Maybe I didn’t communicate it clearly, but I really think my point was missed.
I never challenged that water/lava is a good way to grief. I never said it wasn’t. What I said was people will use whatever means necessary to be jerks. As examples: Plots are good tools to cause grief… whether it is a house surrounded with my lava plots or a plot blocking a street in a town or one holding gleam hostage… Price manipulation is a good way to grief. I’ll just offer everything 1c cheaper or for literally 1c and then Omni will never sell another product… Yes, we all know people do whatever they want online to hurt the fun or another player…
I was asking that not all discussions fully revolve so heavily around “griefing” and as a verbal community of alpha testers we try to look more towards positive reactions from people in this game than negative. That we assume this isn’t minecraft and will attract a better quality of people that will play it. That we protect from jerks but spend more time in actually delivering things that can add beauty to the game – like water/lava. Like 80% good focus and 20% jerk focus. To me, lately it just seemed reverse and I was sharing my view.
A simple solution of water/lava manipulation in your plot doesn’t fully solve griefing but certainly helps to mitigate the issue. Added to that a simple way to report, remove, and repair helps to mitigate the issue and others like gleam, etc. Spending lots of time trying to figure out every way to control “how people grief” with anti-grief stuff and add/remove features of things doesn’t get anything “fun and cool” delivered. And that makes the good people less interested to play…
Protection from grief IS important and needs to happen. But, since it cannot be fully controlled due to all variables and ways, holding the jerks accountable to their actions (e.g. ban, xp loss, etc) and repairing their action is MORE important. Why? Because that can be controlled and executed on in an easier fashion… Any mistakes can be easily fixed because the sandbox is controlled by the developers not griefers.
Simply put, I’d just like to see water/lava in the game and hope discussions don’t take forever because of all the variables because we get stuck on the grief “potential” with no proof or data that it will be prevalent in this game community.
Then I rather have no water/lava in the game till a good way has been found to stop abusing it for griefing. Water/lava use is really not that important.
The griefing problem with water/lava is just too much of an issue, you clearly do not know all the destroyed servers in Minecraft. We should learn from that. All other little ways of griefing we can handle with reporting if needed.
Let’s learn from the problems other games have had. Griefers will start on Boundless too when we get masses of new players when the game is fully released. Don’t think the nice community that we have now will keep griefers out.
There is no need for player water or lava to flow at all…
Make it a block type, if you want it to look like its “flowing” that’s what the chisel tool is for…
Also with the new chisel shapes coming you’ll be able to make it look way better than the flowing water / lava we have now.
easy fix…
(even though i don’t want to see it put behind an XP wall like everything else… but… this might be a good reason to put points in chisel mastery?)…
i like where @Xaldafax is coming from. i want and am willing to see the best in people.
no need to go with exstream options when simple will work.
my 2 cents is if we get water and lava it should flow even if it’s within your own or guild plots.
by all mean’s though we should keep brainstorming but lets not make it to complicated.
most guilds (cuttlepunks included) will have rented home worlds witch will not tolerate these sorts of things. most of us will except as many settlers as want to move in. if they drop lava over our homes then we just boot them. i know it’s not a full fix but it’s somthing.
@dave and I have possibly come up with a few ideas that might allow us to make some progress here.
I think the solution is:
Where: Fluids can be gathered and placed anywhere. (We may tweak the simulation logic for the flowing fluids to make sure they don’t negatively effect performance.)
Beacons: When a fluid hits a beacon boundary, either entering or leaving a beacon, then the fluid would solidify:
Water turns into an Ice block - the Beacon freezes the fluid, and
Lava turns into a Rock block - the Beacon cools the fluid, and
…other fluids turn into something suitable.
This means that players can’t grief out of or into a beacon any more than is currently possible.
Permissions: If the owner of Beacon A has building permissions in Beacon B, then we could allow the fluid to flow from Beacon A into Beacon B.
Note: This would means that Player C who has building permissions in Beacon A would inherit the ability for fluids to flow into Beacon B. So the owner of Beacon A needs to take responsibility for who they invite.
Regen: will ultimately tidy up fluids (and solidified fluids) that are placed in the wilderness. When regen triggers the fluid simulation will not be run, this means that streams and “waterfalls” with notionally dry up. They may look a little strange if they’re discovered mid regen but I think this is an acceptable issue.
PvP: (I imagine) we would want a mechanism to not allow players to place fluids within 8m of another player, else you could easily be Lava’d. This feels a bit random anyone have any better ideas?
Someone in the past posted “fun > griefing” which I agree with, hence I think we need to make this work.
In that case, 8m sounds reasonable, with possibly an exception for players that are on your friends list. Chances are, you’ll be working on builds with players in your fiends list anyway - such as the Aqueducts of Elop Portas - and will want to see up close that what you’ve helped build, actually works when the fluid is placed.
Definitely - you could potentially put in a sloped block to prevent the fluid going to the edge and it would still look relatively good, I think.
I can get behind the proposals @James wrote up…I’m not a fan of letting people live down to their worst impulses. I’ve been playing games like this for just about 20 years now, and I’ve seen a lot of ugliness. I’d prefer that the possibilities not be allowed.
I like the suggestion made. I am currently trying to use water in a build and would like to be able to gather it and place it to flow as a waterfall down into a pool. Might be fun to try the same with lava. As much as I want to do this, I am concerned about griefing and like the suggestion that the fluid “solidifies” when reaching your border.
I played minecraft some and experienced a bit of griefing, but I never saw the full extent that you are sharing. So I can only imagine what was done and what admins and players had to deal with.
I can share, though, that I am 47 and even when I started with BBS’ in 1983 there was griefers and jerks. So over the years I have seen and exeperienced the full extent of what a non-accountable environment like the online world can have in grief creation.
If something like “water/lava plot fluidic control” that @james proposed in the latest post isn’t a decent stop gap and starting point for water/lava being in the world, then I would agree it isn’t important right now.
I would much prefer the developers spend their/our time on more value add components like – more income/economy components, stuff like furniture/boats, and guild mechanics. Those things are so much more important to the game over the limited functionality that water/lava brings.
I agree with you completely, there ARE other things that could be worked on 1st but this IS the Lava/Water and griefing thread so we just discussing it while it’s up
Unless traps are encouraged, I can still see a way to grief on james idea. A building could have a pool of lava underneath the floor and random holes can be made on the floor. Another example is if a portal leads to a lava below and somehow, it was smartly hidden.
Should we make lava to be water-like when put in beacons? Water should be fine I guess. The only thing I can think of for water griefing is when you fell down a pool and you don’t have grappling hook to get out of it. Going to Sanctum takes time so you might get drown while waiting.
You are correct, within the boundaries of your plots you can still create “traps”. That is not the same as making lava or water flow onto another persons build. Jame’s idea does at least stop that. As long as I am on my own plots. Is there anything wrong with creating a castle, surrounding it with a lava moat and making it difficult for others to come in? I might disagree with calling that griefing. Surrounding another person’s build with a lava moat is griefing.
was reading this and maybe a suggestion would be to let us scoop out the troll water with buckets on our own claims
kinda like erasing it block per block
Yes, we all know people do whatever they want online to hurt the fun or another player…
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