See that’s what I was telling all the time^^ If the amount of time it takes to level further is big enough then the system without a cap will be almost equal to a system with a cap.
Therefore I’d take the system without a cap because it has less restrictions.
Actually I don’t really care about open or closed system. I just don’t want any player to be able to solve every problem and get every tool, weapon, machine or engine alone without necessarity to interact. No matter how long he is playing.
And I also had other points in my posts, more worth to discuss, since the discussion at the moment is just about limited or unlimitted system for the last 20 posts 
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If you don’t want players to be able to do everything if they play long enough then you DO care about open or closed systems^^
Great to see everyone getting involved in this. 
Really wanted to see these sorts of conversations. Some things to consider when you provide feedback:
- What is your opinion of the overall system?
- What do you like or don’t like? (KuroKuma doesn’t like that you are not allowed to unlock everything with 1 character)
- Are there any skills, abilities, etc you think are missing?
- What would you change, replace or rearrange?
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I think creep should reduce fall damage when crouching, that way it is more useful than just a building skill. I also think different abilities should be unlocked at different levels of proficiency, maybe have jump height be a proficiency and at certain levels of it you get double jump, creep, ledge climb, etc. That or have an overall “movement” ability category, that contains jumping, crouching, climbing, grappling, sprinting, swimming, underwater breathing, etc. You could even include some abilities such as night vision, stamina regen speed, etc.
One idea that I think would be pretty cool is to give terrain bonuses to different races/have abilities related to these. Stuff like stamina regens slower at very low and very high altitudes, and there are abilities like " high altitude training" that mitigate this. It would be a small bonus, but enough that it will be significant to have it if you spend a lot of time in situations like that.
And I know a lot of people don’t want races to have a special trait, but what if different races just started out with level 1 in a skill or ability? Like a bird race would have high altitude training, a mole would have night vision, an amphibian would have longer breath, etc. This would give some flavor to different races at the beginning without making people choose one specific race if they want to max out a ‘class’
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Without knowing how the rest of the skill system is going to look I think the best way to describe what we currently know is “Meh”.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a decent system and there is nothing wrong with it but there is nothing about it that makes me think “Woah, that perfectly reflects the megaserver-voxel-economy-MMO genre it is placed in and utilizes the opportunities that come along with it”. Atm it rather looks like any cookie-cutter skilltree in any generic f2p game.
As I wrote above. You should put more emphasis on utilizing your genre.
Besides of that it looks really unbalanced (this has already been mentioned though) a lot of the skills seem to be useless (at least in comparison to other ones of the same “tier”)
I also don’t mind the Proficiency trees rather being waterfalls. But as already adressed by someone else: They definitely need a special reward at the end. Maybe something like:
- Hammer Proficiency “Ultimate” : “Furious Miner”, Mine stone (and other ordinary rocks) with twice the speed.
- Shovel Proficiency “Ultimate”: “Archaeologist”, 1% chance to drop fossils, ancient tech components or ancient tech fragments (dependent on the difficulty of the world) when mining dirt/sand.
- Axe Proficiency “Ultimate” : “Nothing to Give”, Foliage drops Timber as well.
- Slingbow Proficiency “Ultimate” : “Ricochet”, Shots that were slightly off sometimes still hit.
- Lance Proficiency “Ultimate” : “Threading the Needle”, Perfectly timed attacks can fend off projectiles
- Brew Proficiency “Ultimate”: Dunno what brewing does so no suggestion here
- Bomb Proficiency “Ultimate”: Dunno how bombs work so no suggestion here
And so on…
Besides of that I think that there are too many “flat percentages” that make the skilltree pretty boring overall. I think you should rather go for some unique improvements instead of just flat increasing some percentages.
Reviving, for example, could look somewhat like this to be more interesting:
Basic 10% HP revive 
Reviving becomes “chargeable” to restore more health Damage reduction while charging Resurrected Players don’t draw creature-aggro for a short period of time Fully charged revives revive all players in a small radius (restored HP declines with increased distance)
I think branches like that are a lot more engaging than 10%, 30%, 50%, 75%, 100%, AoE branches.
Additionally I think that the Abilities Tree should be way less linear and branch out more.
You always put much emphasis on telling us “every player will be able to be unique”, adding ramifications (even small ones) would really benefit that goal.
“Charge weapon”, for example, would be way more engaging if it looked like this:
I don’t think this is an issue at all, in fact, I think that allowing players to do so would be a problem.
Besides of the already mentioned “Ultimates” I think that there are some things missing:
- Portal proficiency seems like something that should be a thing but isn’t.
- Warping might make a nice proficiency or skill-branch as well.
- Same for dying (death penalty)
- Creeping should definitely be a basic skill without requirements (I’d even place it in the founders tree).
- Same goes for Bulk crafting (Mass crafting, on the other hand, could still be deep down the tree)
- Connecting “Charge Weapon” and “Revive” seems a bit strange (logic- and gameplay-wise)
- Material (Natural-Gem) Proficiency shouldn’t be separate branches but rather subsequent skills in one single branch imo.
Additionally I’d love to see some skills/perks that come along with some penalties like I already wrote in an older thread of mine:
PS: I know you are a small team and that some of the things I listed may be out of your scope but I’d rather see you perfect a few gameplay-elements instead of half-assing many.
16 Likes
some very cool ideas you have imho
yes! loved the whole perks with disadvantages from the older elder scrolls series (think it was daggerfall? was so long ago so can’t exactly remember)
i have so many abilities i would love to see in this game. jumping really high, double jump, air gliding, hover, flying, less fall damage, run faster, able to breathe under water, can taker more damage/have more hp, deal more damage, can go stealth/invisibility, can zoom long distance, see enemies/friends trough walls, night vision, mine faster, immunity to damage for an X duration, teleport short distances like 10-20 blocks and abilities that support tools/weapons in many ways. these are the firsts that come in mind
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Everything in this post with exeption of, missing skills and Vastars distaste of bulk crafting is pretty much my feelings about it.
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Can agree with this. But I don’t like the concept at all, because of the named problems.
This is a cool idea. I was thinking the complete branch “revive” is useless but this could work.
I can agree with 100% of what @Vastar said.
I like to add that the current set-up is far too “flat”. The longest path is currently 5 steps long (revive) and I don’t have the feeling this is offering sufficient longtime motivation. Especially if every “step” is nearly equal to the prior one.
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I think @Vastar raised fair points and it is appreciated as I can see all the likes in such a short time.
He reviewed the trees from another ancle not as most of us before (maybe because of @luke-turbulenz 's constructive questions).
I also think that Boundless has the potential to be gamebreaking new with features. Already it’s name gives hope for endless creativity, individuality and long time motivation.
I really like the idea of skill trees in which you need to make decisions between abilities (of course this will be also achieved by limited available skillpoints in some way, but @Vastar 's way is a bit more fun imo). As way as my proposal indicates certain combinations of skills to achieve a very special skill.
However, trying to see the skilltree from a new ancle, considering new abilities and possibilities in Boundless.
- What about bonuses against different creatures / boss enemies / titans?
- What about reading Oort? (if this will be integrated in Boundless). Will there be abilities helping to read oort? reading books / notes / ancient ornaments? Being able to write in oort yourself? Here is a huge discovery / adventure aspect
- reading oort comes along with discovering the “real temples” (not the start zones)
- In general I see much too less skills which support people who run through worlds to discover (I guess discovering will be a huge aspect of the game? (what about more saveable location markers and other abilities connected to exchange and personally save geographical knowledge? View distance could be improved [additional to your graphic settings] -> either by character view distance increase or by items you can create: glasses, sight glasses, etc.)
- Another aspect I very miss until now is economy influencing skills… Okay we have standard boosts for productivity. But what about skills directly connected to dealing? Skills just a dealer can use? (Selling more items then normal on a plinth, storing more items in shelves / bags, earning kind of bonus when selling items, like 10% more coin?
I also agree that disadvantages in skills give more opportunity for individualism.
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I have to say I agree with everything except for the not being able to unlock everything (who would have guessed it^^)
Really good points in this post.
Day 4 which means it’s time to add a new skill tree. The new skill tree today is the Traits skill tree. 
The reason for this is you need to charge your weapon to revive a player. It wouldn’t be an instant revive.
Revive was seen as a handy PvE ability when players are attempting to take down our most dangerous and powerful creatures, especially when one or two allies are defeated and could be brought back to the battle quickly without a death penalty.
Also, the respawning where you died will likely change so you go back to a safe area. So to stay in the area you will need a player to revive you or buy a new warp.
Have a look at the traits tree. 
We did have a version with more storage in a selling plinth, more plinths, etc but it was dropped. Might be worth revisiting this area.
Lots things here, here’s a quick reply:
- Higher jumps, double jumps are covered already in the Abilities tree.
- Flying, Hovering, Gliding would be cool, but it was dropped in favour of grapples.
- Fall damage has been covered earlier in this thread.
- See through walls and night vision is not really on the plan at the moment (but maybe a brew)
- HP, damage, mine faster, immunity to damage will be Attributes and Equipment based
- Long range teleport distance is covered in Traits tree.
- But I guess you are referring to a blink. Something to consider and we are experimenting in this area.
- Abilities that support tools/weapons seem to be a big need from other posts. Will look into this more.
- Stealth and invisibility (maybe a brew)
- A zoom / scope option has been discussed, but I am not sure what the outcome was.
Hope that is everything. 
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awesome stuff,glad to hear about stuff related to buying/selling etc as i’m leaning towards a crafter/seller type of character
Shout range III <- Kill it with fire! … No shout range all over the world. NEVER EVER!
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Health Regen Bonus I-IV and Stamina Regen Bonus I-IV have a typo^^ it should be regeneration and not regeneation.
Sneak Attack II has another typo. Ceatures instead of creatures.
Not exactly a typo but something that bothers me. Sometimes it’s “increase” sometimes it’s “increases”. I’d really like to have either one of them for everything^^
What exactly is threat? How does it affect the encounter with a creature?
As far as I’m concerned there are only 2 things which are really new in this tree to be unlocked. Libra for more information and Light Source to be the light^^ Everything else is just an increase of something that is already there.
While we still have one tree to go, am I right in the assumption that it’ll be possible to unlock every new thing with one character? (Not trying to start another discussion about cap or no cap, just curious because we don’t know yet how many skill points everything costs or how many well have with the cap)
Also some of the connections are a bit… strange^^ I mean why does the Inventory space require a further compass range, more enemy information or health regen?
I can understand that it is really difficult to make a tree out of so many different skills which have not that much in common.
It just seems strange if you look at it and think: “Oh I’d like to have more inventory! But… I need health regen for that? 0.o”
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Thanks for spotting those. Should be sorted now.
Threat is how much of a threat you are to that creature, so it is more likely to attack the person who has accumulated the most threat.
A lot of this is due to limitations with our current UI plan for this. Right now the skill screen would not be much larger than the inventory screen.
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According to the “Traits tree”
- You said there will be a “cap” of acquirable skill points -> The XP Bonuses at the end of the paths are useless then.
- Again there are too few variations on the skills or constraints between different skills.
- What is the use of “warp distance” ? Can you warp to further planets or is it only on a planet ?
- What about “attack speed” or “walking speed” ?
Side question: Till now I didn’t found anything according to “automation”. Is automation still planned or is the concept dropped ? This would be a shame in my opinion 
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Wow, thanks for all the positive feedback @everyone
(I guess all those years of playing RPGs finally pay off 
)
Damaging a creature generates thread.
Creatures attack the player with the most thread.
Skilling “Thread” or “Sneak Attack” adds a multiplier to your thread generation.
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