BoundlessTrade.Net ..... What do you think?

[Nightstar]

@Tagris

Can we please just close this thread? This thread wasn’t created by the creators of the mod. This thread is just stirring up drama and providing opinions when people aren’t asking for it yet because it is still in development.

I love how you want to shut people up because you didnt want them talking about this thing that they didn’t want.

@Tagris

Simoyd and Fuzzy made the mod. Simoyd is one of the admins on the Official Boundless Discords, which means he asked the other admins if it was okay and then created a channel for general use.

No it doesn’t. It means he had enough permissions to do it. Discord permissions, not approval from turbulenz/wonderstruck or other admins.

@Tagris

appearing in the BETA version of a client that you didn’t pay for and wasn’t intended to be released yet

People keep saying this, but there it is posting into the official discord server again this morning.

@Tagris

A mod doesn’t need to be ‘fair’, because it was made for a purpose not for each individual persons desires.

I’m not actually asking for fair. I’m asking for it to be treated like what it is. A third party mod that people can go (on their own) and get (from a third party website) and use how they like (as you say).

It’s currenlty live and supported by wonderstruck and users are sent to it with no explanation. No announcement. No instructions.And aparently a small test dataset.

Also @Tagris I’ve given you some time. Who are you white-knighting for?

@Tagris

The game remains the same.

You know better don’t be disingenouous.

@Peyago

I’m with you, man. This thread appears to have been put out here to be a witch hunt. @james I know for a fact @Simoyd isn’t a witch. I’ve seen him drown before.

I’m not here for a with hunt, I like simoyd ok and have seen and discussed some of his other work. I think this is a mistake from someone who pushed ahead too fast with a “cool” plan.

The fact that there’s a constant strain of people trying to say that it’s “not released” and asking to have a discussion thread closed shows that many of the people trying to be supportive are aware this is being done incorrectly.

This is not “just a mod” that “doesn’t affect other players”. This is an advertising service run by a third party with crowdsourced data on an official platform.

Still no @james ?

I’m not going to try and quote every instance of “you don’t have to use it” in this thread. I do. I’m using it right now Simoyd popped that same innaccurate oortstone data again this morning. An it doesn’t include the portal seekers baskets. T|his means it is/was being used selectively even during the gathering of the test data.

Also I don’t see anybody pointing out that another well respected player who has posted a couple of times about how great the tool is, is actually the only other person with the scanner.

Also number one response to any complaint about the data is that a user needs to go to the third party website, share their boundless information, and ask to be included at some random time in the future.

I’d love to discuss the technical nature of the tool, and I see that people want to have some discussion like this is comparable to a real API or in-game scanner with live data but it is not in any way.

Just assuming that everyone’s intentions are good, people are trying to help, and this is all officially cool with each business involved, crowdsourcing data to a limited segment of a population has issues with selective (unconscious) bias, pattern reinforcement, and other things that would be worth addressing before you ever get to the technical implementation, or “fairness” of use.

That really precedes any concerns about users trying to manipulate the dataset in the field, which will definitely happen with anything even a real, live data source.

It seems like right now there’s too many shady, or at a minimum ill considered things going on to bother trying to discuss the actual merits of the tool.

[Peyago]

This tread was created by someone who isn’t the maker of the mod to discuss domething that people had very little information on because it isn’t complete yet.

I’m not really sure what else needed to be said.

[Nightstar]

@Peyago

This tread was created by someone who isn’t the maker of the mod to discuss domething that people had very little information on because it isn’t complete yet.

I’m not really sure what else needed to be said.

This thread was created by a member of he community, to discuss a tool that is currently broadcasting live into boundless official channels.

I’m not really sure why you think that trying to suppress the conversation is a valid response.

[Simoyd]

@Nightstar

I love how you want to shut people up because you didnt want them talking about this thing that they didn’t want.

that’s an odd thing to love and the motivation was never communicated so this is a toxic fallacy.

@Nightstar

No it doesn’t. It means he had enough permissions to do it.

I think it’s safe to assume the other mods and devs don’t just let me go haywire and change whatever I want. And to clear things up further I did ask and got positive votes for it from the other moderators/devs.

@Nightstar

People keep saying this, but there it is posting into the official discord server again this morning.

the site is viewable but the client is not stable enough for public use yet.

@Nightstar

I’m not actually asking for fair. I’m asking for it to be treated like what it is. A third party mod that people can go (on their own) and get (from a third party website) and use how they like (as you say).

It’s currenlty live and supported by wonderstruck and users are sent to it with no explanation. No announcement. No instructions.And aparently a small test dataset.

you’re saying it like it’s a bad thing. I feel like I agree with what you’ve said here though. I see it as a good thing though. Maybe I’m missing something here sorry :s

@Nightstar

Who are you white-knighting for?

@Nightstar

You know better don’t be disingenouous.

This is not really a topic that could ever possibly be considered non-toxic. Probably best to just drop it.

@Nightstar

Simoyd popped that same innaccurate oortstone data again this morning. An it doesn’t include the portal seekers baskets. T|his means it is/was being used selectively even during the gathering of the test data.

It’s possible the basket was maybe full or out of coin at the exact time I did it. Therefore it does in fact not conclusively mean what you say it means. You are mistaken.

@Nightstar

the only other person with the scanner.

Every veteran in PS has access to it. People are providing feedback and helping me identify and fix bugs.

@Nightstar

Also number one response to any complaint about the data is that a user needs to go to the third party website, share their boundless information, and ask to be included at some random time in the future.

I would love to hear a better way to do this without Wonderstruck involvement. I’m happy to improve on the process if you have ideas.

@Nightstar

I’d love to discuss the technical nature of the tool, and I see that people want to have some discussion like this is comparable to a real API or in-game scanner with live data but it is not in any way.

not quite understanding this sentance but feel free to ask me anything you like about how it works!

@Nightstar

Just assuming that everyone’s intentions are good, people are trying to help, and this is all officially cool with each business involved, crowdsourcing data to a limited segment of a population has issues with selective (unconscious) bias, pattern reinforcement, and other things that would be worth addressing before you ever get to the technical implementation, or “fairness” of use.

That really precedes any concerns about users trying to manipulate the dataset in the field, which will definitely happen with anything even a real, live data source.

I’ve come up with ideas and a process to handle these issues as best as possible without wonderstruck involvement. If you have better ideas I’d love to hear them =D. I’m happy to improve things moving forward.

@Nightstar

It seems like right now there’s too many shady, or at a minimum ill considered things going on to bother trying to discuss the actual merits of the tool.

I feel like I’ve spoken to your specific concerns here, and I think some of your concerns need more detail for me to be able to speak to them specifically, but I think asserting that my ideas are ill conceived before even giving me a chance to respond to you is a false assertion.

[Simoyd]

@Nightstar

I’m not really sure why you think that trying to suppress the conversation is a valid response.

because two people arguing speculative things against each-other is a recipe for anger and toxicity. Bottom line is it’s still in development and obvious problems are still being worked on. No need for everyone to yell about them when they are already on the path to being fixed.

[anon37133123]

Speaking of this, whatever happened in this thread, a lot of words and such. Have ya’ll heard of BUN? You can literally update your shop information in a format of your liking. I know some of you are already participating in the program. Swing by and check it out if you are not!(Boundlesstrade.net is in the yellow pages).

BUN - Where do you get your information?

[image] Boundless Universe Network What is Boundless Universe Network? BUN is a collection of information from all over the universe located in one place, a lightly restricted Discord. The intent is to disseminate information that you want publicly known about your town, guild, market, planet, operations, or anything you do in boundless. But we have the forums and a million discords, why do we need yet another discord?! Have you actually seen the forums lately? How many times have you copy an…

[Nightstar]

@Simoyd

I feel like I’ve spoken to your specific concerns here, and I think some of your concerns need more detail for me to be able to speak to them specifically, but I think asserting that my ideas are ill conceived before even giving me a chance to respond to you is a false assertion.

There was a 10 - 12 hour gap there. I’m reading your response right now, as at this time, but to be clear on the semantic analysis there the only way I can give you a chance to respond is to make some assertions.

@Simoyd

I think it’s safe to assume the other mods and devs don’t just let me go haywire and change whatever I want. And to clear things up further I did ask and got positive votes for it from the other moderators/devs.

Great. Safety of assumptions aside (there’s a saying about that but it would get filtered) If this is the case let’s get the dev announcement about this great new tool that’s been released to the general player base.

A wonderstruck representative can encourage people to register their boundless avatar/beacon name on your third party website along with of course all of the other data that entails and ask to be included at your discretion.

This really isn’t like the map tool or the meteor scanner mod. This tool will have a direct affect on the entire economy. Why do you emphasize that you’re trying to do it “without wonderstruck involvement”?

You’\re really stating that the boundless devs explicitly approved you posting a live “shopping assistant” in the official discord with this dataset and no explanation to the users?

EDIT:

@Simoyd

that’s an odd thing to love and the motivation was never communicated so this is a toxic fallacy.

No I love it when people take actions so ironic it becomes obvious they’re suffering from some cognitive dissonance.

It’s maybe dark humor but it’s no more toxic than ‘loving’ blooper videos or stupid memes lol

[Peyago]

If simoyd hadn’t come into this forum to answer questions, it would have been shut down long ago. Speculation in this forum creates a horrible cycle of people going off the deep end. Then we see the thread shut down and open over and over.

People get very passionate about this game, and the less information they get, the more everyone percieves the sky as falling and fight with eachother. It isn’t a good look.

As an edit: this thread has been pretty civil, but most of us know eachother.

[AeneaGames]

@Simoyd

Alternatively open a portal to biitula, grov te, lamblis, or boori PS hub.

Got one at Lamblis…

@Simoyd

EDIT: or ask that guy vansten that you were hating on before to do it. (who by the way has access to the scanner client TODAY)

LOL, you’re seeing things that aren’t there, I wasn’t hating on him just making a remark about his earlier one, if someone can’t handle that they should not make the first not so friendly remark

But hey I could get past that, I know him, he has a stall on my market, replied to other posts on forum in other threads, there’s no bad feelings from either side as far as I know so no reason to bring it back up now is there, other then to be little toxic!

See did it again, making a remark about somone’s past remark

Doesn’t mean I’m hating on you tho!

Sadly, that’s just my personality and I know not everyone can handle that, haha.

PS. I will PM you later today, perhaps we can together find a way to get this to work for more people… but need food first!

[AeneaGames]

@Simoyd

Here, I’ve underlined each thing in your post that I refuse to believe you don’t know is toxic.

Nope, not toxic and not meant to be such. It was meant to point out that the db is not working as it should, it is what my posts in this thread were about, about incomplete and/or out of date data, so yes, I do find it rather funny that this happened.

The remark about using it as a guide as evidenced by the smiling is just a wink to Vansten’s orginal not-so-fun reply, and yes, I’m making a funny about it showing everyone that even tho I didn’t like his comment at first I’m ok with it and him.

Now stop going on about it will ya. I know this is your baby and all (the program, not Vansten!) but chill out a tad.

@Simoyd

Again I’ve asked for the coordinates. Failure to provide them is evidence that you’re either lying or trolling.

I told you were it was, it’s even in your own db, but sure, here (copied from your db):

Coin Converters

Gellis
-152, 241, 67

https://boundlesstrade.net/shops/5/coin-converters

There are 10 pages with orders there, 6 of which are buy orders, 2 of which are not at Coin Converters, 1 is the one on the roof, that’s 3 listed on the main shop floor and believe me, there are a few more there and no, only 1 or 2 were devoid of coin at that moment, so that can’t be it.

@Simoyd

baskets with 0 coin or impossible to fit the item requested will not be listed. There are some complex situations with stacking where a basket will appear even though it’s technically “full”.

Perhaps there’s a little bug in there then? Anyway, you have the coords, hope you can find the issue!

---

@Simoyd

Let your PS4 buddies know they can create a shop with coordinates and travel directions after making an account on the website, and they can click “request scan” in the top right and it’ll pop up in my discord for me to scan =D.

But only every 2 days! While shops where the owners can happily run the scanner themsselves will have up to date data…

[Nightstar]

@Peyago

If simoyd hadn’t come into this forum to answer questions, it would have been shut down long ago. Speculation in this forum creates a horrible cycle of people going off the deep end. Then we see the thread shut down and open over and over.

Right, that’s because this is important to every player and needs to be discussed.

Neither the people posting asking for the thread to be closed or the people trying to say that it’s got a status of “not released” while it responds to live requests are helping any of the situation.

Also there are several people here responding as a team, and acting as though they are personally affronted by statements made in response to other people.

Is simoyd/tagris the same person because simoyd sure chose to point by point my response to tagris’ large post as if it were an analysis of his tool.

To be clear there are plenty of people who would be happier with a clear explanation of what’s going on and information on how to get involved than a bunch of hush hush behavior and statements that it’s “not released” while they’re looking at it advertising other people’s shops.

Finding a thread and then being told not to ask questions by, apparently, the supporters of the tool is a bad sign.

Get it to the point where a PS4 player in the back woods of a level1 planet can make the same effort and get the same service as “the portal seekers elders”. Get official wonderstruck (above board) approval. THEN put it live on the official servers.

Until then, and in the opinion which I’m completely entitled to, it’s a small group abusing an (admittedly earned) privilege. I don’t even think you guys are bad people but this is ill considered and it’s not being handled well.

If you want to take time to call me a troll or act like I’m trying to attack your reputation or whatever that’s a separate issue, I reserve the right to respond.

EDIT: after catching up oni aenea’s comments as well, yes it’s clear that as soon as the thread was posted, there were a group of supporters with a defensive attitude ready for “attack”.

Definitely that’s part of what makes this feel more like economic extortion than “a goodwill offering to the community”.

‘Toxic’ indeed.

[Blackmage2015]

This website is awesome I saved a lot of coins gem tools of all kinds for only 1k each amazing

[anon42939288]

@Nightstar

To be clear there are plenty of people who would be happier with a clear explanation of what’s going on and information on how to get involved than a bunch of hush hush behavior and statements that it’s “not released” while they’re looking at it advertising other people’s shops.

the reason i think for this is cuz the software is right now unreleased its the same has asking a dev how do i farm befor the farming system is even out in codeing and software things change all the time sim could chime in and say ok here is how you run the scanner with step by step points for shop onwers then the a day or 2 later turn around and say something completely different cuz in the time of testing found out that it just des not work or had to be redone

[Fallon]

@Nightstar

Get it to the point where a PS4 player in the back woods of a level1 planet can make the same effort and get the same service as “the portal seekers elders”. Get official wonderstruck (above board) approval.

The market doesn’t have to go to a shopkeeper, that’s not a reason to discount the mod.

And what does Wonderstruck have to approve it for? I guess I don’t get why they have to approve already-public info.

[Nightstar]

@anon42939288 I don’t know who you are or your involvement here but I thinkt he “unreleased” dev status vs the “live on official servers” actual reality is probably not worth hammering at much more.

@Fallon

The market doesn’t have to go to a shopkeeper, that’s not a reason to discount the mod.

The shopkeeper should be able to come to the market. That’s one of the biggest issues here at the moment.

@Fallon

And what does Wonderstruck have to approve it for? I guess I don’t get why they have to approve already-public info.

Ehhh man this is actually wonderstruck’s owned data. There is no API and it’s not offered to the public.

Wonderstruck has to approve this because it is broadcasting on their official game server and encouraging players to a third party site.

Also because it’s sniffing data and republishing steam, wonderstruck, turbulenz, I don’t even know know many separate companies have rights to, not only this data, but the network traffic being sniffed and parsed here.

I’m not claiming to be knowledgeable regarding THESE SPECIFIC contracts but asking questions being responded to as an attack is again, not a positive sign, or helpful in any way.

Again the other mods are either obviously useless/harmless and fun like the mapping tool, or at least not really published for only some players to use on the official forums and whatnot.

It’s cool to have a hobby. It’s great to share your work. But this is actual business.

[Fallon]

@Nightstar

I’m not claiming to be knowledgeable

Don’t worry, I didn’t assume you were. Just asking questions to understand your perspective… which I’m allowed to do, don’t attack me I’m squishy

[Simoyd]

@Nightstar

the only way I can give you a chance to respond is to make some assertions.

Wha… Lying is not the only way to communicate…

@Nightstar

let’s get the dev announcement

I mean it’s been at the top of the forum for 2 days straight. I feel like it’s gotten enough of an announcement. Also it’s not affiliated with boundless so I’m not sure why they would promote it.

@Nightstar

A wonderstruck representative can encourage people to register their boundless avatar/beacon name on your third party website along with of course all of the other data that entails and ask to be included at your discretion.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a game go to this extent to promote a mod. I can’t imaging wonderstruck will either.

@Nightstar

This really isn’t like the map tool or the meteor scanner mod. This tool will have a direct affect on the entire economy.

I’m very much looking forward to this change and personally believe it to be a very positive change overall.

@Nightstar

Why do you emphasize that you’re trying to do it “without wonderstruck involvement”?

because people complain about problems, but dont provide a solution other than an official API or in-game tool. Bottom line is wonderstruck is not involved with this tool, and I’m looking for ideas on how to improve it given that fact as a baseline. This site and client will be happening regardless of any player’s opinion. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to hear anyone’s opinion. People may still have better ideas than what I’ve thought of. I’m just informing you of the reality of how the future will be unfolding soon.

@Nightstar

You’\re really stating that the boundless devs explicitly approved you posting a live “shopping assistant” in the official discord with this dataset and no explanation to the users?

I don’t work for or speak for the devs. I don’t want to mis-communicate their perspective here. I did ask for permission to put the bot on the discord, but that doesn’t mean that wonderstruck recommends all their players should use it. It’s just a helpful tool that I feel COULD POSSIBLY be useful to a large number of people.

@Nightstar

No I love it when people take actions so ironic it becomes obvious they’re suffering from some cognitive dissonance.

It’s maybe dark humor but it’s no more toxic than ‘loving’ blooper videos or stupid memes lol

Besides the fact that this is directly insulting/flaming someone, are you’re saying communicating the desire to close the thread is ironic? can you elaborate on this, I’m confused. I don’t think falsely stating someone’s motivations means they have cognitive dissonance. I’m so confused sorry . It might be good to take a step back and re-read your stuff before you post. It sounds more like you’re trying to win an argument by any means necessary and less like you’re trying to help people.

[Simoyd]

@AeneaGames

should not make the first not so friendly remark

You might need to read up again. I think his comment raised a valid point, then you insulted him.

@AeneaGames

See did it again, making a remark about somone’s past remark

Doesn’t mean I’m hating on you tho!

I never said it was.

@AeneaGames

Sadly, that’s just my personality

Insulting people is not a personality type.

@AeneaGames

I do find it rather funny that this happened.

that… is insulting… laughing at someone for failing is insulting… It’s even more insulting if the failure is a lie.

@AeneaGames

Now stop going on about it will ya. I know this is your baby and all (the program, not Vansten!) but chill out a tad.

I will continue responding to you. And nothing you say will ever change that. Feel free to ask other people on this forum!

@AeneaGames

I told you were it was

@AeneaGames

I told you were it was, it’s even in your own db, but sure, here (copied from your db):

Coin Converters

Gellis
-152, 241, 67

So you know that I know that I have this data already. Which means there’s a misunderstanding between us that you are capable of identifying. A quick read up clearly shows that I asked for the coordinates of the specific shop-stand/basket that disappeared. I can repeat it here for you.

May I please have the specific coordinates of the shopstand/basket you feel was incorrectly removed so that I can investigate the specific shop-stand? I will not be reviewing every single shop-stand within 100 blocks of your shop. I don’t have time for that. I have no record of what changes you’ve made to your shop (if any). And I won’t need to care about changes to your shop if you give me the coordinates.

Again your response with information you’ve stated I already know comes off to me as a refusal to provide the correct information. I feel like you’re just trying to create chaos here and nothing else.

I’m happy to help if you provide the info, but if you continue not to, I will continue to let you know that the point you’ve made that depends on that issue is unfounded.

@AeneaGames

But only every 2 days! While shops where the owners can happily run the scanner themsselves will have up to date data…

Again. Let me know if you can think of a way to solve this issue without wonderstruck involvement. I’m happy to listen. Otherwise the tool/site will go up using the currently described functionality.

[AeneaGames]

@Simoyd

I told you were it was, it’s even in your own db, but sure, here (copied from your db):

Coin Converters

> Gellis
> -152, 241, 67

So you know that I know that I have this data already. Which means there’s a misunderstanding between us that you are capable of identifying. A quick read up clearly shows that I asked for the coordinates of the specific shop-stand/basket that disappeared. I can repeat it here for you.

May I please have the specific coordinates of the shopstand/basket you feel was incorrectly removed so that I can investigate the specific shop-stand? I will not be reviewing every single shop-stand within 100 blocks of your shop. I don’t have time for that. I have no record of what changes you’ve made to your shop (if any). And I won’t need to care about changes to your shop if you give me the coordinates.

Okay, now you’re taking the ■■■■!

The COORDINATES ARE THERE! Copied straight from your own website!

@Simoyd

And I won’t need to care about changes to your shop if you give me the coordinates.

Excuse me? What now? So you’re now fully admitting that you might omit data of some shops?

You got to be kidding me here!

@Simoyd

Insulting people is not a personality type.

Indeed, it’s not, I didn’t, clearly you are now tho…

@Simoyd

You might need to read up again. I think his comment raised a valid point, then you insulted him.

I didn’t insult him, I’m very surprised that you did not see his post to me as being toxic tho.

@Simoyd

that… is insulting… laughing at someone for failing is insulting… It’s even more insulting if the failure is a lie.

@Simoyd

that… is insulting… laughing at someone for failing is insulting… It’s even more insulting if the failure is a lie.

That is not insulting, clearly you have an odd definition of that.

What IS insulting tho is accusing me of lying while your own db is showing the truth…

I’m sorry Simoyd but you are way too defensive here, seeing things that aren’t there, making things bigger than they had to be. you’re also clearly not seeing the behaviour you are yourself showing in your replies which is a crying shame.

[Nightstar]

@Simoyd

Besides the fact that this is directly insulting/flaming someone, are you’re saying communicating the desire to close the thread is ironic? can you elaborate on this, I’m confused. I don’t think falsely stating someone’s motivations means they have cognitive dissonance. I’m so confused sorry . It might be good to take a step back and re-read your stuff before you post. It sounds more like you’re trying to win an argument by any means necessary and less like you’re trying to help people.

Thinking that the tool is so great that you just need to silence anyone with questions about it is wee bit of cognitive dissonance.

I’m not going to point by point the less personal parts of your post. It’s clear that wonderstruck can’t officially support this in it’s current state but it’s broadcasting onto official servers. I hope that somebody is looking into that.

Your stance and more aggressive comments clarify that this is,. in fact, economic extortion.

i haven’t found any point where I’ve made any factually false assertions here and I’ve pointed out several times that someone’s excitement can sometimes take their otherwise positive intent past the point of good sense.

But really here you (and other people who are currently publishing to the tool) are getting nasty again and again. More than one person probably needs a step back right now.