Testing 218: Exoworlds, Blink, Rift and Umbris!

[Strykey]

I have no idea what’s going on in your mind! With the alleged improvements (Nerfs) you drive away only new players!

the game is hard enough for beginners! damn it - even Minecraft is friendlier beginner ?! The game is supposed to be fun and not a game for hardcore survival players - then you can play Dark Souls too ?!

And if the AOE effect really gets worse, it will be the last time I’ve invested Gleam Club or Euros in this game because it makes no more fun and ist so damn senseless! Is this game designed for school kidz, students and unemployed who can spend 24/7 H / D in this game? For people who have work it will only be harder = less interesting!

and sorry - please do not fool us! The stone nerf is just there for even more people to spend real money to have plots! Of course, I can understand this - but I, for example, I’ve earned by building with my 140 lvl … My wife does not like building, but She love crafting! For her, the mainexp source would be completely closed! Then reduce it or make it so that as with the wood, the stones are right there! then it will be more refined!

I dont like the new way!

You’re making the game harder, chasing away new players and hoping at the same time, if you set the Stones to 0 xp - than spend more of the old players real money, but then they are angry and frustrated!?..

You guys know Charles Darwin? …

[scrufola]

@a13o

What if the teaching pies were capped to a max amount of xp instead of a time limit? Kind of like a reverse death penalty. So double XP for your next 25,000 XP.

The teaching pie should just give a flat amount XP when consumed, like the cheat leaf on the test server (but, obviously, much less).

[anon73404375]

@QuimbyBoundless

Wait? You guys they should remove this?

… You, uh… got any stones left? I never did this, and now I feel like I’m about to miss the bus.

[fidach]

I’m pretty sure that is using the xp cheat loaf on the test server!

But it’s an exaggerated example of what does happen.

If you have been happily playing the game without using the rock-stone xp gain, nothing is gonna change for you, so don’t worry about it!

[fidach]

I like the way the teaching pies work, the fact they double xp for a certain amount of time means you have to think a little more strategically about using them.

A simple consume for 20k xp would lead to people just baking and consuming pies in the one spot. A bit like why the rock to stone xp is being removed. You would just be swapping one slice of cheese for another.

[james]

Please - this change has nothing to do with getting players to buy more Cubits.

The aim was to restrict:

@QuimbyBoundless

You guys they should remove this?

The aim of XP is that all players can efficiently gain it at a consistent rate. But with the current configuration of XP on Rock → Stone players can get an alt and take them up 40+ levels spending almost zero time playing with that alt. You shouldn’t be able to give XP to an alt like this.

All activities should reward XP. Ideally we would give XP for all craft actions and all actions in general.

If someone can come up with an alternative fix we’d happily implement an alternative.

Any cunning ideas that allow us to limit the 11m+ XP gain whilst allowing XP for all actions??

[james]

@anon73404375

I never did this, and now I feel like I’m about to miss the bus.

This is the problem with exploits. Players who don’t know about them or don’t use them can feel cheated and forced to use the exploit.

[Xaldafax]

@AeneaGames

But that nerfs the teaching pie! It’s not like people only use it for rock->stone XP

I’m not really sure I would want a teaching pie nerf, but not all of us use the combo. I rarely use the teaching pie for anything… it isn’t the easiest thing to make.

So for me I would be fine that stone conversion and a lot of other XP gains do not work at all with a teaching pie. At the end of the day beginner and just casual players aren’t worried about fast XP gains… so they don’t need the link.

[fidach]

Can we have a ‘max craft’ button now then?

[C0ND1T10NR3D]

@james

If someone can come up with an alternative fix we’d happily implement an alternative.

I have an idea that relates to the second quote below. So Bare with me…

@james

This is the problem with exploits. Players who don’t know about them or don’t use them can feel cheated and forced to use the exploit.

If they don’t know about them, how can they use them? Nvm, that’s besides the point.

How about in that case - “Tell everyone about them”. Stop calling them exploits and let everyone know. Level the playing field! Stop nerfing these things like XP and turn the game back into an Enjoyable & Rewarding experience.

You see, from a player’s perspective, Nerfs take away the sense of Reward away from the player and in turn make the game feel less Enjoyable. Psychology 101. From a player’s perspective, a less rewarding & enjoyable experience eventually leads to an unhappy player. Unhappy players are less likely to stick around. They’re also less likely to recommend a game to their friends. And they’re less likely to write good reviews on Steam, for example.

Players hate nerfs. It’s a plain and simple fact. So instead of nerfing, level the playing field by turning the exploit into a feature and tell the whole player base about it. Sure, some exploits are OP. But a player with an OP feeling in their bones come back for more of that feeling and why do they do that? Because a feeling of power is sometimes WHY WE PLAY GAMES!

Take it from this player’s perspective… The fun is about to be sucked out of the game for me if I cannot afford the plots I need for the build I spoke about earlier. And I wasn’t even using the “Exploit/Feature”. I still get punished and therefore, not really a happy player at the end of the day.

Announcement time. - I’m getting back into Game Development. It’s been too long since I picked up Unreal Engine and made stuff. Time I think for me to make some OP, Nerf free games!

EDIT: Forgot to mention… Just thought I’d mention it but I never used the ‘Exploit’ before. But I’m using it now. If I’m to stand any chance of making this planned build of mine a reality, I need every bit of help I can get before these Nerfs hit. Because I know anyway that it doesn’t matter what I or anyone else says, these nerfs are going to happen.

[Peyago]

This, times 1 million. Probably the most important quality of life change that should have happened anyways.

[Peyago]

Maybe you shouldn’t be looking at the fact we are getting tons of xp for crafting and more about why we are doing it. I don’t know anyone who enjoys going through and adding 11m worth of rocks into tables. But its currently the only way to gain enough plots to do a large build without giving you thousands of dollars.

Maybe its time you took a step back and reevaluated the time you wanted people to level. Easing up the xp faucet across the board will allow normal players to be more creative. Currently the amount of built in waste time is just ruining creativity. If Minecraft can hold people for a decade without all the built in time sinks, maybe its just people’s creativity that is keeping them there.

Hell, maybe my rl gaming buddies would come back if we stopped making the game an hour of chore for 5 minutes of building.

[Xaldafax]

@Kal-El

I think, that a player should be able to go on a two week vacation and be able to fuel their portal I do not think they should have to have a friend do it or be restricted to a 1x2 portal. As has been stated by James in the past, every player should be able to maintain a portal with SOME effort.

@AeneaGames

Your number 3 is asking a lot of some solo players out there, would be nice if you could fuel them for 2 weeks at least all by yourself without having to rely on others.

Let’s be clear that most portals run longer than 2 weeks unless you are jumping large distances. So provide a solution for specific cases not all cases.

If a player is going on a 2 week vacation then they shouldn’t need their portal open because they are not using it. If they want the portal open that means they have a shop, hub, or some other type of business or community function. It is a business or something like that and needs to be run like that - guild or partners or employees.

If they are doing that then the “work” could be something like finding a person that will be willing to fulfill the duty to refuel the portal for a cut of the foot fall. Work is contextual… so put work into creating a partnership instead of just only solo solutions. And if compact Oort is what is decided then it should require increased work to create it.

I would be glad to fill any portal in the game for any person for 25-30% of the footfall especially if they are going on a vacation.

@Kal-El

At least this change is going to make it easier for the casual player to actually play the game.

The casual player can already play the game and was not the largest group demanding this solution. The group demanding it is the ACTIVE player. The group that has large portals.

It would be interesting to actually see the metrics. How many of those people have large portals from T5/T6 versus large portals trying to span T2-T3 regions.

@AeneaGames

Check the distances between all the T5/6 planets, you can’t get around them with 2x2 portals many need bigger ones to get anywhere so not this is not an option.

Yes at some point a person might need a larger portal of 8 conduit. But, most of the universe can be easily reached with smaller portals. So if the larger blinksec jumps are the problem them provide a solution only for that. Compact Oort should only affect T5-T6 and T6-T7 (when available) portals. That is a targeted solution and much better than a wide solution that changes the game on many levels.

[fidach]

an alternative way could have been to bump up the amount of rock required to make stone.

x5 or x10 the current amount of rock to produce the same amount of stone.

it wouldnt negate the ‘exploit’, but it would reduce the effectiveness severly, and maybe even out the xp flow.

PS, just wanted to say I am not against the rock to stone 0xp, but just thought I would chip in with a possible alternative

[scrufola]

@fidach

an alternative way could have been to bump up the amount of rock required to make stone.

I love to build with bricks. I already have to gather clay, mud and ash. I don’t want to gather 10 times as much stones in addition to that. If you change the amount of stones you get from rock, please also decrease the amount of stone used in each and every other recipe that uses stone.

[kimclausen]

haha JR is my go to also love his podcasts

[james]

@C0ND1T10NR3D

“Tell everyone about them”. Stop calling them exploits and let everyone know.

This basically says to players: there is only 1 hyper efficient way to progress.

We don’t want to tell players that there is a single cheesy way if progressing their characters. We want them to progress for any and all actions they want to take.

Promoting exploits instead of fixing them don’t lead to a better game.

@C0ND1T10NR3D

turn the game back into an Enjoyable & Rewarding experience .

This is exactly what we’re trying to do.

@C0ND1T10NR3D

You see, from a player’s perspective, Nerfs take away the sense of Reward away from the player and in turn make the game feel less Enjoyable .

Consider this from the perspective of players not abusing the exploit.

It’s bizarre to want a game riddled with exploits.

[fidach]

@scrufola

I don’t want to gather 10 times as much stones in addition to that.

I think this just shows that there is not a solution that will please everyone!

[schasm]

@james

Any cunning ideas that allow us to limit the 11m+ XP gain whilst allowing XP for all actions??

• Increase gathering XP across the board to compensate the loss
• Limit the amount of XP food can give you
• Make XP food expire whilst logged off
• Make the XP benefit a fixed number with infinite duration
• Reduce the amount of benefit by character level, e.g. 1-10 = 100% usual benefit, 11-20, 70%, 21-30 50%, 31-40 30%, 41-50+ 10%
• Reward other play activity fairly

(All credit to those in this and other threads for above ideas - not all mine.)

People go to XP stones because the progression curve is out of whack for other activities. Also because we’re human & game any system to maximum efficiency. This thread & many others have gone into this, I don’t believe the dev team can be ignorant of it. How many players reach cap before they quit?

Think about where you can give while you take away. Buffing silver and coal doesn’t cut it.

@james

This is the problem with exploits. Players who don’t know about them or don’t use them can feel cheated and forced to use the exploit.

It’s not an exploit.

Perhaps it’s not just fear of missing out that makes people feel forced. Perhaps the game progression is far too slow. I don’t see any acknowledgement of that, let alone an attempt to address it.

A long time ago you asked, perhaps sarcastically, how long it should take to level an alt to cap in a similar thread. Some of us answered you, then again the topic died until a balance pass appears.
//
I don’t believe this is about cubit sales but that’s how it’s going to look. Take with one hand, don’t give with the other.

[Janna55]

I know that when I started to play I never looked at what I got in xp for what I was doing, I was just playing for the fun of it. I needed stone for my build, I went and gathered the rocks and turned them into stone. Needed sand or gravel for walkways, collected what I needed. Needed wood for floors and steps, collected that.

Was always wondering why others were advancing faster than I was but was going, I’m just running around exploring, having fun, seeing what is on the planets.

What did frustrate me was some things seem to give more xp when doing something that seemed similar gave very little. Why did it take so long to craft some items and did they need so much to make something. Seems like it was created to make a time waster, busy work, which no one likes. If you want to make player happy, cut back the amount of items needed, which for some is no fun in gathering, give more experience for doing the gathering to make it more desirable, give more experience for doing the work of crafting other items of needed stuff, require a wider variety of items in that you don’t have just one time for a lot of items you craft but can substitute. My broken record of not use shimmering orbs for a lot of recipes as they are so hard to get but use others in place of them that are easier to get but need more of them.

Make the hard to get items a bit more available so player will want to go and collect them. Same with bitter beans, they are hard to get and few plants have them. So, make it easier to get them so players will get out and hunt them up. provide more plants that have these items, something new to look for and more experience in finding them. Have more fruit on the trees that have seeds we get and use them in recipes, and they can only be found on level 3 and higher planets and rare on level 2, none on level 1, more experience for finding them.

If I have to spend a hour to get 30 shimmering orbs and not use the brews, food, and expensive hammers, shouldn’t I get more experience than the ones who can afford these items that lets them get hundreds of orbs? Encourage players to get out and I’m not saying make them as easy to get or as many as you would in say collect starberries, but a 10% increase would get more players out gathering them? Increase the points in making refined wood so more players will use wood?

Builders want rocks to turn to stone but hate mining, so make more veins of ores so they will feel it is worthwhile and encourages others to mine. And I’m not going high amounts, but a 2% increase will help to get players to mine more and more experience from mining will help them to feel it is worthwhile.
Players need experience to get points to earn cubits to buy the plots for the large builds, give them experience in other areas if you are going to take it away from one area, and just drop it by a point, not take it all away. You will be driving away new players and getting the mid level ones and even some of the older ones to quit playing, not stopping the “exploiting”.