BoundlessTrade.Net ..... What do you think?

[Fallon]

@AeneaGames

And I also get that as a player with no shops that one might not be too worried about some slightly better prices of shops that are not in the database but I hope that people can understand that the owners of those not listed shops (or with 2 day old data) will be affected by this…

This is really not something to worry about. If an unlisted shopkeeper moves his or her stall to a spot that is conducive to getting scanned, the “problem” is solved. Is it too much to ask that if they don’t have a scanner client and want to sell, they move or connect a portal for someone else to scan them? It wouldn’t be for me, a 1x2 to someone’s hub is pretty cheap. I’m honestly asking because “it’s bad because a little guy might not sell stuff” seems like a weak basis not to use the site

[Simoyd]

Sorry for the huge reply :S. just catching up on the thread.

@AeneaGames

And BTW, I was talking about request baskets, my other shops somehow get ‘visited’ more often by someone using this client program…

I think there are way too many variables in play within the short period where this site has been live to make this conclusion.

@AeneaGames

If that one of 24c is full you go to the next highest, for 20c but skip mine altogether since it’s not on the website.

Someone will go to your shop once it’s scanned in 2 days. Regardless of PS4 or PC this will be the case. Any form of recording shop data in a crowd-sourced manner has this problem.

@AeneaGames

But what about all the other people out there who do not know it even exists? And/or are never visited often or at all by someone with the client?

That’s why I am against it in it’s current form…

If someone went around with an excel sheet and wrote down 50,000 shop stand prices and put it on the forum, many people would take that as a guide for a short time. In fact people have done this in their guilds in the past.

@crypticworlds

Her concerns are valid. Please don’t just try and sweep them under the rug as if they’re irrelevant. This kind of stuff is irritating and this community needs to learn to do it less often.

@AeneaGames

Thank you, these types of replies are infuriating and honestly really, really, really

@crypticworlds

nobody in this community really knows exactly how negative I feel about it.

I didn’t read Vansten’s post like this at all. waiting 2 days for your pixel coins isn’t the end of the world. You’re right the site deals in pixel coins too. But that doesn’t make your pixel coins more important that other people’s pixel coins.

In my opinion the reason why the CoC rules exist against shaming people is because communication is subjective and the shaming is not always true as it only has one perspective. A bunch of people piling up in a thread saying that Vansten’s comments are not valid is just as toxic as if he hypothetically trolling, which again I’m 99% sure he wasn’t.

@AeneaGames

I think the devs should step in, provide API’s to the data so it can be up to date and doesn’t need a client program at all, or better yet, they include it inside the game…

I agree but they’ve communicated to me that this is not a priority for them. You have to keep in mind that working on this means they aren’t working on something else. Although specific people may not like specific other features they’ve developed, they need to look at the big picture. I’m simply trying to fill a gap to improve the situation partially in the mean-time while the devs have not implemented such a feature. I think overall, even though this site has problems with stale orders, it is still highly beneficial to both shoppers and shop owners. Even if your shop never gets scanned, you still have a tool available to put your prices in the right ballpark.

@crypticworlds

hope that the devs really take a serious hard look at this mod

They are watching it for sure. They like various posts about it, they have mentioned it to me in DM, they have followed my youtube, etc.

@AeneaGames

Since the data can be, and apparently is, out of date!

Go ahead use an old fashioned phonebook from the 50’s and try to find my phone number.

The data is up to 3 days old, not 70 years…

@AeneaGames

So why does it exist if it can’t actually do the one thing it was set out to do?

The site was never meant to have up to date information on 100% of the market. And there’s certainly not only 1 purpose/use for the site. Many people have benefited from the site already. That’s why it exists, to help people.

@AeneaGames

Then why would anyone even want to use it?

Tell me, why do you want to use the website? Why do you want to use the client? To what purpose?

I use it to price check things. I use it to buy from sell orders and sell to buy orders when they overlap.

@AeneaGames

Sure, yeah, people are going to look at it and think “oh, there it’s 200c, I’l just still go run around to see if there’s one that’s cheaper because it’s just a guide that I’m looking at!”

That’s nonsense!

I mean I’ve already heard about this happening multiple times. People are buying from unlisted shopstands and selling to listed once and vice versa because of good shops they’ve found compared to listed prices. There’s still a reward for exploring.

@AeneaGames

Sorry but I do think most people are not doing that right now and not gonna do that in future, they will take the data as is and not go to all the trouble to still do the same things they used to do before the site was here and run around all the shops…

a lot of people won’t go through the trouble but some people will. I don’t understand how that situation as a whole is bad though.

@AeneaGames

FYI, my request baskets somehow have disappeared again! Well most of them anyways. Nice since they’ve been in there for a mere 6 hours now! Yay! such a great guide if you want to sell your massive stock of leaves for a good price

Fun fact: my test basket with inky for 100c per is still in there together with a handful of others

I know you’re aware this comment is toxic, so please refrain from calling other people toxic in the future. It’s possible there are still bugs. Can you tell me the exact coordinates of one or more shopstands that disappeared? I can review all changes on that shopstand and see what went wrong.

The client isn’t even released yet, and I expect to continue finding issues once it is. If you’re expecting it to be perfect today, then you are misguided.

@Flithor

mineral tracking cheating is can be done.

@DKPuncherello

Ooh man a mineral tracker…

@Mayumichi

I hope the game doesn’t send data for all hidden blocks, and judging by the behavior I get when out of sync with the server it seems to be true. So no block scanners.

@Mayumichi

so it doesn’t tell us if gem-seams for example could be scanned from the memory

All the blocks data is in various arrays in game memory including hidden blocks.

A block/gem scanner has been doable for a very long time and the devs don’t really seem to care:

Cheating and anti-cheating

yes, you could investigate locally cached chunk data, and this is not something we will work around without massively increasing network and cpu costs and changing a large part of the game (we wont do it), but you still have to manually mine the blocks of course, no magic break behind walls. but we dont really care too much about this, since the atlases already show you were the resources are too (not in so much exact detail, but still, not a big secret)

Bottom line is it doesn’t really provide a significant benefit over the atlas. But to be clear if you’re caught using something like this you would almost certainly be banned.

For the record so people don’t read this wrong, I don’t cheat mining.

@Nightstar

at the developer end it’s a recipe for subtle abuse, and outright manipulation

@Mayumichi

while in reality those baskets and stands are under the floor and nobody can use them

Even if it was up-to-date instantly people could still “abuse” the market in this way right? Maybe not as much but either way tricking someone into going to your request basket will not make them buy from you. A few fake stands/baskets with fake prices might make a few people change prices but it won’t cause everyone in the market to change.

@Nightstar

To be clear, all shop stands which were more than 24m from a portal seekers shopping hub portal on my build were excluded from the data currently being publicized.

When I was scanning I went through portals, scanned any shopstands I could find and went back through. It’s likely shoppers are also having the same issue with your shop as I did while scanning. Perhaps it might be worth thinking about updating the layout (or it’s also possible I’m just blind ^_^).

But you’re right. Scanning will not necessarily be consistent, but you can add some notes on you shop page on the site if you like and hopefully the people scanning will see it.

@Nightstar

if the official boundless discord advertises for some shops and not others without shop owners’ control or participation there’s going to be nothing but hard feelings, best case.

The shop owner does not have exclusive rights to their shop items/costs. Anyone in the game can go to their shop and see the price. Anyone can post that price on the internet recommending people to or not to go shop there.

@Nightstar

Creating a situation where it even slightly looks like sending traffic to Portal Seekers gets you advertised on Boundless Official channels - you guys see how this is NOT best case right?

I mean it’s good for PS if there are PS players scanning shops connected to PS hubs. Other guilds can advertise the same. I feel like I’m missing what you’re getting at here sorry :(. Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this?

@Mayumichi

flood the servers

That’s illegal, be careful

@Nightstar

saying it’s “not released” is distraction at best.

@AeneaGames

It is released already

The site is up but the client isn’t. I was trying to delay details about how the site and data work until I actually know myself how it’s all going to work. It’s not a distraction, I literally don’t know how everything will all work just yet. I’m getting closer now but I’ll have more complete information by this weekend I think.

@blastronaut

Can you try completely enclosing a request basket with solid blocks so that it isn’t accessible at all and see if it gets scanned?

@Mayumichi

But this tool most likely doesn’t scan if there’s a player-sized route to the basket/stand, so enclosing it probably works.

@AeneaGames

But I did do another test, there’s a nother inky basket on the market, paying 1000c per leaf, will see if that gets picked up!

It will indeed get scanned. again see above I don’t think it really matters and will probably get your shop boycotted by people who use the site. I think you’d only be hurting yourself.

@fidach

I know people use stands as storage

if you don’t set a price it won’t show up on the site. If you set it to some large price, people won’t see it as the cheapest. I don’t think storage affects this site.

@fidach

I’d much rather it was designed and controlled by the devs

Same, I would prefer complete up-to-date data over this too.

@FireAngelDth

Kinda surprised my store in the mall didn’t pop up.

Create an account on the site, add your shop with coordinates and travel details, then click request scan top right.

@AeneaGames

it’s showing inaccurate, incomplete and out of date data to people who do not realise it is doing that.

I think the good of this site far outweighs the insignificant corner case of whether some random guy cares if data is complete and simultaneously doesn’t read the disclaimer. The case definitely exists but I’m not even slightly worried about it.

@AeneaGames

This has nothing to do with ME

of course it does. otherwise you wouldn’t be here.

@AeneaGames

It’s really not that hard to grasp.

Empirically it is, otherwise people wouldn’t be debating it with you would they?

@AeneaGames

this one tho affects everyone no matter if you’re using it yourself or not…

I’ve played plenty of games with external buying/selling utilities for a long time without knowing they exist and had plenty of fun. Path of Exile comes to mind as an example. True they have some public APIs as well but it’s still not a UI built into the game. You have to use 3rd party sites to buy/sell stuff.

@uni3k

Using this site to set my prices i didnt aim to be the cheapest, but i still have regular customers and sales. Couldnt tell you if my stands are listed, and i dont care. I know my prices are fair, and people seem to like it. Thats all that matters.

Great to hear! This is the story I’ve got from most people so far. Getting things into the right ballpark means you can understand your supply and demand correctly and not overcharge popular items and lose your regulars. People don’t really want to go around and get the 1c cheapest price on everything. People like to have half a dozen shops they frequent that each specialize in a group of cheaper items to get everything they need as a whole. And they can confirm nobody is completely screwing them. This helps literally everyone, including the devs as the throughput increases because people are more confident with the prices and they can get better perspective on supply/demand in the game.

I could go on and on.

@AeneaGames

dislike the fact that you could’ve gotten a better deal when all data was accurate.

Your customers don’t need to save every 1-coin either. I don’t fly across the universe in eve to save a couple million, and people will still go to shops they like in Boundless.

@uni3k

If my shop suddenly gets 0 customers cause im not in this site then i’ll join you, but i really dont see that happening.

hitting the request scan button now and then helps too, just to help new people to learn about your shop, but like you’ve said I don’t think people will check prices every day. I think most people will use it to find some shops they like and then frequent those shops in the future.

[uni3k]

^ this…

people are gonna see what good prices are a few times, then go back to the shops that are close to that price, with range, stock, and convenice.

Its way to much effort to assume everyone would check every item every day.

[AeneaGames]

@Fallon

This is really not something to worry about. If an unlisted shopkeeper moves his or her stall to a spot that is conducive to getting scanned, the “problem” is solved. Is it too much to ask that if they don’t have a scanner client and want to sell, they move or connect a portal for someone else to scan them? It wouldn’t be for me, a 1x2 to someone’s hub is pretty cheap. I’m honestly asking because “it’s bad because a little guy might not sell stuff” seems like a weak basis not to use the site

The shops I was talking about are on New Leyden Market, the first row of shops is scanned more often than the other rows on same market. Those market stall owners can’t simply move their shop stands closer. To even suggest that seems ehmm, rather silly

[Simoyd]

@AeneaGames

The shops I was talking about are on New Leyden Market, the first row of shops is scanned more often than the other rows on same market. Those market stall owners can’t simply move their shop stands closer. To even suggest that seems ehmm, rather silly

Find a PC player in your guild. Once the client is released they can scan the market regularly. Alternatively click the request scan button on the site. Alternatively open a portal to biitula, grov te, lamblis, or boori PS hub.

Until the devs provide an in-game solution (which doesn’t exist right now). there are multiple options to solve this problem in a reasonable way. It’s not perfect for everyone but if you have a better solution (other than to not release it at all because that will never happen) then please let me know

EDIT: or ask that guy vansten that you were hating on before to do it. (who by the way has access to the scanner client TODAY)

[Vansten]

I know its a minor thing, but I plan to run the client myself once i can get it working properly, and since i have that one shop at the back of new leyden market, it will inadvertently scan everything as i walk by to it.

I know this doesn’t really alleviate your concerns, but i figured it was worth mentioning

[AeneaGames]

@Simoyd

I know you’re aware this comment is toxic, so please refrain from calling other people toxic in the future. It’s possible there are still bugs. Can you tell me the exact coordinates of one or more shopstands that disappeared? I can review all changes on that shopstand and see what went wrong.

I wasn’t gonna reply anymore, but why is this toxic? I had mentioned before that it took a while before they appeared again and then mentioning that they disappeared 6 hours later is somehow toxic? But Vansten’s reply to my about being salty is perfectly fine? Sjeesh!

As for the shop stands, there’s a whole market stall dedicated to baskets, only 5 of them were in the system. The other ones were there for a few hours so gotta wonder what happened.

Does the system BTW list empty (of coin) baskets as selling 0 or just doesn’t list them? Not that mine were empty of coin (1 or 2 were by that time, some were really close to being so).

[Fallon]

@AeneaGames

Those market stall owners can’t simply move their shop stands closer. To even suggest that seems ehmm, rather silly

My suggestion had 2 parts, and was addressing the non-issue in a general sense

[AeneaGames]

@Vansten

I know its a minor thing, but I plan to run the client myself once i can get it working properly, and since i have that one shop at the back of new leyden market, it will inadvertently scan everything as i walk by to it.

I know this doesn’t really alleviate your concerns, but i figured it was worth mentioning

Okay, that does help my shops and all the shops on the market, but my concern wasn’t just with my own shops tho, plenty of places that can be left out of it because no one is scanning it…

---

@Simoyd

Your customers don’t need to save every 1-coin either. I don’t fly across the universe in eve to save a couple million, and people will still go to shops they like in Boundless.

Again, if one’s shop isn’t in there AND/OR is showing inaccurate data and people then go to your shop less I do feel the shop owner is allowed to care about this…

I just don’t get why some of you here can’t see that.

But anyway, no bother replying to me in this thread anymore, I’m done, my opinion won’t change as much as the other people’s so I don’t see the point anymore.

[uacko]

Thank you Fuzzy and Simoyd for this amazing tool! It makes life as a customer and shop owner 1000x better. How does the phrase go? The perfect is the enemy of the good. This system gets us 90% of the benefit of what an API would. An API isn’t forthcoming soon, so I’m very happy you have made this.

[uni3k]

Wonder if removing the coordinates/specific shop details would solve all of this?

What if it was just indicative stock levels and prices, and you still actually had to explore in game to find things. Exploring other peoples creations is such a huge part of this game. Personally id prefer not have it handed to me, its way more fun finding that diamond in the rough yourself.

Im sure everyone has had that “this place is amazing” moment. Would question if this is likely to reduce them.

[Simoyd]

@AeneaGames

but why is this toxic?

Here, I’ve underlined each thing in your post that I refuse to believe you don’t know is toxic. It might have been easier for you to just re-read it yourself though. Asking me specifically to point it out puts me in a weird position I guess…

@AeneaGames

gotta wonder what happened.

me too. Again I’ve asked for the coordinates. Failure to provide them is evidence that you’re either lying or trolling. To be clear I don’t think you are and probably just missed the question but I am seriously confused why you’re debating this when I’ve clearly provided a path to determining the root cause and you are blocking that path.

@AeneaGames

Does the system BTW list empty (of coin) baskets as selling 0 or just doesn’t list them?

baskets with 0 coin or impossible to fit the item requested will not be listed. There are some complex situations with stacking where a basket will appear even though it’s technically “full”.

[Simoyd]

@AeneaGames

plenty of places that can be left out of it because no one is scanning it…

@AeneaGames

if one’s shop isn’t in there AND/OR is showing inaccurate data

I will still release the client. The site will remain up. There are 3 workarounds to this issue that I have provided above.

[Venom]

Didnt read a lot of the topic but took a look at the site. Good job to everyone involved. This will be a useful addition to the game imo. Just wish i could scan ps4 problems

[Simoyd]

@Venom

Didnt read a lot of the topic but took a look at the site. Good job to everyone involved. This will be a useful addition to the game imo. Just wish i could scan ps4 problems

Let your PS4 buddies know they can create a shop with coordinates and travel directions after making an account on the website, and they can click “request scan” in the top right and it’ll pop up in my discord for me to scan =D.

[FireAngelDth]

I actually have zero interest in being on there. I’m just shocked being as I’m store #86 and the mall gets heavy traffic figured someone would have walked by.

[Venom]

Oh very nice. Will do

[FireAngelDth]

That’s also assuming the people use the forums or discord to know of this service.

[Simoyd]

@FireAngelDth

I actually have zero interest in being on there. I’m just shocked being as I’m store #86 and the mall gets heavy traffic figured someone would have walked by.

I mean I have been running through gyosha mall (that’s what you mean right?)… I’ll be scanning again tonight so I’ll keep an eye out and see maybe there’s some hallway that I’m missing on my route.

[Blackmage2015]

Care to scan my shop