time is actually spent focusing on XP is not taken into account.

I’ll definitely keep an eye on my numbers for a while and try and share a few interesting facts once I have. A good question to ask might be what an ideal plots / farming hour ratio would be.


#45

@james

I logged in today and saw this. I was quite happy, and I re-skilled my character more how I wanted him to be, but then I realized that we have less total skill points now than we used to. Did something change? It was closer to 1,100 before, and now it’s 1,000.


#46

We were given things unlocked for free before.


#47

that’s right for the extra invantory :thinking:
just starting up will take that into account.


#48

I just spent all my points again but don’t have as many as I originally did. Also a lot seems off from before. Maxed out swing speed and placement speed don’t feel the same. They feel much slower.


#49

There were 1087 before, but some of the skill trees have lower requirements I think, so it balances out differently.


#50

I was at lvl 50 but only got 1000. I definitely didn’t have enough to purchase the same skills I had before. :disappointed: now I look REDICULOUS swinging a shovel :weary:


#51

Never mind about the swing speed and placement speed. They’re normal. But I definitely don’t have all the skills I had before.


#52

I LOVE this game but I am VERY disappointed to see this. You all made things worse with your plot update. I worked so hard to get to level 28 where I could start actually getting a decent numbers of plots and be able to build a community on Berlyn and hopefully having something else on another planet. Then after the update I jump 10 levels to 38 and think I will start getting more plots to only find out I get less.

I was even going to spend $250 on the game possibly to get 50% plots so I could help the community because I’d have more plots. Now I see that money would have been a complete waste of my funds because things are worse.

XP gain does not solve the plot issue. The restrictions you put on plot ownership is the problem. I am not building 24/7… I have other things that earn me no XP like talking to people, running around the planet, trying to discuss how the community grows, etc… It has become very clear that there is an unknown reason (probably technical related to planets and player numbers) on why people are only allowed to have a certain number of plots per character. I think you all should just be honest about why it is so important to keep the plot counts low… at least then we would understand it.

What will be sad is you will not see any large city because there will not be enough people to support that unless they give many of their plots. People underestimate how hard it is to get people to cooperate. Look at the real world and remember this is a GAME. So people care much less about it… Additionally this is harder to see currently because people have paid or been in the game forever to receive the excessive plot counts they have and there isn’t enough vocal community of people that have started from scratch to really show the dynamics of the game. Having only about 320 plots at level 50 isn’t right.

I spent countless hours with @reapa11 trying to build a nice community on Eden for new players while having huge constraints on plots because I was only getting 10 a level. Weeks of work! Now I get 9 and soon 10 permanently. You really don’t know how mad that makes me…

You all really miss the point of building and plot management. I’d love to explain but it’s like that’s a waste of time since all the other comments by other people like @Kal-El aren’t being heard either.


#53

@Xaldafax: The game is still changing rapidly and the devs are very responsive to pain points. Give it another few patches and I’m sure you’ll see an increase in plots to meet your needs. As you’ve already stated many have brought it up.

Since I’ve started playing they’ve increased the plot count drastically. There weren’t even rewards post level 50. Also, you’ll be able to have entire private planets for yourself at release. Oh, also, it’s been stated that guilds will have their own plots separate to those of players.

EDIT EDIT: I have about a thousand unused plots. I can set you up a few beacons to help build your town and give you full rights on them.


#54

This is a feature we really want to encourage. We want players to donate plots they are not using to builders. Not in the game but hopefully one day we can change beacon ownership :slight_smile:


#55

Why do you think this?

The number of plots you can earn is unlimited.


#56

@OmniUno I really appreciate you willing to donate the plots from the bottom of my heart but honestly that completely doesn’t answer the point I am trying to make.

Private planets will result in less community that is being pushed and that means they are making me pay to be able to build nice things… a version or pay to win.

This is a building game not just a community game. I shouldn’t have to be donated plots or “encourage to donate plots” by people that have extra or people like you who were from the beginning and have thousands. People won’t HAVE thousands in 1.0. Right now people will have 320 at level 50 and either have to grind two other ALTs to get more or grind past level 50 to get 10 per level. With as much respect as possible people really need to stop comparing the existing player base and all their bonuses or those that paid to be part of development with the people that will be buying the game after version 1.0 is release.

@reapa11 and I just did the basic math… everything we did with Eden that is pretty and amazing is going to have to stop now because we cannot support development beyond the current state. Neither of us can help any other player on any of the upcoming 50 worlds because we don’t have any more plots to give basically or our Eden plans stop. So I guess I destroy weeks of work so I can go do another project… Either we do that or @reapa11 has to destroy what he did with @Rumplypigskin’s settlement or the simple Elopor base he has. The game is basically boring now because we can’t build unless we go grind another 50 levels on other ALTs which is only is a repeat of the same issue on another character.

I completely know that the developers listen, I am not challenging that or the wonderful work they have done and will continue to do. But they completely missed the point with my posts about plot management and plot landscaping and needs of lower players plots because they decided to release the plot revision that they did. There are others that feel the same way and are being told the same thing.

Now we see continued communication to “loan” plots or “guild plots” that force community interaction. This shows that there is a very specific mindset and reason that they are limiting plots for players especially in a solo mindset. Please just come out and state why you are limiting my ability to build in this game on a reasonable level as a solo person. At least knowing the technical limitation they have around this on why they cannot managing large scale non-wild plots would allow me to rationalize the limitation and move on.

Either their game design can handle large plot counts per person or it can’t. Let’s have a conversation on that and why plot limitations is so critical to game play. As a rational person I can handle that… I just don’t appreciate trying to play a game that says it’s a building game where I can’t build very much.


#57

I’m confused. I genuinely don’t understand the issue.

Players generate 10 plots per level indefinitely.

The aim of the balance was for players to be able to earn plots at a constant rate.

I don’t see how this is limited.


#58

It’s the amount. 10 is too low. 30 was better. 20 would be ok.

You start building something and 10 plots just doesn’t cover anything. Go look at the counts of some of these places and remember that people won’t have 1000s of plots. You won’t be able to have anything decently sized unless people really work together and we know how truly hard that is…

Go look at Eden on Berlyn. See how small that is overall and I am almost maxed on plots and only got that because of @reapa11’s help. I can’t grind forever to get enough to cover a few more trees and maybe a road. I shouldn’t have to do 2 other ALT grinds to do that. 8x8x8 plots are big but not once you try to start doing stuff… your supply goes away quickly.

If there is no limitation on a technical level on players having plots then why is the mindset of the development team focused on lower numbers. I don’t understand that and would love to know why… If I did it would maybe help me change my view too…


#59

Plots are earned faster after Release 180 then before - indefinitely.


#60

The overwhelming majority of players use about 60-70% of their beacon plots. A very, very small minority use all their beacons at higher levels and they really are the pro builders.

It seemed pointless to give players a currency (beacons) they had no interest in so we are looking at alternative ways for builders to get beacon plots without forcing them on players who just don’t want or need them.


Weekly Dev Update: 2017 August 11th to September 29th - 2 Months of Toil
#61

As has been mentioned before somewhere, maybe add a plot reward to builder feats? People who actually place a large amount of blocks or chisel a lot will then get more plots. Players who don’t build won’t have to worry about it