lol funny, because it seems alot ppl bought all available hammers in fear that hammers like these wont exist in the future
hahaha
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1x3 is not very good, its passable. Any aoe without damage isnt much better than a non aoe with dmg as well.
But naturally the more you can take at once the better why we use 3x3 with dmg
Not entirely true, cuz skills, brews can boost power. However there is nothing the helps with AOE effects beyond forge.
Indeed. This is something else I bet people haven’t put much thought into either. I was only able to stand Gem farming twice, to get 282 gems once, because I used a 3x3 hammer that could 1 shot T5 blocks. without needing potions, pies, or anything else but the hammer. If I needed more stuff? If the hammer wasn’t 3x3? If it took more than 1 hit? I would have hated it, and gave up and not done it.
The issue, I don’t think is that the game is balanced for 3x3 1 shotting hammers. The issue, is that those features have been in the game for so long, and people have in their mindset what the value, grind, worth, time investment and feeling of the game is based on that.
Then this update wants to remove that.
To put it into perspective, it’s like Playing Dark Souls for so long, then an update happens and suddenly every Shield in the game is Nerf’d so that there are no more 100% blocking shields anymore, and instead the highest shield is 1 end game shield that blocks only 75% of damage.
Instead of people making builds with dozens of 100% def shields, now that 1 shield is clearly the best, and people that liked the 100% blocking and had builds around them, no longer want to play the game.
It would be the same thing in this game. People have been so used to it, the economy, playstyle, and ‘grind’ has been defined by it. (Which is why the answer most people have for those that complain is ‘Save up 30k and buy a 3x3 Forged Gem Hammer.’). And now they are removing that.
This doesn’t just change Forging, it makes the game as a whole, and the grind in it, so much worse. For those at end game, nothing changes, so they don’t care. But those in low or mid tier, or new players, the game becomes 100 times harder. All in the name of ‘Balance’.
This is why I said to @Marrash to have them wipe the game. Wipe everything and force people to play right from lvl 1 all over again with this new change. And we will see, just how much people like this new ‘Change’ that the Devs wanted to add in. Because then it would effect everyone, and not just the new players, which it would drive away.
wipe is not an option, as we saw on the other thread where someone asked that hypothetical question for a whipe endet up with the most ppl (including me) would left the game 4ever.
well, and a dev stated that there will be no wipe ever, so i think we can rely on that.
i think it should be just possible to create silver or titan hammesr with like 3x1 aoes or damage and things, instead of removing old stuff they just could add a lower tier of all the forging items, a tier that is creatable just with items from tier 1-3 worlds.
maybe those items could never make a 3x3 effect, and not so much damage or have more chances for quircks or whatever.
so new players could start lower at the ladder to get up with forging, high end players can keep playing as they did
and also this would increase the chance for dedicated tools, ive running around allmost all the day scanning shops to find some titan hammers and shovels with 3x1 or 3x3, because i dont want to waste 20k worth gem tools on tier1-2 worlds.
it felt like there is no market for those lower tier forged tools, and the reason is: the efford in forging is actually higher than the efford in creating a gem tool.
so allmost nobody is creating titan or even silver/gold forged tools.
so to solve this: add a low tier forging item class that is very likely creating tunneler, random and 3x1 effects (in case of hammers/shovels/axes) and allmost dont can result in cross or 3x3. (just to use a sample, this should ofc apply to all effects) but the most important thing: make those items possible to get without the need to travel to t5 worlds and get oneshot as a level 30 player by some random hopper.
it should be possible to start very basic forging stuff without to visit any world that needs a protection, and without to run around 5 hours for forging a masscraft of those tools. and without having all skill points invested into forgery.
with this thing, players would maybe just forge themself some silver hammer a bit to oneshot on t3 or to have a small AOE on theyr iron hammer.
would bring more diversity into the tool market (because now its just 2 kinds of tools: anything not gem, forged gem).
Agree the quirks at the moment are at best defective defects lol. would love to see actual quirky behaviour, with some positive and some negative. this would mean sometimes daring to push up them quirk points as it might add a 4th mini-boon… random hookshot, accidental double-tap, vampire tools that lose % dmg but add a bit of health each use, cumilative energy drain until you rest the 5s to regen… things you can work around, cant depend on, but that dont break the tool.
5 Likes
It’s fine to edit the early forging and such. But who cares if Draining is strong. It’s also costly. Instead of making endgame forged tools harder to make and much more expensive, leave it alone. We don’t need things to be more difficult then it already is. I personally like endgame forging where it is. Early game forging like on iron tools are the only part that needs some work. And an earlier post said it perfectly. Give earlier tools a multiplier to what they do.
Like leave titanium and gem tools at 100%, but increase say, stone, iron, silver, and gold to higher amounts. Like Stone at 250% boosts, iron at 200, silver and 170, and gold at like 130. That way same materials would be easier for lower players to make strong tools of their level.
example: an iron tool would get double points into boons then a gem tool would.
2 Likes
Okay, I’m posting this after the changes have been at least temporarily cancelled. I think this was the right move and now it’s time to think about the Forge and what can be changed. I think there is a general consensus that Draining Compound + Vigour Catalyst are too good. They crowd out all other possibilities.
So, what’s the problem with the proposed changes? In my opinion, it is that it adds rng. As players we HATE rng, especially in the area of crafting. We want the items we make to be the result of our hard work and skill, not because we hit the jackpot on a slot machine. Every aspect of the current forging meta besides the raw power of Draining Compound and Vigour Catalyst is about reducing RNG. I think players will deal with a decrease in raw power much more readily than an increase in RNG. That’s why I think that rather than increasing the diversity of ingredients used in forging, People would just switch to Pure Boon Compound. I think people would rather have a rank 150 hammer that they can produce reliably then a rank 260 hammer that would include random quirks/defects.
The power difference between a hammer that includes quirks and defects would have to be dramatic before you’d start to have players willing to have them on their tools. What can be done then? I think to make people willing to forge items with quirks and defects, you have to reduce the rng involved. Here are a couple ways that might be done:
Expand the number if item slots on the forge: This would allow players room to include solvents, Deconstruction Resin, and other items that reduce the risk involved with quirks and defects while still having the items to help them get the boons they want.
New items: For instance a gum or paste that makes it so you choose from a small list when you roll a quirk or a boon rather then having it randomly assigned. Another similar idea would be to give the quirks and defects types and make gums that increase the chances of you rolling certain types of quirks and defects. Or a solvent that removes a quirk or defect and makes it so that one cannot be reapplied during the current forging session.
New Skills: More forging masteries could be added that help you better control your forging results. The current list of points you need to maximize your effectiveness as a forger is pretty low, and I think players would enjoy the opportunity to dive deeper into that spec. For instance: a mastery that lets you remove one defect of your choice when you set a tool or weapon.
The overall point here is that forging does probably need adjustment; and that adjustment should probably be an over-all nerf; but if you nerf it in a way that increases the sense of skill and control expressed in forging I think you will bring a lot more players along with you than the recently retracted set of changes that would increase the rng and slot-machine feeling of forging.
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My girlfriend posted a suggestion a while back about this.
Make the gums specifically based on the boons, and just make the gums very costly to craft. Remove RNG completely and just make it extremely material intensive. That way you make what you want, and it still costs time or money to make. Neither of us ever liked the RNG option. She would rage like mad when she would keep getting stupid glow boon, even after using the item to remove it. It’s really bad with Axe.
3 Likes
Just reduce the vigour and stability cost of boon removal solven, defect renoval solvent and quirk removal solvent and reduce materials needed. Then most of the changes could work.
If it has to be soon that is. If not i rather like some of my other suggestions.
Or remove the vigour and stability cost completely, and just increase the materials required to craft those solvents.
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Uuuhhh! I like it
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It would definitely improve the economy surrounding solvent materials. Make it so you can spam these solvents to get what you want, at the cost of materials. Would boost the desire for the materials through the roof as well, giving people more ways for gatherers to make money.
Only problem are those damn feathers!
They could remove those, or lower amount needed. And then increase the other materials greatly.
I only posted in another thread a few hours ago something very similar. It seems a lot of people are invested in this and that the Devs should perhaps hold a genuine suggestion thread for a week or so, and then maybe go to the polls and see what the community thinks, though Im not sure how they can engage the broader community and not just the regulars on the forum… Any Devs care to chime in @rossstephens @james
Honestly, the poll system on here is flawed. Only those who frequent the forums get to vote. I think we need a way to vote ingame.
A suggestion on this is adding a menu option for voting for features. Like say… earn 100 cubits for voting on a current poll avail, with there being a little thing on the top of the screen with a message “feature poll available. Please press “button” to vote and earn cubits.” or something like that. Make it so ALL players are involved instead of just those of us who frequent the forum.
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Totally agree
We do have to create an account to play though, so if there was perhaps a notification on game startup pointing people this way for a period to vote, that could help
Wow after reading the possible proposed changes to forging this seems incredibly ill fated. It does 2 things. First it gives the impression that forging is somehow easy and secondly that every single Forge is a total success with very high tier results. Frankly it takes a while to really learn how to consistently forge high quality items. And even with that RNG is still a factor that cripples or at times makes some forges completely useless. If this new system is implemented it will turn forging into an outright gamble. And worse yet and expensive one. Since the items used to forge equipment are more expensive that the items themselves. This is seriously going in the wrong direction real fast. For some reason the aim lately seems to be making the game as difficult as possible for those who already play and making things impossible for anyone who’s new. Simply put this would be a very unwelcomed change.
7 Likes