While I have enjoyed the ability to die without penalty, I can understand where that does remove some of the drama to combat and exploring. Here is how I would answer @james questions.
1 - Alternatives. You could force someone to sanctum when they die for a set period of time (minutes). This would probably have a negative effect on how hunts are organized currently, but it could be applied equally to veterans and newer players. Other than that, affecting xp is probably the best choice.
2 - Personally if you are affecting xp, I would not offer a buff to limit the effect. If you want to keep the drama of death, then it needs to be consistent and unavoidable.
3 - I would probably keep it at 10%. I wanted to say 5% but that is because 5% does not scare me the same way 10% does.
4- I am not sure that this affects veterans and newer players equally. As an example, if you are hunting, both players get 1000xp for tagging a cuttle that is killed. if the veteran is level 50 he/she takes a 10,000xp hit. while the level 10 player takes significantly less. They both get the same xp for identical activities but the veteran is punished more. Unless you fix the xp hit at a specific amount, there is not much you can do about it. The method in testing might be the best way even if it is flawed.
5 - I will reluctantly agree there should be a penalty. If this is a PvE game, then loosing to the environment should have a cost.
Edit: I like @OmniUno 's idea a non-avoidable penalty to xp gain and luck for a few minutes. Cumulative to maybe 30 minutes?
Remove Luck skill point and make it a buff. For more items you loot, the buff increase and if you die it decreases, If you do not play for “x” time you lost this buff until you restart to loot items.
If defeat penalty remains as is (xp reduction), maybe it would be better if a character loses % of xp from last 30 minutes?
I mean - I might be in the middle of hunting and get 30k xp in that period, so 3k penalty upon defeat seems fair. And its the same for lvl 10 and lvl 50 hunter - you both kill a lot of highly rewarding creatures and when defeated you lose chunk of that gain.
However if I’m in my base as a crafter/builder on a higher tier planet - I tinker around, maybe meet someone, give away some items to my people etc. and don’t do things rewarding xp-wise, and then I get jumped by a vicious creature or fall into lava lake outside my base, then losing 10% of my xp bar seems harsh (if I have a lot on it).
If penalty is based on my xp from my last 30 minutes, then those moments in game that are more about socializing than getting xp won’t be punished by large chunk of my xp, and that would seem fair.
The problem with reducing XP gained for a period after being defeated is that players could just sit-out the period if it was based on time.
We could hit them with an “XP Down” status effect which you need to “work off”. For example: 50% XP until you’ve earned 1000XP.
But we’d likely need to make this proportional to your current level to make it even for Lvl 1 and Lvl 50 players, so it’d become:
XP Down status effect to 50% XP until you’ve earned 5% of your current level XP.
But isn’t this identical to a straight reduction in XP?
We can add “Luck Down” and “Stats Down” to the Defeated Status effect.
If it was play time based (like other status effects) then it encourages players to “wait out” the status effect.
In general we make the assumption that Lvl 1 players are mining + killing for lower XP, whereas Lvl 50 players are mining + killing on harder worlds for higher XP.
That in itself is a punishment isn’t it? I log on to play and enjoy playing, so if I have to watch my character idle in a box to avoid a debuff then I’m still having a bad time. (Personally I’d rather play through the debuff but even if people did try to game it…)
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What I’ve realised now thinking about other’s posts is that the XP penalty itself doesn’t hurt new and veteran players equally. I would care much less about an XP hit on a L50 char where it just delays some cubits than I would care about a L10 alt or new account.
Having the ability to “wait it out” doesn’t really make it less punishing from my point of view.
The big psychological difference is that it doesn’t take away something you’ve already earned (that is - I’m not going down in XP, I’m just going up in XP slower)
Another major thing is dying multiple times in quick succession on testing is much more punitive than dying once. If you are dying repeatedly you’re probably already frustrated - no need to hammer it in by taking away all my XP. Also, if I’m planning on dying a lot (like leeching on a high world planet) the reduced XP + luck will make it much less worth my time. The current system still allows me to leech loot on a high level planet.
two reasons I think this would be fine.
1.its the same as making them stay in sanctum.
you either go on with a penalty or take a brake.
2. to many games (and this is one of them) capture your attention so greatly that often times a person needs to stand up and have a stretch but otherwise would not.
I know this has been said so I am not trying to pile on, but I find waiting in game to be a pretty severe penalty. If you are hunting, a penalty to luck and xp makes it less rewarding, that is a penalty. If I wait it out, I miss the hunt. Most players have limited time to play so any time based penalties hurt and most will have to work through them versus waiting.
I am not a fan of this idea. Again using hunting as an example. If I am level 50 and get the penalty do I try and tag mobs or just quit the hunt? If I die before I get the 10,000xp I need in order to start getting the full benefit (or is it 20,000xp since it is a 50% penalty) will I have to get another 5%?
If I am mining or gathering and die at level 50 (fall into lava) then I have to mine 625 regular stones and 313 coal/iron/copper in order for the penalty to be erased? Or twice that many if it is really 20,000xp since I only get 50%.
If this is the way it will work then I really want a skill that eliminates the death penalty. I feel it is too punitive.
Then encourage a player to not wait by giving them a way to actively counteract the luck penalty.
This could be done a number of ways, one of which could be to reduce the effect of the penalty by a percent (to a threshold) by gaining xp.
Example, if I died and received a 3 minute luck penalty of 50%, I could either a) wait the penalty out or b) gain xp to reduce my luck penalty by N%/xp. Let’s say for example gaining 10xp reduces the penalty effect (not duration) by 5%. After getting back to my mining or hunting I can reset my luck penalty back to normal (or a minimal threshold) just by gaining xp rather than waiting out the timer. I am still suffering the luck penalty because I’m getting reduced loot drops while I farm xp, and I’m actively discouraged from waiting out the timer.
In fact, such a luck mechanic should not be tied to time at all, always xp gained since last death.
10% of experience at current level lost and returned to sanctum removing you from hopping right back in or getting any drops from where you died. 10% has worked out well in other games even when just learning and having a lot of death. After all, 10% of 100 is still only 10 so at some point the experience loss is almost nothing and you can die 100 times while learning without it being a big problem. Returning to sanctum gives you time before being somewhere dangerous to think about what went wrong and how to prevent it. That time loss is the big deterrent for most people from repeatedly dying when in the first quarter of a level. Without the time factor many people wouldn’t care about death at all as for most of us it’s pretty rare and when more common would be on hunts where the absence from the hunt is the big penalty and almost anything else is irrelevant.
I agree with schasm. The value of efficient time, especially for us ambitious/determined/hardcore players is quite a heavy (but not unfair) penalty. For someone like a grandson figuring the game out, or a new player, this will probably go unnoticed, or at least for little consequence. It punishes min-maxers more than casual players too, so I like that.
Phew… spent the last few hours reading, and another to conjure opinions haha.
The doors. Absolutely amazing. Easiest topic to comment on.
The starvation effect I actually don’t mind, but I keep my max energy above ~80% at all times anyway, so it hardly affects me unlike others it seems.
The death penalty? It’s kind of meh. Much better than the rage over tool durability and costly skill points. I can see where people are unhappy with the progression instability with lost exp. Perhaps counter it with a “determination” buff for a short exp boost to help them catch up, with a threshold of x% of the x% they lost?
I appreciate the beacon buff, but I think the new length of time will be unnecessary for larger groups of people who can be involved with it, as one person could fill in for another. I think footfall could influence the duration somehow?
The new lighting is super cool.
Swimming in lava sounds cool (haven’t tried to yet )
The fuss is obviously about the skills. Oh boy.
First, my fellow Oortians, this is an MMO. Linearity in skills is quite expected, really. This shouldn’t be a game to play completely by yourself. Your weaknesses ought to be another’s strengths, they should be relied upon, and vice versa.
Next, I do very much agree that this has become TOO linear. I’m hoping to start a monotonous miners guild when 1.0 starts, sell everything in bulk to other guilds (you know, become a reliable supplier or something) and there is pretty much one path of skills I would take to become the mining master. It might as well be Blizzard choosing how to build my class for me (rip Cata<). How would I resolve this? I actually have no idea lol. But, the current style looks super attractive, so please don’t change that. I will throw a few ideas out here though.
Why x/8 for Attributes? Such an odd number. Using 3 or less seems kind of underwhelming, considering epics are so so character defining. Honestly my most comforting idea was implementing attributes into the epics themselves, rather than going all-in or half/half with needed attributes. I’m truly conflicted with how this can be balanced lmao. I had another idea like “combo-ing” skills, like having three basic’s to choose from on each epic, and so on. Or a passive tier like “when Hammer +power >= xx%, then gain this attribute/skill”. Or when you have mastery >=3 for both Hammer and Shovel, then gain “this”. Not all great ideas, but hopefully influences more ideas out of more people.
I was going to suggest the same thing as Omni except a longer period, say 5-10 minutes. Sitting that out is a more serious punishment. Also I agree with the others that sitting out is a big deal, I would rather play through it even if the xp penalty was quite severe.
Simply Add statistics to the game… It will enhance the game and give people another thing to strive for:
Examples:
Most Cuttletrunks Killed
Most Spitters Killed
Most Hoppers Killed
Most Road Runners Killed
Most Blocks Broken
Most Blocks Placed
Most Deaths
Least Deaths Per Minimum play “X” to qualify
Most Money
Most Items sold
Most Items bought
etc etc…
With Kills being reflected in stats no one wants bad stats…and then you wouldn’t even need any other death penalty as the shame would be enough… Just add some minor debuff’s on resurrection for a while… and we are good to go…
, but i understand your point, i would like a melee weapon also.
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