World-Economy-Screen

economy
Tags: #<Tag:0x00007f4f0c317c40>

#221

and such an economy needs freedome of information for everybody (not just a few) or it is even more unfair than it already is in the foundation of such a system


#222

Yup. Most of the time, the more data/info, the better. :+1: Better decisions can be made.


#223

i really dont get how you can be of the opinion (an in my eyes its just that because there is no good reason for a critical thinking person to make this conclusion based of of any facts) that it would be GOOD to hide market information from the wider audience (and only having it available to a small few collecting it for themselfes and their allies). I can only see this leading to a lot of unfair situations where people will not be able to make informed buy/sell decisions, instead being abused by the few that have the information.
I dont want to assume you have the bad intend to exploit other people by withholding information from them ?


#224

There’s also no reason for a critical thinking person to imagine that there’s some conspiracy about hiding prices.

Anyone can do the same thing, go around looking at shops and compile their own list of what is being bought/sold where and for what prices. I don’t really understand how that is ‘exploitative’.

The thing is, if prices are entirely homogeneous all over the entire universe (as would be the case with a system that displays this information remotely, particularly if it includes shop coordinates) then there’s no reason for people to shop around.

If people don’t shop around, there’s less traffic on portal networks, hubs and shops. With less traffic, there’s less footfall (that people already think they’re not getting enough of). And with less footfall, there’s a lessened volume of coin entering the economy (as long as no other repeatable method of coin generation is developed) and so, there’s less coin circulating, which leads to less sales and purchases overall.

So, that’s more or less how a critically thinking person would say that there’s no clear consensus if displaying the full information about prices and shop locations is necessarily the best way to go. It could be, or it could make things worse. It’s worth debating.

What I, personally, would love to see is market analysis statistics rather than having an arrow pointing me towards the best prices all the time. I would like to see a histogram of what has been bought, sold, for how much (median, average or both), and the percentage variation in relation to say, the last month and year.

That would be pretty neat and give consumers and gatherers a basis for their decision making, without removing the need to shop around for good bargains.


#225

Too far behind to read every post but summary caught me up well enough. Having price included in the shop listing may be bad for lesser known shops but if your shop isnt well known you likely wont get much footfall anyway. Why not add a feature to combat this?

Buying from a shop we’ve never bought from before or recently (maybe line this up with the footfall 5 day calculation somehow?) would cut tax by a % on purchased items in that shop until you leave the settlement. This timer would start once you interact with a shop stand (not when you enter the shop).

This benefits the buyer and the seller. Buyer gets more coin while the seller spends less coin just for finding new shops. This also encourages the shop owners to keep their shop stocked and avoid overpricing items.

Also in relation to the “economy screen” have it show average price items have sold for in the past X purchases or timeframe. FFXIV had something similar to this and made me feel more comfortable buying certain items knowing im not overpaying. I remember being a noob and paying 1200 for 1 diamond to put in my atlas when the game launched. Later on found a diamond for half that price and it turned me off to the economy almost completely.

So many people complain about the amount of time it takes to find the one item you’re looking for in a shop. Then you have the few people happy to find a “deal” and save 3-5c on a bitter bean. I see implementing a system like this pleasing more people than not as long as the current selling price of the shop is not shown, only item price history. Of course adding something like this is a big task i assume, so finding something that would work coding wise for the boundless world is the hard part


#226

The reason why showing shop prices and locations remotely could be a problem for footfall wouldn’t be because individual shops will get less footfall, that is irrelevant in the ‘big picture’ sense.

The problem, at least the way I see it, is that people will travel to less beacons overall (because there’s less incentive to explore beacons looking for good deals) and so the entire playerbase will generate (different from receive) less footfall globally, which could be a problem, as that’s less coins in the economy as a whole. I think it’s important to really emphasize the difference. :stuck_out_tongue:


#227

I can see that too, thats why i added the part about giving players a reason to explore (other than just finding a shop selling for a few coins cheaper). Whether its feats, weekly objectives or a system similar to footfall that also rewards the explorer some coin as well. Even in the current system we have, there’s no real reason to explore new shops if you have a shop you frequent thats keeps their prices in line with general economy prices.


#228

It depends. If you’re buying/selling say, 9000 of an item, doing a bit of legwork to find the 5 coin difference adds up to 45k :slight_smile:


#229

Showing prices leads to people putting 1 coin under and just degrades the whole experience. It causes people to have no reason to go anywhere but the 1 specific shop they want. It gives a place for those shops that have bigger wallets to influence the economy directly for their benefit because they have more information on what everyone is doing in an EASY format versus currently having to work harder to get it.

You also don’t list a ton of stuff because that requires a lot of data to be harvested, a lot of data to be stored, overhead on traffic between servers, and a much more complex design solution by the developers which pushes the release of the system out months instead of a few weeks. We can always iterate on the design over the next few years.

Many people need to stop focusing on the “ease of their life” in this game and think about the overall success of the game and fulfillment by the majority of people both old and new. New people get turned off when there are established systems in place that constantly make those that have everything win more over them. So they leave or don’t play that market. We need systems and game mechanics that keep things as basic and simple and fair so that the only real way to win is hard work or dedication.

As an example there are many people that run a shop now and would start doing it if they had their shop found easier through a simple yellow pages. They could set prices and hope people would at least explore to find them because they are right around the corner. But if we list prices then they must set it in line with others most of the time or no one will visit because they will go to the cheaper store. Hence that person stops doing a shop if they feel it is too unfair or hard to compete.


#230

You could argue it either way. That time spent looking for a 5c discount, and having a shop have a stock with enough of what you need is time consuming. It would be faster/cheaper to just farm the 9000 myself. In large quantities like that i would do that anyway. A 5c difference on 40 items wont make or break me so I would be less likely to explore a lot of shops for that 1 item anyway.


#231

Be careful what you wish for, or at least how much. If the coordinates of baskets/stands are posted, prepare for people to place some moderately under-priced items in some inaccessible shop stands (footfall game).


#232

There is a problem with the logic that knowing a price will lead to direct point to point travel and will kill the footfall generated by searching. Players travel to shops and builds for many reasons that are not associated with price. I for instance do not participate in the economy via shops; I do not buy or sell. However, I like to walk through shops and builds to see how players design and build different layouts, and I do this often. I generate footfall and am likely not the only one doing this.

Will widely available pricing by location change the way players shop, yes. Will it be the end all means of determining where to buy or sell an item, no. People are dynamic and complex and are not constrained by hard logic in decision making.


#233

I would expect some people to try and game the system by making a shopstand difficult to find but this may have a negative impact on the shops reputation which will play out in footfall and sales over time. The other thing is this would be really difficult to compare forged items if the only description you get is diamond hammer, forged. So someone could put just forged hammers out and attract players that way as well.


#234

If this is put into the game, Ill get all 10 alts and youll have to pass through all 10 to get to the cheap store. :wink:
Ill even put a few from my wifes account in there. Making money off the product will be out of the question. So you have to make money some how.


#235

What stops this from happening today? Specifically, the footfall traps? You can advertise on the boards and get similar results.


#236

youll get a few from the forums, but if there is a list in the game, youll lure in all the people interested in that item.

I use multiple beacons now to make money as a builder, If not, some days I would only make maybe 2-3k.

I have a few shops but nothing that creates too much money. I dont like the economy feel in this game as a straight shop owner.


#237

I feel like there are more shops than active buyers. However, the footfall trap only last as long as your product is available, which might be for just one customer.

Edit: At least with the forum, you might get more people to visit because they cannot see that the shopstand is empty or the request basket is out of coin.


#238

Yes, i agree that active buyers is a huge part of the problem.

But there is only so many ways people can generate money in this game. Its something that will only get worse. Unless some new content is made pretty fast. I build majority of the time. I rely on footfall to create me some coin. If a list is brought into the game, as a whole, the footfall will decrease. People will only visit a few shops. So only way to sell that low and still keep some money, will be footfall hallways. I seperate my Hub in this fashion. I dont lead anyone down any trap. But i split it into a couple alts to help generate a lil more coin.


#239

What a lovely long thread :slight_smile:

I woke up with the germ of an idea. What do you think … ?

  • I’d like market transaction data, not individual shop stand/basket data - High, Low, Mean, Volume, Daily, Weekly - rewards your engagement with your shop
  • I’d like people to still have to visit shops to research specific prices/stock - rewards activity
  • I’d like there to be reasons for having shops positioned together or off big portal hubs - rewards entrepreneurs

I wonder if the market data could be presented in-game though a new block type that you place, but functioned like the Atlas where you drop the item that you want the device to display data about. Let’s call it a “Market Sensor”. It could have some sort of 3D representation of transaction data (High, Low, Mean, Volume). Not sure how you would consistently display numeric data and keep it in style. Ideas?

I can envisage a row of Market Sensors configured for various items. They could be in shops or in dedicated market “Newsfeed” buildings.

They could have a range according to quality - beacon, settlement, greater settlement, region(?), planet, blinksecs? Distance?

They should be fueled like portals are. This will make people collaborate on building Market Sensor buildings to fuel long range sensors. Maybe fuel rarely derived from Extracting Flint? Agate or Chalcedony shards? Or another use for Oort Shards? Or something else to keep to Lore?

Big malls and portal hubs could have Market Sensor areas with local and long range Sensors? Small shops might specialize? Or small shops might have a portal to dedicated rooms on same planet which have longer range.

They could be 4 blocks high like the guild buffs?

The thing that been giving me most headache (apart from displaying numbers) is Forged items. Aaaaargh. Maybe only base items (e.g. plain old diamond hammer) can be sensed?

It would still allow people to advertise on forums or Discord. It would still allow people to put up advertising billboards.

Edit: For performance and data
The data is collated hourly (or less often)
The infographic is only displayed at same range as shelf contents
It’s not visible through portals

Editson son of Edit: the range in blinksecs could be related to Power. 100 per blinksec. Another new block - Market Sensor Power Coil.


#240

Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with maximizing footfall across alts and players. If you set up a series of mazes with a low cost item at the end to get people to run your maze and generate a large chunk of footfall, I would be good with that. I would likely run the maze for fun and not buy the item at the end.

I generate about 60c every two weeks for my build so I really have nothing to gain from higher footfall. I do not feel slighted kn the least when I generate income for someone because they “just” built something that drew my attention.