If somebody want to have all craftings in boundless he should not be able to have them all with a “maxed” effect, but only a few. I think to have players which are able to craft all is OK, but there should be levels of quality which are also related to skill levels and no char should be able to max all of those levels. I think if somebody would be able to craft all he should have still enough points left to get a nice boost in some combat skills or one or two better crafting branches (but not more then 1/3rd of all possible).
Also, I think to max out his Char should Never take more then 4-6 month when playing 25h a week (less would be better). Also with all additional content coming. I hope that there will be no additional content which raises the max level cuz that will lead to even longer roads to high level which would be annoying. A good way to make good expansions is to offer more options, not more grind to do, especially when having new players in mind. Also, end game content should be measured by the “play skill” the player needs to succeed, not how high his stats are leveled.
And please no mini-lvlups at the end of the road (like paragon levels in d3 or those similar ideas of the elder scrolls online), because that just raises the time needed to be high level without giving real options or true “high level” feelings. Instead let us have more options to change our focus at later levels so that we may become a bit more flexible. May be beacon plot numbers still raise later, but please no direct higher stats of Chars after reaching the top level.
I think I like that very much. Like this you are no more “hunter” per developers definition. But Players will give each other sooner or later “profession names” themselves based on skill point distribution. and Since not all abitilities can be achieved - potential good combinations are very diverse. So you will have a lot different professions people will be called.
I like it! Gives players more flexibility and individuality! Very appreciate!
I actually think the limitations enforce more interaction between players. If everyone can do everything after a certain amount of time, where is the need to deal with others? Why do I need to buy the best tool, weapon, machine, engine from specified persons when I can do anyway everything myself? Only reason here would be time distribution. as @Havok40k explained well.
Besides @luke-turbulenz: to spice up your trees maybe and to differ from other games in which I never saw this… Could it be interesting to make certain abilities unlockable just in case you have reached severlal unlocks of different abilities? I think not that many games support this combined skill setups, at least of them which I played. They usuallly have linear skill trees.
I think it is what @Heurazio also meant (read it after i wrote my post).
Example:
Creeping skill: if the only purpose is not falling of cliffs is, then it’s a pretty wasted point since I cannot unlock all skills. It’s more likely a help for people not that skilled in moving. But sooner or later noone will make use of this I guess, will they? Don’t see real benefit here…
@TheBirne The reason I said it should take years to max out a character would be so we wouldn’t have the all dreaded omniskilled player everywhere.
I think the problem is: I see it as an addition to a “fully capped” character and the maxing would be a bonus. But players who’ll start the game later will only see a loooong road before them without knowing that the main goal is to skill until the cap which wouldn’t be there anymore. (I hope that wasn’t too confusing^^)
@Smoothy The thing about “everyone can do everything” is a little part most of you seem to ignore constantly. Yes everyone can do everything, but not until a long long time in the future. And even at a time where the first person hits the max in every skill the majority of the players would still be halfway behind that. Which should be about the same skill level as with the cap. Because that level would be as easy to reach as it is with the current system. That way it’s ensured that there will always be about the same interaction between players, with or without a cap.
Like I told Birne, the biggest argument against a no cap system that builds upon the capped one we have at the moment is the perception of newer players. The won’t know that the rest of the skills they can unlock after “hitting the cap” is more of a bonus than the real goal. They’d think the game is too grindy because they won’t know the reasoning behind it.
But I could accept a system where you couldn’t have the max stats but could unlock everything. As it looks that’s also what the devs are going for at the moment. I don’t know to what extend but it seems like it.
level cap or not, if it takes super long to get past after certain level players will create the’yr own level cap there. so only the few players will get past that and get above other, and only if the time it takes is worth it. so basically system like that or with cap is still the same.
See that’s what I was telling all the time^^ If the amount of time it takes to level further is big enough then the system without a cap will be almost equal to a system with a cap.
Therefore I’d take the system without a cap because it has less restrictions.
Actually I don’t really care about open or closed system. I just don’t want any player to be able to solve every problem and get every tool, weapon, machine or engine alone without necessarity to interact. No matter how long he is playing.
And I also had other points in my posts, more worth to discuss, since the discussion at the moment is just about limited or unlimitted system for the last 20 posts
I think creep should reduce fall damage when crouching, that way it is more useful than just a building skill. I also think different abilities should be unlocked at different levels of proficiency, maybe have jump height be a proficiency and at certain levels of it you get double jump, creep, ledge climb, etc. That or have an overall “movement” ability category, that contains jumping, crouching, climbing, grappling, sprinting, swimming, underwater breathing, etc. You could even include some abilities such as night vision, stamina regen speed, etc.
One idea that I think would be pretty cool is to give terrain bonuses to different races/have abilities related to these. Stuff like stamina regens slower at very low and very high altitudes, and there are abilities like " high altitude training" that mitigate this. It would be a small bonus, but enough that it will be significant to have it if you spend a lot of time in situations like that.
And I know a lot of people don’t want races to have a special trait, but what if different races just started out with level 1 in a skill or ability? Like a bird race would have high altitude training, a mole would have night vision, an amphibian would have longer breath, etc. This would give some flavor to different races at the beginning without making people choose one specific race if they want to max out a ‘class’
Without knowing how the rest of the skill system is going to look I think the best way to describe what we currently know is “Meh”.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a decent system and there is nothing wrong with it but there is nothing about it that makes me think “Woah, that perfectly reflects the megaserver-voxel-economy-MMO genre it is placed in and utilizes the opportunities that come along with it”. Atm it rather looks like any cookie-cutter skilltree in any generic f2p game.
As I wrote above. You should put more emphasis on utilizing your genre.
Besides of that it looks really unbalanced (this has already been mentioned though) a lot of the skills seem to be useless (at least in comparison to other ones of the same “tier”)
I also don’t mind the Proficiency trees rather being waterfalls. But as already adressed by someone else: They definitely need a special reward at the end. Maybe something like:
Hammer Proficiency “Ultimate” : “Furious Miner”, Mine stone (and other ordinary rocks) with twice the speed.
Shovel Proficiency “Ultimate”: “Archaeologist”, 1% chance to drop fossils, ancient tech components or ancient tech fragments (dependent on the difficulty of the world) when mining dirt/sand.
Axe Proficiency “Ultimate” : “Nothing to Give”, Foliage drops Timber as well.
Slingbow Proficiency “Ultimate” : “Ricochet”, Shots that were slightly off sometimes still hit.
Lance Proficiency “Ultimate” : “Threading the Needle”, Perfectly timed attacks can fend off projectiles
Brew Proficiency “Ultimate”: Dunno what brewing does so no suggestion here
Bomb Proficiency “Ultimate”: Dunno how bombs work so no suggestion here
And so on…
Besides of that I think that there are too many “flat percentages” that make the skilltree pretty boring overall. I think you should rather go for some unique improvements instead of just flat increasing some percentages.
Reviving, for example, could look somewhat like this to be more interesting:
Basic 10% HP revive Reviving becomes “chargeable” to restore more health Damage reduction while charging Resurrected Players don’t draw creature-aggro for a short period of time Fully charged revives revive all players in a small radius (restored HP declines with increased distance)
I think branches like that are a lot more engaging than 10%, 30%, 50%, 75%, 100%, AoE branches.
Additionally I think that the Abilities Tree should be way less linear and branch out more.
You always put much emphasis on telling us “every player will be able to be unique”, adding ramifications (even small ones) would really benefit that goal.
“Charge weapon”, for example, would be way more engaging if it looked like this:
I don’t think this is an issue at all, in fact, I think that allowing players to do so would be a problem.
Besides of the already mentioned “Ultimates” I think that there are some things missing:
Portal proficiency seems like something that should be a thing but isn’t.
Warping might make a nice proficiency or skill-branch as well.
Same for dying (death penalty)
Creeping should definitely be a basic skill without requirements (I’d even place it in the founders tree).
Same goes for Bulk crafting (Mass crafting, on the other hand, could still be deep down the tree)
Connecting “Charge Weapon” and “Revive” seems a bit strange (logic- and gameplay-wise)
Material (Natural-Gem) Proficiency shouldn’t be separate branches but rather subsequent skills in one single branch imo.
Additionally I’d love to see some skills/perks that come along with some penalties like I already wrote in an older thread of mine:
PS: I know you are a small team and that some of the things I listed may be out of your scope but I’d rather see you perfect a few gameplay-elements instead of half-assing many.
some very cool ideas you have imho
yes! loved the whole perks with disadvantages from the older elder scrolls series (think it was daggerfall? was so long ago so can’t exactly remember)
i have so many abilities i would love to see in this game. jumping really high, double jump, air gliding, hover, flying, less fall damage, run faster, able to breathe under water, can taker more damage/have more hp, deal more damage, can go stealth/invisibility, can zoom long distance, see enemies/friends trough walls, night vision, mine faster, immunity to damage for an X duration, teleport short distances like 10-20 blocks and abilities that support tools/weapons in many ways. these are the firsts that come in mind
I like to add that the current set-up is far too “flat”. The longest path is currently 5 steps long (revive) and I don’t have the feeling this is offering sufficient longtime motivation. Especially if every “step” is nearly equal to the prior one.
I think @Vastar raised fair points and it is appreciated as I can see all the likes in such a short time.
He reviewed the trees from another ancle not as most of us before (maybe because of @luke-turbulenz 's constructive questions).
I also think that Boundless has the potential to be gamebreaking new with features. Already it’s name gives hope for endless creativity, individuality and long time motivation.
I really like the idea of skill trees in which you need to make decisions between abilities (of course this will be also achieved by limited available skillpoints in some way, but @Vastar 's way is a bit more fun imo). As way as my proposal indicates certain combinations of skills to achieve a very special skill.
However, trying to see the skilltree from a new ancle, considering new abilities and possibilities in Boundless.
What about bonuses against different creatures / boss enemies / titans?
What about reading Oort? (if this will be integrated in Boundless). Will there be abilities helping to read oort? reading books / notes / ancient ornaments? Being able to write in oort yourself? Here is a huge discovery / adventure aspect
reading oort comes along with discovering the “real temples” (not the start zones)
In general I see much too less skills which support people who run through worlds to discover (I guess discovering will be a huge aspect of the game? (what about more saveable location markers and other abilities connected to exchange and personally save geographical knowledge? View distance could be improved [additional to your graphic settings] -> either by character view distance increase or by items you can create: glasses, sight glasses, etc.)
Another aspect I very miss until now is economy influencing skills… Okay we have standard boosts for productivity. But what about skills directly connected to dealing? Skills just a dealer can use? (Selling more items then normal on a plinth, storing more items in shelves / bags, earning kind of bonus when selling items, like 10% more coin?
I also agree that disadvantages in skills give more opportunity for individualism.
The reason for this is you need to charge your weapon to revive a player. It wouldn’t be an instant revive.
Revive was seen as a handy PvE ability when players are attempting to take down our most dangerous and powerful creatures, especially when one or two allies are defeated and could be brought back to the battle quickly without a death penalty.
Also, the respawning where you died will likely change so you go back to a safe area. So to stay in the area you will need a player to revive you or buy a new warp.
Have a look at the traits tree.
We did have a version with more storage in a selling plinth, more plinths, etc but it was dropped. Might be worth revisiting this area.
Lots things here, here’s a quick reply:
Higher jumps, double jumps are covered already in the Abilities tree.
Flying, Hovering, Gliding would be cool, but it was dropped in favour of grapples.
Fall damage has been covered earlier in this thread.
See through walls and night vision is not really on the plan at the moment (but maybe a brew)
HP, damage, mine faster, immunity to damage will be Attributes and Equipment based
Long range teleport distance is covered in Traits tree.
But I guess you are referring to a blink. Something to consider and we are experimenting in this area.
Abilities that support tools/weapons seem to be a big need from other posts. Will look into this more.
Stealth and invisibility (maybe a brew)
A zoom / scope option has been discussed, but I am not sure what the outcome was.
Reviving becomes “chargeable” to restore more health 
