Share your tool/equipment/weapon/forge knowledge here!

[May-L04]

I’m searching for people with a wide knowledge about tools, equipments, weapons or forges in general!

There is a bunch of myths and missing knowledge in our boundless folk. Just like GOLDEN FIST in the past, the SUNSET FORGE MARKET wants to add now important knowledge to debunk those myths and make the purchase experience easier for all customers.

Please share your wisdom so we can educate all oortians

What we know so far:

• Speed max cap lays at 118/120 action speed (so if you’re using for example a topaz tool and use mega speed brew, you reach already the maximum possible speed without forging busy bee on top :)) speed 115 and 118 is so extremely similar, if you dont try them next to each other, you will have trouble seeing/feeling the difference.

• if you buy a tool for a specific tier, the general damage determines usually what tier the tool is. Which can be of course influenced by damage brew and specific quirks like day and night quirk. Specific quirks on tools do not give you a real disadvantage and can be therefore without worry be purchased. That would be for example crit chance reduction, sinking feeling or random noises but also a few more. If you see those applied, the tool is still perfectly usable and the quirk does not make the quality any less.

• Grapple reel in/reel out maximum speed is 40m/s. Everything above is wasted. Focus on the other boons.

• The rank of a tool doesn’t say much about the quality of a tool, just how maxed out it’s boons are. Those boons can be fairly useless at that time and the rank can still be high.

• Slingbow projectile weight reduction boon will add also projectile speed

• Grapple hookshot boon adds also reel in/reel out to the Grapple and maxes it out towards 40m/s.

I put these in a rush together to give few examples. Please feel free to add to this list, correct me or help me to formulate it as short, understandable and correct as possible. I’ve not used much in-game terminology in here as I have not the boon/quirk names in my head, so help with adapting is appreciated

If anyone has old screenshots from GOLDEN FIST’s wisdom, or if here are still players from this group that can help out, please tag them.

@Lorgar

Update 26 Feb. I stumbled upon this:

@TheVicious85

Another possibility is Quirks, some quirks will add stuff. For instance Wonky Trigger will +400 Durability

[Lorgar]

Here are the screenshots from Golden Fist about quirks that existed back then

2 things that are different now:

• Well fed does not restore energy anymore
• Icy ground makes getting up slopes harder

[Nightstar]

Speed soft cap is exactly 125 - though without a testing setup it’s basically impossible for me to tell anything past the 113/114 transition.

Boundless Stat Analysis

Testing this and some other stat info courtesy @a13o

Here is a graph about the effects of some brews, since they’re percentages not flat amounts they affect different tools differently depending on the tool/skills:

@Mayumichi

Also your movement speed is capped at 40 m/s but faster reel speeds get you to the movement cap faster, as stated by @lucadeltodecso

@lucadeltodecso

a 40m/s reel and 90m/s reel “would” still feel different in that the 90m/s one is going to get you to that top-speed much faster or may infact be faster overall even as will be stronger to compensate against air-drag

“Air Drag” the boundless engine is so thorough for the simplicity of the game. Truly not being exploited to full potential here.

Adding to your comment about rank, tool rank can be low because of the boons you want like magnet, AoE, and glow which can only add 30 - 40 rank when at target levels. AoE can add 50 but you don’t want that

No tool with these boons will ever be “max rank” even if it’s “max forged”.

By the system of naming a tool for “T(x)” based on what it can one-shot with max skills, no tool can be forged to “T7” except some lucents. If you see someone selling “T7” tools and charging extra watch out. If you’re using mega strength a “T5” heavy tool is fine for T7. You might require a T6 balanced tool I’m not sure off hand. The difference is due to the brew buffs being a percentage again, not a fixed amount.

One reason someone will give for calling a tool “T7” is because maxing the forge boons means it’s going to require a lesser brew. But TBH if they’re charging a premium, brews are cheaper than maxing a forge.

Regarding quirks it’s worth knowing what the trade-offs are. Like one jump ahead giving you double-jump, or on icy ground giving fall armor, etc…

EDIT: It may be worth adding that sometimes buffs or buff/skill combos in Boundless are multiplicative where you might expect them to be additive. This really shows with durability drain and persisting foods, which is what originally led me to notice it.

[Lorgar]

T7 is a good topic to go deeper into.

To get an AoE tool to 1 hit on a T7 world there are different combinations of tools, brews and pies to achieve it. Damage number is minimum required that shows as Forge Effect and max speed is without speed bomb usage as refreshing that gets annoying quick:

• Diamond with -320 damage (lvl 5 forge) + Mega Strength brew. Max speed 105 at +50 speed forge
• Sapphire with +320 damage (lvl 9 forge) + Mega Strength brew. Max speed 120 at +50 speed forge. +45 is also great
• Emerald with -10 damage (lvl 7 forge) + Mega Strength brew. Max speed 105 at +50 speed forge.
• Ruby with 310 damage (lvl 9 forge) + Mega Strength brew. Max speed 120 at +50 speed forge
• Emerald with -1080 damage (lvl 0 forge), +40% critical chance (lvl 8 forge), +100% Critical effect (lvl 10 forge) + Mega Strength brew + Criticaling pie. Max speed 55

Common options are the first 2.

• Diamond is the easier to forge one and thus cheaper. With 38 energy drain and 105 max speed the slower more energy draining variant. This means any regular T6 diamond hammer is also T7 with a strength brew.
• Sapphire is overall better but harder to forge and more expensive. With 26 energy drain and 120 max speed less energy hungry and hits much faster

It is possible to make day/night versions that require lower damage forge levels. Quirk forging is very luck dependent which is the reason it is rarely used.

Great sites to calculate:
https://pfiffel.com/bl/dmg/
https://boundlessinfo.com/forging/forge-auto-calculator

[May-L04]

About the T5 is not totally true. I checked a while ago the pfiffel damage calculator and for a sapphire only T5 tool much less damage is required. Anyways, even if you max this damage out to level 10, without any strength brew you still can’t make it to a t6 or 7. So there’s a difference in how much you need to level that tool. What I say is, you have a T5 tool with like level 5? (I believe was minimum, don’t judge me on that one I’m too lazy to extra check) damage or a T5 tool with level 10 damage. Both are T5 but one has the damage more leveled which makes it more expensive. And the difference is, with the damage available, can I push it via damage brew even to a higher tier? With the bare minimum you wouldn’t be able to make it a T7

[Nightstar]

Right, this goes back to the percentages, and It’s why I was using the terms heavy (diamond/emerald) and balanced (ruby/sapphire). I don’t think you can get a swift (topaz/amethyst) tool up to one-hit on T7 at all.

Ruby can one-hit T7 with level 9 damage and a “super” strength brew. At damage level 8 it won’t do it even with mega brews I think.

It can qualify for T5 at only damage level 7. So a balanced tool requires a little more forging than a heavy one, due to the lower base damage making the buffs/boons slightly less effective.

EDIT I’m seeing here the oddity that even though the hammer rates 5k damage the calculator says it requires 2-hit on T6 @4800 block strength. I rarely use this type of forge but I’m assuming that’s due to the block armor:

This is a type of forge I would almost never use so sorry for missing that bit, however on a skim @Lorgar’s detailed breakdown above appears to have addressed that.

[May-L04]

Topaz which has more damage than Amethyst can be only forged to T5 so it would only reach T6 damage with Mega Strength brew

Forging and max caps etc are really a science on its own. I could never explain in the past just the slightest to my family as it would reach over their horizon of understanding. There’s not many people that dig into the game mechanics or forging to find out that information hidden on the bottom of a deep sea… so we need to keep information as simple and short as possible for customers. (Partly also for the smaller forgers). As it can become easily confusing and overwhelming.

As the goal is, to inform. So people understand what they buy. That some deals are actually just as good, or that they are not “scammed”.

[Nightstar]

@May-L04

so we need to keep information as simple and short as possible for customers

I tend to agree and it’s why I raise this point up often. In the normal system of naming a tool for a tier, there is no tool that is natively “T7” and also 3x3 (not requiring any buffs) except for Rift.

[May-L04]

@Nightstar

hammer rates 5k damage the calculator says it requires 2-hit on T6 @4800 block strength

That’s what I wanted to address to, and it’s very confusing if you don’t know what this website shows actually. It took me quite long to understand that what shows there 5k damage and the 4800 damage required are still true facts. If it was a single hit tool. Aoe reduces the damage of the blocks around the center block of a 3x3 field at -40%. So even though the damage should be enough, because of the aoe reduction one forgets about easily, it’s not anymore a one hit tool. Well, only for the very center block…

[Nightstar]

@May-L04

Well, only for the very center block…

Wait, what? As far as I know the damage adjustment for adjacent applies to all blocks. In thousands of hours of mining and block farming I’ve never seen a 3x3 break a center block but not the blocks around it.

Even in the other formats, each block that feels the blow takes the same damage reduction from the boon. This thought is tripping me out because I’m very certain of it. I wonder what you could have seen or heard to make this impression.

If you look at the damage stats for instance on a typical AoE/DMG level 8 diamond t6 hammer, if the side blocks were getting 40% less damage than the center, they wouldn’t break on the single hit.

[Nightstar]

So, I just sort of wanted to sanity-check this. I modified my gain log to show all the hits and got the expected result:

It definitely shows the same damage to all 9 blocks, the expected amount:

That’s the 5472 of the tool damage minus the block armor which is 800 at this tier.

I had forged a damage level 6 single-hitter just in case anything was weird but it does, as expected, single hit the blocks. As with anything when you one-hit the damage isn’t shown/logged though.

You had me wondering, for a minute there

[Zjawcia]

yep, i noticed lately that all my forged tools dooing less damage to high tier blocks than expected regardless of my pure miner build i had for gathering gleam and rocks, i noticed that slmost all forged tools t5-6 labeled as 1hit t5-6 required 2 hit… even with str brew…
but also, few times i noticed that if i mistakedly went on my gatherer shovel/axe specialist for mining rocks using hammers that require 4-5 hits to break a rock, even when i switch to miner it still required few hits to break the rock…
strange, but i was a bit busy lately to gave it too much attention but when you mention difference it kicks me

[Hela]

Apologies and correct me if I’m wrong…

@Nightstar

minus the block armor which is 800 at this tier

The value of block armor of each tier are different. The block armor would reduce the damage done by the equipped tool.

For example…
The max health of the gleam block on serpensarindi is 3,600.
The damage value on the tool is 3,648
The remaining hp of the gleam after 1 hit is 352. The block armor of blocks on T5 world is 400.
It means the damage done to the block is 3,648-400 (block armor) = 3,248.

This is a 1-hit hammer I use on gleam on serpensarindi

I find this info easier as reference to choose which tool best for which tier

I hope my explanation is clear enough. I tried

I would like to give credit but forget where I found this info

[Buugi]

Dat is some big ass dmg.

[Nightstar]

@Hela

The value of block armor of each tier are different. The block armor would reduce the damage done by the equipped tool.

There are two good forge/damage calculators available, and both of them display the block armor levels for the tiers.

You can see them in the pics poste in this thread, on both sites it’s the second column of data.

Also @Lorgar posted some caps above from the Golden Fist of signs similar to your damage grid showing the various quirk effects. Boundlessinfo has this information available with a nice interface as well:

I don’t like to manage quirks much but as @May-L04 mentioned, some of them are harmless, and others do have niche use when you plan the effect into your play style.

Most notably the day/.night hammers got popular for farming T7, but in my experience forging for specific boons and specific quirks is not worth the added effort and losses. If you just allow quirks and forge a ton of stuff though, you occasionally get some “goodies”.

[Collussus]

I originally started forging with the help of this thread, I’m pretty sure it’s still largely relevant:

[Guide] The Methodology to Forging Everything - V2.3 - Added Repair Spanner

[Title] In this guide I intend to showcase what boons are, the exact process behind getting the boons you want and how to efficiently increase those boons to higher level’s once there on your tool. Table of Contents Introduction- Understanding the basics Centraforge Character Build An Explanation on Forging Materials The Gum and the Catalyst The Compound and the Resin The Paste and the Solvent Understanding RNG with Boons, Quirks and Defects Boons Quirks and Defects The Step …

[Nightstar]

Vansten’s guide is “ok”. And before any of the many people who got their start there jump on me for saying that:

@Vansten

Personally? Even though its in my guide - I just don’t use it.

It’s a good start, and for someone who is new to the forge and wants to start forging for high level, it contains a reliable method. It’s also a bit inefficient and expensive.

There is a wealth of knowledge there about forging and for the simpler stuff it’s great. In today’s game though people looking for low level farming tools don’t need such a complex and wasteful method.

Also to mention that people develop sort of different relationships to the methods available and the RNG. If you’re looking to get started forging in general this guide is a place to start but remember that it’s important to reach out and try other things once you start to understand what you’re doing.

[May-L04]

Thank You all for the precious information that got given so far

I want to remind, this thread is not a “how to forge” topic, it’s more to educate customers that don’t know that some quirks are innocent or can be dealt with in some way, or that specific stats maxed out do not add value to the task it shall do and only raises the price…

For some forgers it can be also relevant so they don’t think they need to max out for example reel in/out.

At this point I’m just confused about the whole block armor conversation as I thought that the pfiffel damage calculator is containing this information already and the only thing one needs to pay attention to is that the aoe has a damage reduction of 40%.

I know the methodology to forge and its considerable to check out for some forgers. But it’s ultra long to read so I never went trough it really. Like I mentioned, short accurate and understandable data is the key. Nobody wants to take a 30 minutes read before they purchase a hammer.

[Nightstar]

@May-L04

At this point I’m just confused about the whole block armor conversation as I thought that the pfiffel damage calculator is containing this information already and the only thing one needs to pay attention to is that the aoe has a damage reduction of 40%.

Both of the online calculators account for this. If you have set the parameters properly they will highlight the chart correctly for the number of hits required. This includes accounting for damage reductions, buff, skills, and block armor.

However in the chart they show the block health and the block armor separately. For those who worry that they have to do additional calculation or just try and line up the tool damage shown vs. the highlighting of the chart, block armor is usually the answer. This is why the chart will show 2 hits for a 4800 HP block when your tool is doing 5200 damage.

Pfiffel is my go-to but boundlessinfo also contains a forging tool that is extremely helpful in analyzing what quirks are going to do to/for you.

@May-L04

Nobody wants to take a 30 minutes read before they purchase a hammer.

So True!

[Redlotus]

I make/buy tools that dig and mine stuff. I make/buy bows that kill stuff. I make/buy grapples that grab stuff. I don’t like quirks or defects so when I forge or buy tools/weapons/grapples I avoid those.

With that said, just make or buy the tools that work for you. I have used a number of tools, bows and grapples and really, they all vary based on what you like. Hookshot vs regular grapple, shotgun vs single bows, speed vs dura hammers. On top of that, if you don’t like quirks or defects for whatever reason don’t by them. Sure, there are some quirks and defects that are passable or not as bad, but I’ll gladly pay extra for tools without them.

There are a few exceptions such as Clear Weather